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    I disagree. The country needs immigrants. It just needs the right sort.
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    (Original post by mercifulinpain)
    the reason you need immigrants is because british youths are on the street and using up all the benefits they ca get.again a sitation of blaming immigrants for a poor work ethic and lack of skills amongs the british working classes
    A massive and completely unsubstantiated generalization about British youth. Nice one.:rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Howard)
    I disagree. The country needs immigrants. It just needs the right sort.
    I completely agree.
    Immigrants should be able to fluently speak and understand English. They should also be highly educated, experienced and/or wealthy.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    I completely agree.
    Immigrants should be able to fluently speak and understand English. They should also be highly educated, experienced and/or wealthy.
    That's a common sense approach to immigration.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    That is a silly comment.
    There are many factors that prevent people leaving whether that is dependents, financial reasons or tonnes of other factors.


    .
    Have you considered some people are deluded enough to want to live in cities with high population densities?

    (Original post by Teaddict)
    I am not sure they keep those kind of statistics, however, what can be said is this. Whenever I talk to people (canvassing or otherwise) immigration is a big issue. They always comment about how many foreigners live in the town now and how many of their friends left because of it.

    Now, that is not proof, and it may not be true. But, the perception is almost as bad as the reality. Aside from that, on a national level, immigration needs to be tackled head on.
    How do you know the foriegners you see are not tourists?
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    I completely agree.
    Immigrants should be able to fluently speak and understand English. They should also be highly educated, experienced and/or wealthy.
    And good looking as well. We got enough ugly people in this country already without more mirror busters coming here. If they are ugly when they turn up at the airport, customs should send them back until they've had plastic surgery to look better.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    And good looking as well. We got enough ugly people in this country already without more mirror busters coming here. If they are ugly when they turn up at the airport, customs should send them back until they've had plastic surgery to look better.
    Silly comments like that don't improve your argument.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    Silly comments like that don't improve your argument.
    Your arguments certainly could do with improving.
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    OP: Are you insane?
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    (Original post by sconzey)
    OP: Are you insane?
    I don't have an economics degree, and have never heard of that book (never mind read it), but skimming over that page really just confirms (or agrees with) what I've always believed. It just seemed like common sense to me; I mean the world's population has increased so much the last century, and living standards have too. Specifically in the last half century, both measures were massively boosted.

    But yea that looks like an interesting book. I'll have to check it out.
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    People asserting that people are somehow forced to live in crowded cities is just dumb. Some of the richest and most intelligent people choose to live in densely populated cities like London and Tokyo as well as millions of ordinary people.

    Its simply hubris to assume that these people need to be "liberated" from some sort of imprisonment when they could easily afford to live elsewhere if they choose and can afford. I bet them a penny to a pound that they have never talked to these poor "prisoners" about being "freed" from their "prison".

    It shows how lame their "overcrowded" arguement is for halting immigration. If they do have any better arguements, now is the time to roll them out.
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    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    Really? But does that principle hold untrammelled in every case, are you going to say the same thing with regard to the disputes between Israel and Palestine?
    To the extent that was people buying land from willing sellers, yes certainly.

    I think your statement is a huge oversimplification and generalisation. Once again, to make anyone who objects to mass immigration look "unreasonable" "racist" "xenophobic" etc etc
    They are unreasonable. Racist, not so much, since usually they apply this nonsense to white people as well. Nationalist, maybe.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    People asserting that people are somehow forced to live in crowded cities is just dumb. Some of the richest and most intelligent people choose to live in densely populated cities like London and Tokyo as well as millions of ordinary people.
    and yet some detest over crowding and hence why they move. Some, due to a number of reasons, are unable to move.


    It shows how lame their "overcrowded" arguement is for halting immigration.
    Overcrowding in itself is a problem not including all the other problems that come as a result of it.
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    and yet some detest over crowding and hence why they move. Some, due to a number of reasons, are unable to move.

    .
    I suppose some people can't move because of their job or family commitments but most people like living in cities. My sister moved to London because she likes the cafes and shops and can find a job easily.

    If cities are so awful, why are some parts of central London like Mayfair and Convent Garden some of the most expensive places to live in the world? If people did not want to live there, they would be deserted or very cheap. If your assertion is correct, then people who could leave cities would. Are you saying multi-millionaires, pop stars and wealthy actors who live in Mayfair can't afford to live in the country if they wanted to?

    What about the people in rural areas who want to move to cities for jobs but can't because they can't afford to live in cities. Why are you ignoring them?

    (Original post by Teaddict)

    Overcrowding in itself is a problem not including all the other problems that come as a result of it.
    What other "problems"?
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    (Original post by Maker)
    If cities are so awful, why are some parts of central London like Mayfair and Convent Garden some of the most expensive places to live in the world?
    Places like Mayfair are not overcrowded multicultural wastelands.
    I use the term wasteland because I dislike London and hate visiting London.

    If your assertion is correct, then people who could leave cities would.
    I didn't say everyone.
    I said how is it fair on those that cannot choose?
    What about the people in rural areas who want to move to cities for jobs but can't because they can't afford to live in cities. Why are you ignoring them?
    From what I can tell, the majority of the rural community are wealthy or middle class. They choose to live there.

    One in five people in rural communities are in "poverty" defined as a salary below 60% of the UK average, or are so vulnerable that they might as well be in poverty.

    So, the these individuals cannot hold a decent lifestyle in the country, I doubt they could move to the city even if they wanted to.

    Also these cities would be less expensive if less people lived there -_-
    So if we de-crowd these cities, the rural people can afford to move there... Good plan.


    What other "problems"?[/quote]
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    (Original post by Teaddict)
    Places like Mayfair are not overcrowded multicultural wastelands.
    I use the term wasteland because I dislike London and hate visiting London.



    I didn't say everyone.
    I said how is it fair on those that cannot choose?


    From what I can tell, the majority of the rural community are wealthy or middle class. They choose to live there.

    One in five people in rural communities are in "poverty" defined as a salary below 60% of the UK average, or are so vulnerable that they might as well be in poverty.

    So, the these individuals cannot hold a decent lifestyle in the country, I doubt they could move to the city even if they wanted to.

    Also these cities would be less expensive if less people lived there -_-
    So if we de-crowd these cities, the rural people can afford to move there... Good plan.


    What other "problems"?
    [/QUOTE]


    Your arguements seem to get less and less realistic the more you try to elaborate on them.

    For example, you claim cities are overcrowded but can't provide evidence to support it. Basic economics of supply and demand shows that people prefer to live in cities and are prepared to pay a lot for it. Even a small flat in london costs more than a big house in a provincial town so London must be more desirable than the provinces and people living in London could sell up and use the money to move to the provinces if they wish.

    Do you know how many people in cities want to move to lower population density locations but can't afford to or have other reasons?

    Another basic of economics is if there are less people living in cities, then the cost of living there will be less and more people could afford to move there so prices will go up and we get to the same situation as now.
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    (Original post by Maker)
    For example, you claim cities are overcrowded but can't provide evidence to support it. Basic economics of supply and demand shows that people prefer to live in cities and are prepared to pay a lot for it. Even a small flat in london costs more than a big house in a provincial town so London must be more desirable than the provinces and people living in London could sell up and use the money to move to the provinces if they wish.
    England is over crowded. I have provided the statistics.
    The Cities are over crowded - That is blatantly obvious.

    I also said some people do not want to live in over crowded multicultural wastelands. Why should they be forced to uproot because the Government is incompetent?

    London is horrid.


    Another basic of economics is if there are less people living in cities, then the cost of living there will be less and more people could afford to move there so prices will go up and we get to the same situation as now
    They could afford to move to the uncrowded city. If it becomes crowded, they would then have the assets to move if they dislike the over crowded city.


    This whole argument has moved away from the overall point that

    1/ England is significantly over crowded
    2/ Too many immigrants are coming in
    3/ It is not sustainable
    4/ Our system needs tightening now.
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    (Original post by Hy~)
    But yea that looks like an interesting book. I'll have to check it out.
    It's an ancient debate, from Malthus and Godwin in the 17th century, to Ehrlich and Simon today. The Ehlich-Simon wager is particularly interesting.
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    I think overcrowding is a strawman so that Teaddict and his ilk can removed so-called "undesirables". I live in central Cardiff and would never call it overcrowded, plus whole sections of town would be deserted if we removed the ethnic minorities. I prefer my Cardiff full to it being empty. The message to Teaddict, as it should be to anyone else, is if you don't like it, don't live here!
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    (Original post by Carl)
    I think overcrowding is a strawman so that Teaddict and his ilk can removed so-called "undesirables". I live in central Cardiff and would never call it overcrowded, plus whole sections of town would be deserted if we removed the ethnic minorities. I prefer my Cardiff full to it being empty. The message to Teaddict, as it should be to anyone else, is if you don't like it, don't live here!
    ENGLAND is over crowded. I am not great at geography, but I am sure Cardiff wasn't in England.

    Why should I be forced to leave my country just because the Government cannot control immigration? Sorry but I don't accept that at all.
 
 
 
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