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Israeli commander: 'We rewrote the rules of war for Gaza' Watch

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    According to a report by the Independant, Israeli soldiers did not abide by the longstanding principles of engagement in last years war on Gaza, 'in order to minimise military casualties.'

    A high-ranking officer has acknowledged for the first time that the Israeli army went beyond its previous rules of engagement on the protection of civilian lives in order to minimise military casualties during last year's Gaza war, The Independent can reveal.


    The officer, who served as a commander during Operation Cast Lead, made it clear that he did not regard the longstanding principle of military conduct known as "means and intentions" – whereby a targeted suspect must have a weapon and show signs of intending to use it before being fired upon – as being applicable before calling in fire from drones and helicopters in Gaza last winter. A more junior officer who served at a brigade headquarters during the operation described the new policy – devised in part to avoid the heavy military casualties of the 2006 Lebanon war – as one of "literally zero risk to the soldiers".
    http://www.independent.co.uk/news/wo...a-1887627.html

    Is it just me or is more and more evidence beginning to come out of the atrocities that are reported to have happened last year in Gaza, which Israel always denies?
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    Who is this supposed 'high ranking officer'? What actual rank is he? Why should we take his opinion as anything more than the subjective comments from only one anonymous member of what is a rather large army? Why is this even in the news?
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    Shoot these military. They're even worse than the Americans.
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    Maybe the rules of engagement need to be changed. When the chances are that the enemy does not have a weapon that you can recognize (i.e hidden bomb under clothing) and is not wearing a uniform, it is sometimes difficult to know who to shoot and who not to shoot. Does this mean shooting civilians is okay? No. But it means that there are problems that need to be dealt with for the soldiers' safety.
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    (Original post by Squeegy)
    Maybe the rules of engagement need to be changed. When the chances are that the enemy does not have a weapon that you can recognize (i.e hidden bomb under clothing) and is not wearing a uniform, it is sometimes difficult to know who to shoot and who not to shoot. Does this mean shooting civilians is okay? No. But it means that there are problems that need to be dealt with for the soldiers' safety.
    How does this apply to Gaza though? If the Israeli soldiers weren't in residential areas in the first place, how would they be at risk from civilian suicide bombers, as you put it?
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    (Original post by FyreFight)
    Who is this supposed 'high ranking officer'? What actual rank is he? Why should we take his opinion as anything more than the subjective comments from only one anonymous member of what is a rather large army? Why is this even in the news?
    Why would a high-ranking Israeli officer jeopardise his career in the politically powerful IDF by giving his name away?

    There is still such a thing as journalistic integrity, you know, at least within the four decent newspapers we have left in this country.

    Anyway, the IDF is going downhill fast. I remember a special "Our World" report on the BBC a while back that looked at how the IDF was rapidly becoming more Orthodox Jewish. In the Gaza war, Rabbis were actually deployed on the front lines with combat units, despite the fact that the Israeli Army is meant to be staunchly secular and separate from the Jewish hegemony experienced in the rest of Israel. I find that far, far more worrying than the Israelis ignoring the rules of war, which, let's face it, the UK and US have also done in the past few years [Drone Attacks in Afghanistan/Pakistan? Prisoner abuses?]
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    (Original post by Straightpath)
    How does this apply to Gaza though? If the Israeli soldiers weren't in residential areas in the first place, how would they be at risk from civilian suicide bombers, as you put it?
    So Hamas can use civilian areas and therefore should be immune in these areas, free to be a bunch of terrorist pricks. Logic win.
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    (Original post by PeeWeeDan)
    So Hamas can use civilian areas and therefore should be immune in these areas, free to be a bunch of terrorist pricks. Logic win.
    And therefore this gives Israel the right to go into these areas and shoot at will?
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    (Original post by Straightpath)
    And therefore this gives Israel the right to go into these areas and shoot at will?
    It means we can't be blamed for operating in residential areas... thats the ground that Hamas is using - not our fault. And Israel has the best Civilian:combatant ratio for heavily dense areas including American and UK forces... so who the **** are you to judge?
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    Its still being referred to as a 'war'?
    Was more like a massacre upon a beseiged population.
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    (Original post by Aphotic Cosmos)
    Why would a high-ranking Israeli officer jeopardise his career in the politically powerful IDF by giving his name away?

    There is still such a thing as journalistic integrity, you know, at least within the four decent newspapers we have left in this country.
    Unless he's a flipping General, stating at the very least a rank would do little to even isolate who he was, let alone harm this man's career. As it stands there's every possibility that this is a run of the mill officer who's opinion means very little at all. Take this article with large helping of salt.

    As a side note, I don't remember Hamas respecting the principle of 'means and intentions' when they provocatively and deliberately fired rockets into Israeli homes with the intention of killing civilians.
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    (Original post by PeeWeeDan)
    It means we can't be blamed for operating in residential areas... thats the ground that Hamas is using - not our fault. And Israel has the best Civilian:combatant ratio for heavily dense areas including American and UK forces... so who the **** are you to judge?
    Where did you get this info from? And watch your language, I assume your no longer a little school kid swearing for attention.

    What do you have to say then about Isreal killing over 1000 civilians in its offense on Gaza. I swear Hamas have only killed about 10 Israeli civilians in how many years?
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    Oh, Israel is not complying with the rules of war and specifically targets civilians in their indiscriminate bombings to collectively punish all Palestinians, whilst stealing their land, depriving them of food, water (from their rivers) and blocking humanitarian including medical aid from reaching the oppressed people. :shock:

    No wait... this is not at all new news. :no:

    (Original post by Krakatoa)
    Its still being referred to as a 'war'?
    Was more like a massacre upon a beseiged population.
    Exactly. Hence the more appropriate: 'Gaza massacre' which Wikipedia etc. use.

    On another note; the audacity of some British Jews / pro-Israelis to defend something like this is utterly shocking to the very core. Even the most hardened people have enough humanitarian blood to speak out against the worst of evils, quite clearly civilian oppression, ethnic cleansing and apartheid (source: over 63 UN resolutions, Amnesty International, the BBC, Oxfam, Save the Children, the Goldstone report etc.) and anybody who denies this should hardly be called human in my eyes.
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    I agree with him. The rules were written before we had ever even comprehended that people could be such scumbags as to hide behind civilians. Why on earth is it the job of Israel to think about the lives of their attackers? That is their attackers job. Their tactic was to hide behind civilians in order to maximise Israeli casualties, the Israeli army just did what anyone with common sense would do given the same situation. Gaza is lucky they haven't been wiped off the face of the map, if I poke a bear and hide behind a child the bear will kill both of us.
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    (Original post by DJkG.1)
    Oh, Israel is not complying with the rules of war and specifically targets civilians in their indiscriminate bombings to collectively punish all Palestinians, whilst stealing their land, depriving them of food, water (from their rivers) and blocking humanitarian including medical aid from reaching the oppressed people.

    No wait... this is not at all new news.



    Exactly. Hence the more appropriate: 'Gaza massacre' which Wikipedia etc. use.

    On another note; the audacity of some British Jews / pro-Israelis to defend something like this is utterly shocking to the very core. Even the most hardened people have enough humanitarian blood to speak out against the worst of evils, quite clearly civilian oppression, ethnic cleansing and apartheid (source: over 63 UN resolutions, Amnesty International, the BBC, Oxfam, Save the Children, the Goldstone report etc.) and anybody who denies this should hardly be called human in my eyes.
    The rules of war aren't set in stone, they are ever evolving. Those rules were created after wars we had fought in, not before. They were not written with the comprehension that anyone would go out of their way to hide among civilians, they were written to stop forces going in with the specific intention of killing civilians. Muslims on here constantly defend their Muslim brothers deliberately attacking civilains because of Iraq, Palestine, and Afghanistan, yet when someone kills their civilians it is the biggest travesty in man kinds history. Whatever Muslims say it was the Jews holy site first, they won it through conquest and historical precedent, so what do they want us to do about it? Why don't all the Muslim neighbors just assimilate all of the Palestinians? Because it is in their favour to have Palestine in that situation.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I agree with him. The rules were written before we had ever even comprehended that people could be such scumbags as to hide behind civilians. Why on earth is it the job of Israel to think about the lives of their attackers? That is their attackers job. Their tactic was to hide behind civilians in order to maximise Israeli casualties, the Israeli army just did what anyone with common sense would do given the same situation. Gaza is lucky they haven't been wiped off the face of the map, if I poke a bear and hide behind a child the bear will kill both of us.
    You can ramble on and on with these weak arguments about Hamas hiding behind civilians, but the bottom line is how many civilians has Hamas killed compared to Israel?
    There is no way you can even begin to justify that.

    You're clearly an extremist, what do you mean 'Gaza is lucky they haven't been wiped off the face fo the map'? This statement alone from you says volumes about your motives, and your (non-existant) morals.
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    (Original post by PeeWeeDan)
    It means we can't be blamed for operating in residential areas... thats the ground that Hamas is using - not our fault. And Israel has the best Civilian:combatant ratio for heavily dense areas including American and UK forces... so who the **** are you to judge?
    The US and British forces are humanitarian, have spent billions and billions on trying to develop Afghanistan and Iraq, large civilian casualties only occur when they're absolutely desperate. Most civilian casualties in Iraq and Afghanistan are the result of the insurgents tactics not due to America bombing the **** out of every place with terrorists with no regard to the civilian population. In Gaza on the other hand, over 70% of the dead were civilian and only 30% were Hamas, Al-Quds etc. militants.

    The Red Cross, Amnesty, UN, Save the Children have all condemned Israeli actions as war crimes with the first three emphaising that civilians were purposely targeted and human shields were used. Your continual denial of the reports of these reputable, reliable organisations shows us just how desperate and lowly you are. By the way, all of the above say that phosphorous was used in civilian areas and hundreds of civilians were injured by it.
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    Precisely, so now all this 2 state solution ******** can end and Palestinians deal with Israelis the only way they know how.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    if I poke a bear and hide behind a child the bear will kill both of us.
    funny analogy:
    Israel = bear, child = civilian, adult(i presume) = Hamas

    bear always wins
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    Why do you take the word of these liars that the Hamas militants were taking shelter in schools? I bet they were taking shelter in the only flour mill in Gaza :rolleyes:

    Also, stop with the branding of the Hamas militants as "terrorists". Would you be a terrorist if an army invaded here and you stood up to fight them ?
 
 
 
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