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Israeli commander: 'We rewrote the rules of war for Gaza' watch

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    (Original post by JakePearson)
    There was an offer of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza made in 2000-2001, but it was rejected by the Palestinian leadership. Shows they hate Jews more than they love their own people - see the quote in my sig.
    OR they could just want their homes back :dontknow:.
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    (Original post by Straightpath)
    He may be so, but on this occasion seems to be quite spot on
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7814054.stm

    "It later reported that two well-known members of a Hamas rocket-launching cell had been among those killed at the school, naming them as Imad and Hassan Abu Askar."

    "Two unnamed residents who spoke to an Associated Press reporter by phone said a group of militants had been firing mortar shells from near the school."
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    (Original post by cardine92)
    OR they could just want their homes back :dontknow:.
    They'd get them! We offered the West Bank and Gaza!
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    (Original post by JakePearson)
    Cretins, eh?

    You say that they aren't terrorists for killing people for their political goal - this makes you a fool. You honestly think that Hamas are not terrorists?
    its useless tbh. theyre so deluded they will never accept it
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    (Original post by tom//)
    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/7814054.stm

    "It later reported that two well-known members of a Hamas rocket-launching cell had been among those killed at the school, naming them as Imad and Hassan Abu Askar."

    "Two unnamed residents who spoke to an Associated Press reporter by phone said a group of militants had been firing mortar shells from near the school."
    For all I know that could've been you. The fact that it was a UN school meant that it was run by UN personnel, who I'm sure would have ensured no Hamas fighters were on their site
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    (Original post by Straightpath)
    For all I know that could've been you. The fact that it was a UN school meant that it was run by UN personnel, who I'm sure would have ensured no Hamas fighters were on their site
    quite right

    http://www.channel4.com/news/article...aution/2924657

    "Local residents in the street told me that militants had been firing rockets - as the IDF claimed - and having been targeted in retaliatory fire by the IDF, they ran down the street past the school."
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    (Original post by tom//)
    its useless tbh. theyre so deluded they will never accept it
    I know, I know. And it's a shame. Hamas are responsible for the suffering of the Palestinian people - not Israel. It's also a shame that people on the other side of this argument are so deluded themselves to realise that.
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    (Original post by JakePearson)
    Honestly? Most of them, if not all. Living there is hell. I'd say the problem with Israel is the split between the secular and the religious Jews. The Jews most likely to reject two states are the ones that don't even recognise Israel, because it was created by man, not by God. These people are fools.

    There was an offer of a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza made in 2000-2001, but it was rejected by the Palestinian leadership. Shows they hate Jews more than they love their own people - see the quote in my sig.
    Oh, cool. The only reason I can think of them rejecting is because they might have had homes built and because Israel's have had large donations because of their success by their own people, whereas Palestine does not have the sufficient money to build or provide a home for every Palestinian kicked out of Israel or moved from a house.
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    (Original post by JakePearson)
    They'd get them! We offered the West Bank and Gaza!
    Why do they have to be "offered" anything? If weren't forced out of their homes to make way for Israeli settlements this wouldn't be a problem.

    This is the way I see it. My family has been living in our flat for over 30 years. Our upstairs neighbours are Irish too, and a book that none of our other neighbours have ever seen says that the plot of land our house is built on is the ancient homeland of the O'Reilly clan, plus my grandma used to live just down the road. We will claim it for Ireland, as well as all the surrounding houses because we need to move loads of Irish people in, all our neighbours can then live in the shed at the bottom of our garden.

    Suprisingly, our neighbours are pretty pissed off for taking their houses but we class this as racism because the British [even though our other neighbours are French, Canadian, Polish, Argentinian and Italian] treated the Irish like crap for hundreds of years, nothing to do with the fact that we took their homes. A few of them then procede to torment us, throw stuff at our house, generally try to scare the **** out of us. In retaliation and to protect ourselves, we then fence off the garden to stop them getting in and out, cut off their water supply and then set fire to the shed because that's where they must be keeping all the dog **** they keep leaving on our doorstep.

    Generously, we offer them ownership of the shed and an alley down the street but they refuse and insist on getting their homes back, must be because they hate us.
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    (Original post by jonjon123)
    Oh, cool. The only reason I can think of them rejecting is because they might have had homes built and because Israel's have had large donations because of their success by their own people, whereas Palestine does not have the sufficient money to build or provide a home for every Palestinian kicked out of Israel or moved from a house.
    Both sides were to blame, Israel for perhaps using dispraportinate force and hamas for shooting rockets specifically to kill israelis, the side you supports depends on your personal views on jews, israel, hamas...
    Also there is NO SUCH THING AS A PALESTINIAN!!! Look over history have you ever seen a COUNTRY called palestine, where the inhabitants are therefore called palestinians???? No you haven't!!!
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    (Original post by JakePearson)
    I've replied to the worst ones.

    Arab history, Israel's borders removed from public school textbooks

    You're criticising the textbooks of Israel? :rofl:

    In the two academic years 2000-2001 and 2001-2002, the Palestinian National Authority (PNA) introduced 58 new textbooks and two teachers' guides for grades 1,2,6,7 and 11. CMIP has conducted a comprehensive survey of these textbooks in order to determine how they relate to peace, tolerance, recognition and reconciliation according to criteria set by the international community.

    CMIP has found that the new PNA textbooks do not fulfill these criteria in educating to peace and reconciliation with Israel, but rather foster a multi-faceted rejection of its existence. The educational approach employed by the PNA does not reflect international standards as defined by UNESCO (see their criteria in the Introduction). The textbooks do not teach acceptance of Israel's existence on the national level, and instead of working to erase hateful stereotypes, the new PNA curriculum is instilling them into the next generation's consciousness.

    The concept of peace with Israel is not to be found anywhere in the Palestinian schoolbooks. The peace process between Israel and the Palestinians, based on the Oslo Accords, is not mentioned. They fail to teach the youth to see Israel as a neighbor with whom peaceful relations should be desired.

    Tolerance, both in a historical and a contemporary context, is addressed at length in the Palestinian textbooks. It is described as being based on Islam's traditional approach of "accepting the members of the monotheistic religions" and "respecting the People of the Book in their religion, property and ceremonies". However, in their examples, the textbooks refer only to tolerance between Moslems and Christians. The Jews are not mentioned.

    The Jewish connection to the Holy Land is confined to antiquity. From the Roman period onwards this Jewish link is ignored. The Jews' return to Palestine is described as "infiltration". Zionism is mentioned in a negative context only. The Jews are not "deserving" of Palestine. Hebrew is not considered one of the languages of the land.

    The State of Israel, a member state of the UN since 1949, is not recognized. It is referred to by substitute names such as the lands within the "green line", "interior" or "1948 lands". Its name does not appear on any map, nor do any towns, villages and projects (industries, harbors, railways, etc.) created and developed by Israel. Israel is presented as the usurper and occupier since its establishment in 1948.

    By contrast, the State of Palestine (Dawlat Filastin) is often referred to and its name appears with the official emblem of the Palestinian National Authority, on the cover and the front page of many textbooks. Palestine stretches from the Jordan River to the Mediterranean Sea and is exclusively Arab. The 5.5 million Jewish inhabitants are not counted.

    The maps that appear in the textbooks continue to disregard the existence of the State of Israel. In most cases no names are given at all. In other cases Israel's place on the map is marked "Palestine". There are several maps that delineate the contours of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip but do not name them. Areas located in the territory of Israel within its 1949 borders, such as the Negev, are presented as an integral part of Palestine. The Arab population of Israel is counted among the inhabitants of Palestine.

    Jerusalem is presented as belonging to the Palestinians alone, and as the capital of Palestine. Its central importance and holiness for the Jews are not mentioned, neither is the fact that the Jewish population constitutes the vast majority of its inhabitants.

    The holy places in Palestine are exclusively Muslim and Christian. There is no reference to Jewish holy places as such. Rather, they are presented as Muslim holy places that the Jews have attempted to Judaize, such as the "Tomb of the Patriarchs" in Hebron, "the Western Wall" a.k.a. "the Wailing Wall", in Jerusalem, and "Rachel's Tomb" in Bethlehem.

    There are a series of references to the liberation of Palestine, presented as a struggle against Israeli occupation. At times, the liberation from Israeli occupation points to the territories of the West Bank and the Gaza Strip occupied by Israel in 1967. Sometimes this expression refers to the territory of the State of Israel, within its 1949 borders. There is an explicit reference to the Israeli occupation of 1948 and another to the need to establish an independent Palestinian state on the entire national soil.

    The struggle for the liberation of Palestine is presented mainly as a military one. There is no direct support of terror in the textbooks, but the Feda'i and the Shahid are praised as the spearheads of this struggle. Palestinians hanged by British Mandate authorities for murders of Jewish civilians are presented as Shahids. Those arrested and jailed in Israeli jails for acts of terrorism against Israeli civilians are depicted as "prisoners of war". Jihad continues to be glorified and martyrdom is praised, with special attention given to the martyrs of Palestine.

    There is no attempt to encourage reconciliation with Israel. Israel is presented exclusively as inhumane and greedy. It has destroyed the Palestinian villages, driven them away, seized their lands and water, inflicted on them pain and loss, taken over their holy places. Israel is responsible for the obliteration of Palestinian Arab national identity, the crippling of Palestinian economy, and for social and ecological ills.

    Israel is accused of being responsible for the creation of the Palestinian refugee problem, with no consideration being given to the consequences of the Arab and Palestinian rejection of the 1947 UN Partition Plan. The solution to this problem presented in PNA textbooks is "the return of every refugee" to his former home, i.e. to the territory of the State of Israel within its 1949 borders.

    Although bilateral treaties and accords have determined the allocation of land and water between Israel and the Palestinians by mutual agreement, (The Israeli-Palestinian Agreement on the West Bank and the Gaza Strip, 1995, Article XI and Appendix I article 40,and the Israel-Jordan Peace Treaty 1994, Annex II.). Israel is accused of robbing the lands and waters from the Palestinians.

    Reference to the Jews is minimal. Although their historical connections to Palestine are mentioned, these references do not provide the pupils with at least a basic knowledge of Jews and Judaism, as one of the three monotheistic religions. Several of these references, however, contain negative generalizations attributing traits of trickery, greed and barbarity to the Jews, and insinuation that they do not keep agreements and treaties as Muslims do. Accusations of racial discrimination that were leveled against Israel in a textbook published in 1995 have since been removed (in 1996 and 2000).

    Inaccuracies in determining and presenting historical facts appear in several instances, particularly in the textbooks of Grade 7. For example, statements such as: "[Israeli] attempts at obliterating the artistic [Palestinian] heritage: Setting fire to the antique pulpit of Saladin in the al-Aqsa Mosque." (National Education, Grade 7, p. 55). "The Arab Jebusites built it [Jerusalem] five thousand years ago in that distinguished place and it has remained since that time a capital of Palestine during the ages." (Geography of Palestine, Grade 7, p. 77) are to be found in the textbooks, as well as the falsification of a stamp issued by the British Mandatory Government.

    The Palestinian textbooks use terminology that is associated with war and violence and is likely to create prejudice,misunderstanding and conflict, such as: "The demographic weapon" will play "a positive role in winning the Arab-Israeli conflict" (The Palestinian Society-Demographic Education, Grade 11 (2000), p. 29), and :"The coming of the Jewish throngs to Palestine continued until 1948 and their goal was taking over the Palestinian lands and then taking the original inhabitants' place after their expulsion or extermination." (National Education, Grade 7, p. 20)

    The tendency towards educating pupils to reject and delegitimize Israel that was prevalent in the PNA textbooks of 2000-2001 has not been addressed in the new textbooks. Instead, it appears to have gained impetus through instilling animosity and the implicit aspiration to replace the State of Israel with the State of Palestine.


    Unequal funding for Arab towns

    Arabs can move to Israeli towns. Simple. Nothing is stopping this! There should really be no Arab only or Jew only towns.

    Right of return for Jews only

    Again, there is no problem with this policy.

    Denial of family unification for Arabs

    Was repealed as it was unconstitutional. Told you the Israeli Supreme Court is the finest in the world.

    Limits on Arab growth

    Israel is not culling the Arab population, y'know. In this instance they are building towns for Jews. Personally I disagree.

    Confiscation of Arab Land for Jewish Use

    Instances few and far between, and usually for good reason.

    Plans to "Judaize" the Arab areas of the Galilee

    Like the plans to Arabise the Jewish areas such as Jericho?

    Limits on Land leased to Arabs

    This is silly, I agree.

    Restricted access to good jobs for Arabs

    Every Israeli is required to serve in the Army. Arabs can bail out if they want. Jews cannot. This is surely discrimination in favour of Arabs?

    Discrimination in public places

    ********.

    Discrimination at airports and train stations

    Because Arabs are more likely to blow planes, trains and automobiles up than Jews. Fact. It may be a sorry fact but it's true and has been proven through time.

    Israeli Anthem Discriminates

    HaTikvah discriminates against religious Jews too - there is no mention of God. It is an atheist anthem. Also, whilst we're at it, does the British God Save the Queen - discriminatory against republicans and atheists. And Muslims. And Jews. And Hindus....

    Israeli Flag Discriminates

    Shall I point you in the direction of Arab flags that have the symbol of Islam on it? Or Western flags with crosses? If they don't like the flag, they don't fly it. Simple.

    No Constitutional Protection for Minorities

    There's no constitutional protection because there is no constitution!

    Government leaders talk openly of expelling Arabs from Israel.

    Just as the PA wants to expel Jews from the face of the earth.

    Unequal Water Allocation

    We gave them 20 million more gallons of water than was agreed in the water treaty.
    Your responses are absolute w*nk, none of them answer the question and most of them have the mentality of "the terrorists did it, so should we"- well guess what that makes you terrorists themselves. I have since made a list of how the Israeli system of apartheid extends to the occupied territories (excluding the water which issue which I've mentioned already):

    Separate Road Systems and License Plates

    There is a separate system of roadways in the West Bank for Palestinians and for Israelis. The roadways for Israelis are built on Palestinian land. Palestinians have separate license plates, and must wait in long lines at checkpoints, while Israelis usually travel unhindered. Israel has proposed digging tunnels for Palestinians to travel underneath illegal Jewish settlements -- most of them built on confiscated land - to reach other Palestinian towns.

    http://www.btselem.org/English/Publi...dden_Roads.asp

    http://www.bethlehemmedia.net/featers/2007/feat342.htm

    Freedom of movement provided for Israelis, denied to Palestinians

    Jewish Israelis can travel freely in the West Bank. Palestinians are faced with more than 500 roadblocks and checkpoints, most of them between Palestinian towns and other Palestinian towns. In many cases, they are forced to leave their cars and walk through the checkpoint to take a taxi on the other side. In other cases, they are turned back or forced to wait on the side of the road for hours without explanation. This may affect people who are ill or women who are pregnant without exception for their conditions. Closures are often imposed on Palestinians, keeping them inside their own homes or villages for days.

    http://www.worldpress.org/Mideast/2548.cfm

    http://www.humanitarianinfo.org/opt/...sis0106_En.pdf

    http://www.iwps-pal.org/en/articles/article.php?id=997

    No Right of Return for Palestinians to West Bank

    Any person with one Jewish grandparent is allowed to move into the West Bank and settle on land taken from Palestinians. Yet Israel has refused to grant permanent visas to Palestinians living in other parts of the world who wish to return to the occupied territories of Palestine. Many business owners who returned to the West Bank after the Oslo Accords face the prospect of eviction, though they have families and children living in Palestine.

    http://www.democracynow.org/article..../01/18/1621247

    http://meretzusa.blogspot.com/2006/0...am-bahour.html

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5345752.stm

    Family Unification Denied for Palestinians, not for Jews.

    Tens of thousands of foreign nationals who are married to residents of the Palestinian territories occupied by Israel since 1967 are not allowed to live with their husbands or wives by the Israeli authorities. In virtually every other country in the world, there are procedures to allow such couples -- where one spouse is a foreign national -- to live together. On the other hand, Jewish settlers living in the occupied territories in violation of international law are allowed to live with their spouses regardless of the country of origin. On 22 March 2007 the Knesset extended for fifteen months the statute that prevents family unification of residents of East Jerusalem and citizens of Israel married to Palestinians who are residents of the West Bank or the Gaza Strip.

    http://www.btselem.org/English/OTA/

    http://www.amnestyusa.org/document.p...NGMDE150182007

    http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/keepwife.html

    Palestinians imprisoned in walled ghettos; Israelis live in beautiful settlements

    Israel is building walled ghettos in the West Bank to contain and imprison the Palestinian population. Barriers and fences separate Palestinians from their farmland and water resources, denying them the ability to sustain their families on land they have farmed for generations. Settlements for Jews only have been built and are being built on these Palestinian lands. Gaza has been turned into a huge open air prison surrounded by walls and gates. Goods and people are often blocked from leaving.

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/837695.html,

    http://www.peacenow.org.il/data/SIP_...les/9/2569.pdf

    http://www.btselem.org/English/Press...s/20050329.asp

    http://www.guengl.eu/showPage.jspID=...SSUE=0&POPUP=0

    Palestinian Villages used for IDF Training Exercises; Jewish settlements protected

    Israeli soldiers routinely raid Palestinian villages, often during the night. Residents are awakened, soldiers burst into their homes, and families are often made to stand outside in their nightclothes for hours. New information from soldiers confirms that some of these raids are merely training exercises for Israeli troops. Jewish settlements, on the other hand, are never subjected to army raids and are vigorously protected.

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/835090.html,

    http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7...302667,00.html

    Jewish settler violence often ignored; Palestinian violence vigorously pursued

    According to the Association for Civil Rights in Israel 2006 Annual Report attacks perpetrated by Jewish settlers against Palestinian residents are encouraged by the lax attitude displayed by the law enforcement authorities. This has been confirmed by members of the Christian Peacemaker Teams, Ecumenical Accompaniers, and the Israeli media. Palestinians who attack settlers illegally living on their land may be shot immediately or arrested.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4482211.stm

    http://www.fmep.org/analysis/article...west_bank.html

    http://daily.stanford.edu/article/20...stBankViolence

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/813228.html

    http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/814070.html

    http://www.eappi.org/eappiweb.nsf/li...9shepherd.html

    http://www.hrw.org/reports/2001/israel/hebron6-07.htm

    http://www.cpt.org/archives/2005/feb05/0010.html

    http://www.cpt.org/archives/2004/oct04/0010.html

    http://www.btselem.org/Download/2001...e_Rein_Eng.doc

    Proposed Ban on Israelis and Foreigners Transporting Palestinians
    (repealed after international pressure)


    A new Israeli law originally scheduled to take effect on January 19, 2007 would have made it illegal for any Israeli (including Palestinian Israelis) or any international visitor (including those with humanitarian agencies) to transport a Palestinian without a permit. Even a Palestinian woman in labor could not be driven to a hospital by an Israeli or a volunteer unless both had these permits. This would have severely limited Palestinians' freedom of movement even on Palestinian land within the West Bank. After months of pressure from human rights groups, this measure was repealed in March, 2007.

    http://www.iht.com/articles/ap/2006/...l_Road_Ban.php

    http://www.yesh-din.org/site/images/...ation-23Mar07-[eng].pdf,

    http://www.btselem.org/english/Freed..._Forbidden.asp

    Permits to expand Palestinian homes restricted

    Palestinians have great difficulty getting permits to expand their homes or to drill new water wells. Families who build on their own land without these permits can have their homes demolished at any time. At least 23,000 Palestinians have seen their homes destroyed by Israeli bulldozers in the past 6 years.

    http://www.unicef.org/oPt/oPt_Humani...tor_Jan_07.pdf

    http://www.amnestyusa.org/escr/files/israelot.pdf,

    http://www.un.org/unrwa/emergency/ap...005-appeal.pdf,

    http://www.rhr.israel.net/pdf/jerusa...fact_sheet.pdf,

    Access to Holy Sites Limited for Christians and Muslims

    Israel has built a ring of settlements primarily for Jews around Arab East Jerusalem, cutting it off from the rest of the West Bank. (See "Israelis Act to Encircle East Jerusalem Enclaves in Arab Areas, ….Consolidate Control," Washington Post, 2/7/05, p. A15). The Wall and the Checkpoints around these settlements make it very difficult for Christians and Muslims in the West Bank to worship in their holy places in Jerusalem. The city is sacred to people of three faiths and according to Israel's charter was to be maintained as an open and international city. Israel's wall in Bethlehem also prevents Christians and Muslims living in the area from visiting Rachel's Tomb and prevents Jerusalem Christians from worshiping at the Church of the Nativity.

    http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn...-2005Feb6.html

    http://www.wcc-coe.org/wcc/news/press/00/16feat-e.html

    http://mideastchristians.virtualacti...06/april06.htm

    http://www.palsolidarity.org/main/20...ened-in-aboud/

    http://www.wvi.org/wvi/archives/midd...tbank_gaza.htm

    Brutal Prison Conditions for Palestinians held in Israeli jails.

    Palestinian detainees are denied the same protections as Jewish prisoners. They are often denied access to an attorney and to family members, since they are taken into Israel to be imprisoned in violation of international law. Torture is often used against Palestinian prisoners and has been documented by the Public Committee Against Torture in Israel.

    http://www.stoptorture.org.il/eng/ba...nu=3&submenu=3

    http://www.state.gov/g/drl/rls/hrrpt/2003/27929.htm

    Restricted access for Palestinians to Jordan Valley; no restrictions for Jews

    Israel has confiscated most of the land in the Jordan Valley and has recently declared this area off limits to Palestinians without a special permit. Farmers and whole villages have lost their livelihoods as a result of being cut off from their farmland in the valley. Palestinians from Jericho are not allowed to visit relatives in the rest of the Jordan Valley, which is all occupied Palestinian land. Jews may travel freely throughout the area. The Jordan Valley comprises a third of the West Bank. Ehud Olmert has declared his intention to annex all of this region to Israel, making a Palestinian state impossible.

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/israel/Sto...709278,00.html

    http://www.btselem.org/English/Settl...dan_Valley.asp

    http://www.hindu.com/2006/02/09/stor...0904691400.htm


    Answer that.
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    (Original post by GK123)
    Also there is NO SUCH THING AS A PALESTINIAN!!! Look over history have you ever seen a COUNTRY called palestine, where the inhabitants are therefore called palestinians???? No you haven't!!!
    Yeah! You can't just go drawing lines on a map, pluck a name from a book and call it a country! :ninja:
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    (Original post by Samrout)
    I could pull the "I want proof card", but rather I implore you to not listen to the Israeli media or military spokesman, and make your own mind up.
    What about when Hamas leaders speak openly about it with pride?
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    (Original post by ch0c0h01ic)
    ...likewise Israel acts to protect its people from attacks - another circular argument.
    Last time I checked, taking others land does not protect from attack.
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    (Original post by JakePearson)
    They'd get them! We offered the West Bank and Gaza!
    I'm sorry, what masquerades as Gaza and the West Bank today in israeli terms is a pittance.

    Plus, even if you are to go the original 1947 partition plans, without looking at the prior claims to the land by palestinians who were already living there...a lot more was allotted for the Palestians than just the West Bank and Gaza...
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    (Original post by cardine92)
    Why do they have to be "offered" anything? If weren't forced out of their homes to make way for Israeli settlements this wouldn't be a problem.

    This is the way I see it. My family has been living in our flat for over 30 years. Our upstairs neighbours are Irish too, and a book that none of our other neighbours have ever seen says that the plot of land our house is built on is the ancient homeland of the O'Reilly clan, plus my grandma used to live just down the road. We will claim it for Ireland, as well as all the surrounding houses because we need to move loads of Irish people in, all our neighbours can then live in the shed at the bottom of our garden.

    Suprisingly, our neighbours are pretty pissed off for taking their houses but we class this as racism because the British [even though our other neighbours are French, Canadian, Polish, Argentinian and Italian] treated the Irish like crap for hundreds of years, nothing to do with the fact that we took their homes. A few of them then procede to torment us, throw stuff at our house, generally try to scare the **** out of us. In retaliation and to protect ourselves, we then fence off the garden to stop them getting in and out, cut off their water supply and then set fire to the shed because that's where they must be keeping all the dog **** they keep leaving on our doorstep.

    Generously, we offer them ownership of the shed and an alley down the street but they refuse and insist on getting their homes back, must be because they hate us.
    Exactly.

    I've made this analogy many times before. If I take control of your house, torture you and your family for 60+ years and offer you a corner of the back room in a peace-deal and you reject it because you want to fight for your home back - who is the morally righteous and virtuous one here? Me as the evil aggressor seeking temporary peace, or the oppressed family (who, thanks to me, have nothing more to lose) but who reject peace to fight for what is rightfully theirs?

    (Original post by JakePearson)
    Hamas are responsible for the suffering of the Palestinian people - not Israel.
    Go and tell the 1.5 million people that the army which indiscriminately carpet-bombed their land, not sparing hospitals, schools or flour-factories when they have the latest American technology in weaponry and could easily have avoided this, as well as cutting off their water supply from their own river and blocking humanitarian aid like the lowest form of humanity would do: that this army is not to blame.

    Show me any Palestinian who accepts this and I'll agree with you. :rolleyes:

    Israel is 100% to blame and I'm (not) sorry to say this but it is nothing more / less / other than a malignant and very dangerous tumour on God's green Earth.

    It's also a shame that people on the other side of this argument are so deluded themselves to realise that.
    :facepalm:

    Yes... we're deluded. Get a grip mate, you've been on this campaign for ages now and you're becoming increasingly pathetic post after post.

    (Original post by Rucklo)
    Last time I checked, taking others land does not protect from attack.
    No Rucklo.

    A book called "the Torah" promised them this land... thousands of years ago.

    Therefore they can kill everybody there to take it from them. :erm: Don't you see!
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    (Original post by george54)
    Justice?

    War is not like this. Not with the technology Israel has. They have laser-turrets that can target hamas rockets, they have laser guided missiles that still hammer into schools and hospitals, they have satellite surveillance and fighter jets than can bomb to within centimetres. Sniping children is not war. It is murder.
    This is indeed war, for the smart bombs are highly expensive and thus not eligible for every situation. They aren't 100% reliable either and they require intelligence of the whereabouts of the enemy. As I said it isn't always clear who's enemy and who's not when they aren't wearing uniforms or revealing their weapons, and when they are sitting in the middle of civilians.

    I don't think Israel was sniping children.
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    (Original post by DJkG.1)
    Go and tell the 1.5 million people that the army which indiscriminately carpet-bombed their land, not sparing hospitals, schools or flour-factories when they have the latest American technology in weaponry and could easily have avoided this
    you are very right, israelis could have avoided these locations... if the people who were attacking israel didnt run into them, or attack from locations very near them. if israel "carpet bombed" them, or even wanted to, the death toll would be a hell of a lot higher than it is now.
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    (Original post by DJkG.1)

    No Rucklo.

    A book called "the Torah" promised them this land... thousands of years ago.

    Therefore they can kill everybody there to take it from them. :erm: Don't you see!
    Eitherway, kicking people out of there homes is not the act of a civilised country.
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Updated: February 7, 2010
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