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St Andrews University: A Warning

JB Johnstone

I do love St Andrews (the place) and I'm sure I'll love the uni too - everything described in this thread appeals to me greatly.
One thing has been bugging me though - if StA (place/uni) is so great then why isn't it bigger?

The university has expanded massively over the last few years, compounding the accommodation problems and high rents.

If I remember rightly the university library was designed for a student population of 3000, hence the battle to get a seat.

Reply 261

JB Johnstone

wild_quinine

Would you prefer to see your favourite band in a stadium, or an intimate local venue? More people proves nothing.

(Although, to kill the metaphor, if you want to see your favourite band in any setting, St. Andrews is probably not your best bet).

I agree with what you're saying, and the size of StA is perfect for me. I just assumed that because of the uni especially more people would have flocked to it in the last 500 years or so.

Reply 262

dragon500uk

13

They have, most of them get turned away though because well - the university can only accomodate so many people and expanding is expensive.

Reply 263

VicLat

I seriously can't believe what people are saying about this place. I'm a second year and having the time of my life. The lack of shopping and clubs is really not a problem for me, if you're that desperate for these things Dundee is only a bus trip away. And it's not like without clubs St Andrews students are locked away sober, there are PLENTY of house parties and and bars to go to. The traditions here are fantastic, most including a vast amount of alcohol. And yes, this place is small, but didn't you know this before coming? Seems ridiculous that you're shocked by this.

As for the academic side, I think that it's great that there's such flexibility in the first 2 years, and that you can do things that you don't often get the chance to do, like learn Arabic or Russian. And for my degree subject, my lecturers and tutors have all been fantastic. It's a shame that you found this place so dire in terms of adacemia

St Andrews is great and you meet great people from all over the world. Don't be so closed minded as to only apply to places where the clubs are great, it isn't what university is about.

Reply 264

mindforgedmanacles

I felt really compelled to reply after reading a bunch of posts which are just shockers to say the least! Obviously no place can be perfect for everyone and the initial rant is justfied to an extent but I really feel the need to argue St. Andrew's corner! I have moved 5 times and lived across the UK in both big cities and small towns and living in St. Andrews is the most at home I have ever felt anywhere. The town is beautiful and enriched historically, geographically and culturally.

I love a good night out and the lack of clubs is dissapointing but I have never felt bored once since moving here. St. Andrews is the best night out I have ever had and there is ALWAYS something going on. I genuinely love 'the bop' (union dance) and The Lizard (small club) and if you do fancy going to a bigger club Dundee is a short bus ride and 7 quid transport and entry to Fat Sams on a Wednesday.
As for the lack of shops-???? People who think St. Andrews lags in the retail department have no idea what it's like to live in a small settlement clearly! Apart from a lack of high street clothing stores (there is still quite a lot - New Look, Monsoon, Fat Face, Superdry, Jack Wills and Tresspass just of the top of my head) there is an abundance of every time of shop you could ever need. And Dundee, although a pretty scabby city, is FANTASTIC for shopping.

Having a smaller student body means you will always bump into people you know on a night out which is great! However saying that there are 8000 of us! And unless your social skills are off the charts I doubt you're going to run out of people to meet!. St. Andrews is not simply a place to live, it's a HOME and the students run this place; would a town run by students ever really be boring, seriously?? Coming here was the best decision of my life, I've visited other friends uni's and accomadations and cannot believe how much better St. Andrews is; our halls are full of life and spirit. I have never met a single person who doesn't like it here - I was unsure about the size too before coming but it has never been a problem. Most people will spend the rest of their life in a city so 4 years living in this unique and amazing town, where everyone can feel like they are significant, may just be the best 4 years of your life.

And from my experience St. Andrews is as academic as the papers say - I have met sooooo many ridiculously intelligant people. We work hard and play hard.
And there are walking and hiking clubs that go to the Highlands yes :smile:

Reply 265

limetang

19

One amusing thing about this is almost all the negative points listed for me seem to be possitives.

Not many people, great it means I'll get to know people better, quality not quantity after all, No nightclubs, thats fine with me I never really liked them anyway, No shopping centre, I got sick of them years ago.

I dont need to go on as I'm sure you get my point.

Oh and one more thing, I'm Sick to death of living in a city, I'd love to move away for at least a few years, because like someone said, odds are I'm going to be living in a city for most of my life anyway, so getting away from that for a few years can hardly be a bad thing.

Reply 266

JB Johnstone

limetang

One amusing thing about this is almost all the negative points listed for me seem to be possitives.

Not many people, great it means I'll get to know people better, quality not quantity after all, No nightclubs, thats fine with me I never really liked them anyway, No shopping centre, I got sick of them years ago.

I dont need to go on as I'm sure you get my point.

Oh and one more thing, I'm Sick to death of living in a city, I'd love to move away for at least a few years, because like someone said, odds are I'm going to be living in a city for most of my life anyway, so getting away from that for a few years can hardly be a bad thing.

I've lived in a small town in the highlands of Scotland for the last five years and you're right, it is great. Everyone's really friendly like a proper little community, and just being here purifies the soul. It's the perfect sort of place to spend 4/5 years studying, imo. Much better than an overrated city, imo.

Reply 267

knoxy

Yes I agree about the lack of clubs, though as has already been said- people make their own fun. Join societies, go to balls, university events and you'll have a great time. I know that if there were London style clubs here as well, I would get zilch work done. If you make an effort when you first arrive, St Andrews has a truly great social setting. A great dynamic mix of people from all around the world, it is difficult not to fit in.

And yes, league tables or not, St Andrews is without doubt a great career boost (determined naturally by subject etc)

Reply 268

Smashthemirror

6

I have to warn you my good fellow, I was perambulating round campus for the open day when I was accosted by a group of unsavoury gentleman. These brutes told me in no uncertain terms I was "having a f%*£%g laugh" and precoded to land upon me a good few blows. To make matters worse, whilst I was stricken low, the swine proceeded to loose their alsatian upon my person. It was then the leader of these ruffians then pointed towards a large piece of scaffolding he was holding, to which he informed me I would be "f*£$£"g getting it" if I were to continue to frequent the premises

In addition to this, officers of the constabulary, upon espying my lacoste track-suit and bloody visage, apprehended under the delusion that I was a miscreant! I informed the arresting officer he was indeed very f%*£%(g mistaken and that I was merely here for a psychology degree but unfortunately I was stricken over the coupon by a extendible baton and bossed into a holding cell for the evening.

Reply 269

ViewlessWings

is anyone here a postgrad at St Andrews? While I understand that the concern for clubbing venues is important for the complete undergrad experience, I feel that as a future postgrad student, I am not getting a complete description of how it is for postgrads. Is there anyone that can relay a postgrad experience at St Andrews? Thanks.

Reply 270

rhod's_cat

Oh Christ you (the OP) sound like a spoiled brat.

Umiisadorable

O.K, academically, the university has a very strong reputation which in my opinion, isn't entirely justified; having been to a private school since the age of 12, I have actually been relatively unimpressed by some of the teaching standards here at St Andrews especially in the first two years which do not actually count towards the rest of the degree. So essentially, two out of the four years you'll spend here, unless you are actually studing medicine are a complete waste and count for nothing, and some of the tutors in the Arts honours degree are simply postgraduate students whose tutorial sessions are completely redundant and useless and essentially function as a means of checking that you've simply read the pointless articles and snippets set. The point is that St Andrews has a strong reputation primarily because it is an OLD university- the oldest in Scotland in fact, which is why its regarded so highly- so don't be fooled as I was into believe that it is truly anything special.

I applied to unis in St Andrews, Edinburgh and London – keep in mind this was a few years ago so there would have been less to do than what you’ve got now. Got into all three, but decided on St Andrews because it’s a nice town and had a bit of personality. Could NOT be bothered with living in London, despite the fact my dad offered to buy a flat there so I wouldn’t have to stay the poky little halls I’d heard UCL stuffs you into! Oh, and btw, since you made such a point to enlighten us about your “private school” education…I was privately educated from the age of six – private prep school from the age of six to 15, Swiss boarding school from 15-17 (so I have A Levels, SATs, APs and I did the French Bac) and back to private prep school for my final year of high school.

Yes, there were aspects of the teaching at St Andrews that left something to be desired – but that’s the way it is in ALL universities. I’ve got friends from high school who went on to study at Oxford, Cambridge, Harvard and Yale - and they’ve had a moan about stuff as well! Whether you’re in the best uni or the worst, there will always be something to complain about if you look for it.

As opposed to some universities, where your choice of electives is limited, at St Andrews we were allowed to take any electives as long as they didn’t clash with your major. So in first year, I came in to read German, French and International Relations…but took an elective in History of Art. Absolutely LOVED it, so switched from Modern Languages to AH in second year. I didn’t really enjoy the French department, but not out of any issue with the department or the teaching – the reason I decided to switch was because I am langue maternelle, and the standards in the UK for studying French at university level are different to back home (I’ve a friend who read French at Cambridge who had the same issue. It’s not that the teaching is bad, it’s that people are not expected to have as high a level of French as they would in a country where it is the first language).

I think it’s a great idea to let first and second year students have a choice, because what you apply to study when you’re 18 and in high school may not be what you ultimately want to do when you’re a bit older. I know a few folk at uni who applied to do a course because it was what they excelled in at school – found out they had interests elsewhere and luckily, at St Andrews you get the opportunity to try other subjects until you find the one that’s right for you. I’ve friends at Edinburgh uni who were only allowed to take electives within a smalls selection their department had approved – I don’t know if this is the case with all depts. at Edinburgh however.

As for your claim that the first two years count for nothing, I have to ask – what on earth are YOU studying? In every college (Arts, Sciences AND Divinity) at St Andrews, to get into honours in third year you need to have grades over a certain mark. I can’t remember exactly, but I think it was about the 12 mark (out of 20). A pass was around 5, and it’s relatively easy to scrape by with a 5 but you wouldn’t get very far! I think a 17 was considered an “A”. So yes, you *could* try to coast by aiming only to get a pass in your courses for first and second year, but you’re likely to find yourself unable to get into your course at honours level. I think for AH the conditions for honours were 3 out of 4 grades above 12 in your first 4 semesters (terms). So you’re talking absolute rubbish, your first two years DO count. Maybe not in the oversimplified way you seem to think of things, but if you slack off you won’t get into your honours course – so yes, that WOULD be wasting 2 years.
As for the tutorials being taken by Postgrads – St Andrews is NOT the only top ranking university that does this. I have friends who were doing Postgrads in SocAnth, and they took the tutorials pertaining to or relevant to their speciality – you seem to think Postgrads are given a group of first or second years at random, when this is far from the truth. Also you seem to forget tutorials are a place for discussion – YOU are meant to look at the relevant material and share coherent thoughts with your peers. You seem to have a problem differentiating between TUTORIALS and LECTURES.

Now, to the most significant part of my article- the place itself is hopeless. Its like a tiny, picturesque little prison with no clubs, and a very limited amount of shops and NO SHOPPING CENTRE whatsoever. People really skim over that fact when talking about this place as if it doesn’t matter, but its important because it becomes maddening- even for people who claim to adore the place, the fact that the highstreet has basically very few shops is a drag, as is the standard and quality of the so-called 'nightlife'. As I stated there are NO CLUBS just tiny crowded pubs with embarrassingly little space that attempt to mould themselves into clubs, but have 'dancefloors' the size of a small bedroom and play awful music. Students BEHAVE as though they are enjoying themselves thoroughly, getting dressed up to stand around in grotty pubs and drink, but they’re either very sad or pretending, honestly, because there's never any space and ALL VENUES SHUT AT ONE O CLOCk in the morning. I'm not kidding. So people leave their little dorms at 11 to come back two hours later drunk and say they've had a great night. It’s very, very sad. If leaving the Union at 1 in the morning after spending your time in there listening to the same terrible music in a tiny box of a room sounds fun then perhaps not, but people behave as if they're SO excited for absolutely no reason at all because there is nothing to get excited about. I love going out, but going out here is not what i call going out because all you're doing is going to one of the pubs next to Tesco to the Union which are all five minutes away from each other because the place is so ridiculously, pathetically small.
It is a beautiful place if you like castles and rabbits, and there is a gorgeous beahc although its only really ‘usable’ for one moth over the two Semesters and the fact that it is as small as it is ruins things, because instead of being able as you should in a city or a larger town, to escape to the centre for an afternoon just to relax or go somewhere a little different with friends- here there is no 'centre' to escape to, and So little to do its incredibly claustrophobic.

The centre of town consists of three streets with tiny little shops and a few banks, like the bare minimum you would expect from an underdeveloped borough in London. There’s Dundee to go to which is 25 minutes away on a bus, but that in itself is actually a very dismal place with a few half decent shops although it does have a few clubs, which are the only saving grace of the place- I’ve been a few times and the clubs are actually good there which is a plus, but the cab fare to get there and back is 60 pounds- you know why? Because of the terrible transport system which means that there are no such thing as night buses here and so you HAVE to take a cab if going out to Dundee later than midnight- it’s things like that which bother me, because even ATTEMPTING to have fun is hard work here.

As for there being nothing to do – when I first started at St Andrews, there was even less on than there is now. I graduated before Prince William rocked up on and they did up the entire town (the AH department is now twice the size), and there were a few really nice pubs, friendly, good atmosphere. St Andrews is a quiet town, and when there are no students over the summer holidays, the population shrinks to less than half. So you know what we did? Well, we did something about it – people ran club nights and parties (open to everyone) and organised trips to Edinburgh (ooh! Big city!) to go out, but you wouldn’t know anything about that because you sound like a miserable little cow who probably sat in your halls and sulked like a petulant child instead of (shock! Horror!) going out and meeting people!

It was my friends who started the parties in the Secret Bunker and the Sea Life Centre, and trust me there were plenty of house parties to keep folk amused (especially The Keep in the third year and Pots and Pans in my second, the flat above Alldays, a few places near the KFB, the old merchant’s house at the end of South Street…not to mention my own flat which we kept going as a party flat years after I moved out, as I owned and let the place to mates). People got OFF their lazy butts and DID something, instead of expecting things to be handed to them on a plate!

I’m interested to hear what you consider “going out”, as during my time at St Andrews I had friends come up from London who had actually heard of the party scene in St Andrews and wanted to check it out. I believe the Bunker parties were mentioned in Mixmag at one point as well. As far as clubbing in Dundee is concerned, mate you wouldn’t last 10 minutes in Dundee. Having said that, it costs £15 quid max to get there, so £30 return (and I know folk who work for Golf taxis, so that’s a high estimate), but we always shared it between 3-4 of us. Oh, but wait! You probably don’t have any mates, as I can’t see how anyone would put up with your moaning! I don’t know who you asked but £60? You must be having a laugh! I think they saw you coming to be honest…

I love shopping as much as the next person, in fact probably more (as my BF wonders how I’ve managed to fill a whole room full of just my shoes and handbags). But if you think having a SHOPPING CENTRE in the middle of town is the answer to your happiness,, well that’s just a bit sad really. Go to Edinburgh if you really want to go shopping – it is only an hour and 20 mins away by train

Its also very difficult to find decent work here because of the lack of opportunities because of the lack of shops, and the \university’s Career Centre is completely hopeless, and basically has no reason for existing, because all the vacancy details could just be sent by e-mail to students, but they refuse to do that and instaead obligate you to go there in person and look up a vacancy located in a single file, which yu then have to que for half and hour to get access to. I am NOT joking.
Most significantly, I have spoken to three people from London, two of whom are my friends and one who has now left because he hated the place so much, and they all say the same thing about it. I had to write this because since I came I have contemplated leaving several times, so if you’re from a decent, fun city, be prepared for the hugest disappointment of your life.

I think the reason why people have commented on you being “spoon fed” because you expected the uni’s career centre to EMAIL YOU job vacancy details? Welcome to the real world! I came to uni as a self-professed sheltered little princess, I’m not ashamed to admit. You think having to go in to the Career Centre and standing in a queue is such a hardship? You have to LOOK UP vacancies yourself before you can apply for them? Hmm…what are you going to do upon graduation (assuming you actually stick with uni for long enough to graduate) and suddenly the job offers aren’t coming in as thick and fast as you “expected”? Things don’t get handed to you on a plate in the real world, people have to work for them. I have a good job working in a field I am passionate about, and I put a lot of that down to having gone to St Andrews in the first place. Where exactly do you expect this magical employment opportunity is going to come from? Do you think someone will stop you on the street and offer you your dream job (or any job for that matter)?

I was at St Andrews for 4 years and loved it. I am also not from a small town and have no basis for comparison – I am from Toronto, and have lived in Paris. I still count St Andrews as one of my favourite places, and during my time there I met some of the most amazing people I could ever hope to meet, who I am still friends with and keep in contact with today.

I must have been sadly mistaken. I thought university was a place to get a higher education, meet people and gain experiences that would shape the rest of your life. Apparently it’s a place to go clubbing and shopping. Oops, my bad.

Reply 271

JB Johnstone

Not sure where else to post this, kinda related to this thread so I didn't think I should create another one.

My parents keep telling me that StA students get to go on the golf courses for free (since my mum's friend's husband went there several years ago and he claims this).
Not sure how true this is, can anyone clear this up so I can go back to them with a definite answer?

Cheers.

Reply 272

terpineol

14

JB Johnstone

Not sure where else to post this, kinda related to this thread so I didn't think I should create another one.

My parents keep telling me that StA students get to go on the golf courses for free (since my mum's friend's husband went there several years ago and he claims this).
Not sure how true this is, can anyone clear this up so I can go back to them with a definite answer?

Cheers.

I think you pay about £140 for the year, then only pay for the old course which I think is then £4 a round.

Reply 273

ch0llima

16

I realise that I might be making this thread somewhat like Lazarus, but I too attended St Andrews for two years and transferred out to Dundee. I had a much longer reply planned, but it was mostly rambling and irrelevant so I hosed it and started afresh.

In a nutshell, I started in St Andrews and had a pretty good first year. Not as riotous or as party-filled as some, but still enjoyable and I met some great people. I wasn't terribly outgoing so Freshers' Week was difficult and I found it hard to fit in initially, but once I settled down all was good. The work was taxing enough to be worthwhile, but not desperately difficult and the workload was bearable and fulfilling.

The town felt like home once I'd settled in; it was nice to be able to stroll along the beach whenever I fancied it, nice to walk along towards the Cathedral and St Rule's Tower, the peace and tranquility, along with the clean air, were really something else - being from Edinburgh, this was actually something quite new and I still think back fondly of such occasions. Yes, I know there were only three streets and The Scores really worth mentioning, but that's fine because everywhere beyond Kinnessburn Road (Sp.?) is absolutely horrible and typical of how horrendous Fife can get.

It eventually reached the stage where I didn't want to go home for the holidays anymore as I would be away from my friends (despite many of them being old school friends who I'd see at home anyway - St. A was a very popular University amongst my sixth year peers) and would just feel bored. I was never into golf, I should add.

Second year rolled round, I moved into a different and more socially active hall and life felt good; I was moving up in the world, had a whole new set of social opportunities and plenty of new people which even me, not too outgoing, found good. I still enjoyed doing everything I normally did and living life the usual way. However, the problems started when my second year modules were a whole world harder than the first year ones and apparently the difficulty had been ramped up that year, as the modules were restructured. Even the third years who had done the modules the previous year were shocked at the changes, as they had previously breezed through it effortlessly. I struggled badly and ended up failing the key module to get into Honours, which is where things got really messy.

The pastoral care was truly awful. I was passed from pillar to post to bollard and back again, fed four different interpretations of academic regulations, fed four sets of poor advice and was eventually thrown to the dogs as the academic staff washed their hands of me. Everything was too much trouble for them, no attempt was made to actually provide any kind of advice or guidance and they genuinely didn't care and made no attempt to hide it. The only people that were of any help whatsoever were Student Support, who actually allowed me to explain my situation and discuss my options instead of merely messing me around. Cutting a very long story short, I was able to either a) resit the same nails second year to get into Honours with zero guarantee of success or b) stick out another year and graduate with a BSc General Science degree, which is so pointless, useless and embarrassing to the point where you'd probably retain more pride and dignity by dropping out entirely.

I appreciate that me failing the course was my own responsibility and it was due to me struggling rather than extenuating circumstances, but I tried hard to get the help I needed and I worked very hard but was still kicked to the kerb as described above. The stress and uncertainty of this actually changed my personality and my friends started to desert me, as I was quite frankly turning into a truly horrible person to be around and I can't blame them. The whole experience left me with few people I felt I could trust, and I really felt like I couldn't hack the town or the people any longer. At this point, I went back to UCAS and transferred my 120 credits from first year and got direct entry to second year of my preferred course at Dundee.

I have just graduated from Dundee University, and I have zero regrets. Dundee is a great city (well, the centre and West End are nice bits - the rest, not so much but every city has its nasty areas), Dundee University has a near identical quality of teaching to St Andrews (although I will admit the courses are slightly easier, but not by much) but the facilities are second to none. We've got a whole new library for £20m which is absolutely top notch (I hear St Andrews were supposed to have £46m but now can't afford it), we have the best student union in Scotland (five floors, better than the tiny St Andrews union where I remember having to peel my feet off the floors as I walked around), excellent and affordable accommodation (my cousin tells me DRA is still absolutely deserted because nobody can afford it - the Dundee accommodation is essentially identical for a fraction of the price and a better set of locations) and we've got the best student gym in the UK. Also, contrary to popular belief, the students are normal everyday people from all walks of life and not a bunch of total brain dead chavs as some would have you believe, along with plenty of international students. I have personally lived with a Nigerian, a Frenchman, an Italian, an Irishman, Greek, Hong Kong and even a Kazakh (I lived in halls all the way through, you meet a load of different people on foreign exchange programmes)

I have absolutely no regrets about the move, and it really is the embodiment of that old adage "the grass is greener on the other side". Truth is, I had no idea how well things would work out before I moved and I seriously think the OP should consider a transfer - she quite clearly isn't happy and it'll probably make her feel a lot more positive if she moves into a better environment. Mind you, it's the summer holidays and she seems to be heading into third year which likely makes it too late.

I had some very sour grapes at the time I left St Andrews and felt angry, alone, confused and emotionally shattered, but I NEVER had an ingrained and undiluted hatred like the OP has. Yes, pubs shut early and there wasn't a proper nightclub (and The Bop at the Union was hopeless unless you're too drunk to stand) but you're a pretty shallow person if this is all that's important to you, likewise with the shopping. You're there to study and everything else has to play second fiddle, it's a simple fact of life. I study in Dundee, but do I spend all day every day in the Overgate Centre and all night every night in Fat Sam's or Liquid? Nope. Get your priorities in line and your life will improve accordingly. If you ask me, it appears the OP is blaming all of her faults on other people and the town itself - something I never did. At least I take full responsibility for what went wrong, despite the obstacles I encountered along the way, and it's really served as a reality check and I've definitely learned volumes from the experience.

Was I happy in St Andrews? Yes, until my problems started and my life fell apart.
Would I study there again? Possibly, if I knew then what I knew now I would likely have picked a different course and at least known what to expect.
Should I have gone to Dundee first time round, considering I had an unconditional? Absolutely. It would have saved so much hassle in the long run, but I would never have had the "magic" and temporary buzz of being in St Andrews.

Don't let the OP put you off, as most of her complaints are easily overlooked if you're not specifically looking. St Andrews is great for the right person and you really need to put the most in to get the most out and, for what it's worth, I don't think I put in as much as I could have done and could have made a better go of it. I know that it trades mostly on its reputation and the facilities are pretty poor but if you can look past this it's still a great place to go.

Thanks for reading. I hope it all makes sense and feel free to get your blowtorches out for a spot of flaming if you disagree, but I hope sharing my own personal experiences has helped people and cleaned up some of the mud slinging, as I have been on both sides of the fence.

To the OP, I genuinely hope your situation improves but the onus is entirely on you to make it happen.

Reply 274

leemkule

14

ch0llima

The pastoral care was truly awful. I was passed from pillar to post to bollard and back again, fed four different interpretations of academic regulations, fed four sets of poor advice and was eventually thrown to the dogs as the academic staff washed their hands of me. Everything was too much trouble for them, no attempt was made to actually provide any kind of advice or guidance and they genuinely didn't care and made no attempt to hide it. The only people that were of any help whatsoever were Student Support, who actually allowed me to explain my situation and discuss my options instead of merely messing me around. Cutting a very long story short, I was able to either a) resit the same nails second year to get into Honours with zero guarantee of success or b) stick out another year and graduate with a BSc General Science degree, which is so pointless, useless and embarrassing to the point where you'd probably retain more pride and dignity by dropping out entirely.

I appreciate that me failing the course was my own responsibility and it was due to me struggling rather than extenuating circumstances, but I tried hard to get the help I needed and I worked very hard but was still kicked to the kerb as described above. The stress and uncertainty of this actually changed my personality and my friends started to desert me, as I was quite frankly turning into a truly horrible person to be around and I can't blame them. The whole experience left me with few people I felt I could trust, and I really felt like I couldn't hack the town or the people any longer. At this point, I went back to UCAS and transferred my 120 credits from first year and got direct entry to second year of my preferred course at Dundee.

I have just graduated from Dundee University, and I have zero regrets. Dundee is a great city (well, the centre and West End are nice bits - the rest, not so much but every city has its nasty areas), Dundee University has a near identical quality of teaching to St Andrews (although I will admit the courses are slightly easier, but not by much) but the facilities are second to none. We've got a whole new library for £20m which is absolutely top notch (I hear St Andrews were supposed to have £46m but now can't afford it), we have the best student union in Scotland (five floors, better than the tiny St Andrews union where I remember having to peel my feet off the floors as I walked around), excellent and affordable accommodation (my cousin tells me DRA is still absolutely deserted because nobody can afford it - the Dundee accommodation is essentially identical for a fraction of the price and a better set of locations) and we've got the best student gym in the UK. Also, contrary to popular belief, the students are normal everyday people from all walks of life and not a bunch of total brain dead chavs as some would have you believe, along with plenty of international students. I have personally lived with a Nigerian, a Frenchman, an Italian, an Irishman, Greek, Hong Kong and even a Kazakh (I lived in halls all the way through, you meet a load of different people on foreign exchange programmes)

I have absolutely no regrets about the move, and it really is the embodiment of that old adage "the grass is greener on the other side". Truth is, I had no idea how well things would work out before I moved and I seriously think the OP should consider a transfer - she quite clearly isn't happy and it'll probably make her feel a lot more positive if she moves into a better environment. Mind you, it's the summer holidays and she seems to be heading into third year which likely makes it too late.

I had some very sour grapes at the time I left St Andrews and felt angry, alone, confused and emotionally shattered, but I NEVER had an ingrained and undiluted hatred like the OP has. Yes, pubs shut early and there wasn't a proper nightclub (and The Bop at the Union was hopeless unless you're too drunk to stand) but you're a pretty shallow person if this is all that's important to you, likewise with the shopping. You're there to study and everything else has to play second fiddle, it's a simple fact of life. I study in Dundee, but do I spend all day every day in the Overgate Centre and all night every night in Fat Sam's or Liquid? Nope. Get your priorities in line and your life will improve accordingly. If you ask me, it appears the OP is blaming all of her faults on other people and the town itself - something I never did. At least I take full responsibility for what went wrong, despite the obstacles I encountered along the way, and it's really served as a reality check and I've definitely learned volumes from the experience.

Great post. Just kinda wanted to echo what you were saying here. I have one friend that was almost in an identical situation to you and it was an uphill struggle for her to get any support or help, she was barely even told what would happen. Added to this I'm friends with a few people who have had really tough times in first year and their academic performance has suffered cause of it. The staff acted like they cared for them and wanted to help, but from what I heard it was little more than a 5 minute motivational and somewhat patronising meeting with absolutely no follow up.

EDIT: Oh and just to add, DRA was pretty much full last year.

Reply 275

Sambo2

10

leemkule

Great post. Just kinda wanted to echo what you were saying here. I have one friend that was almost in an identical situation to you and it was an uphill struggle for her to get any support or help, she was barely even told what would happen. Added to this I'm friends with a few people who have had really tough times in first year and their academic performance has suffered cause of it. The staff acted like they cared for them and wanted to help, but from what I heard it was little more than a 5 minute motivational and somewhat patronising meeting with absolutely no follow up.

EDIT: Oh and just to add, DRA was pretty much full last year.

to give a different perspective.. I'm friends with a few failing medics who have had fantastic support at all stages - so I'm not sure it's fair to give the impression that academic support is poor - you know as well as I do that (certainly within medicine) there are plenty of excellent people who would be and are very keen to support and help us however they can.

Reply 276

terpineol

14

leemkule

Great post. Just kinda wanted to echo what you were saying here. I have one friend that was almost in an identical situation to you and it was an uphill struggle for her to get any support or help, she was barely even told what would happen. Added to this I'm friends with a few people who have had really tough times in first year and their academic performance has suffered cause of it. The staff acted like they cared for them and wanted to help, but from what I heard it was little more than a 5 minute motivational and somewhat patronising meeting with absolutely no follow up.

EDIT: Oh and just to add, DRA was pretty much full last year.

Its been full for at least the last three years... (last year the university overflowed the halls and had to stick some people in Dundee...)

Reply 277

leemkule

14

Sambo2

to give a different perspective.. I'm friends with a few failing medics who have had fantastic support at all stages - so I'm not sure it's fair to give the impression that academic support is poor - you know as well as I do that (certainly within medicine) there are plenty of excellent people who would be and are very keen to support and help us however they can.

Well this is exactly what I'm saying. Two different people have said the exact same thing to me - they claimed the support was much more superficial than it is made out to be, maybe they're exaggerating, I don't know. I haven't had any experience with it - just going on word of mouth.

I did miss 3 weeks of class due to illness and they were really helpful. That's not really the same thing though.

Reply 278

leemkule

14

terpineol

Its been full for at least the last three years... (last year the university overflowed the halls and had to stick some people in Dundee...)

Ouch, having to commute from Dundee must have sucked.

Reply 279

Sambo2

10

leemkule

Well this is exactly what I'm saying. Two different people have said the exact same thing to me - they claimed the support was much more superficial than it is made out to be, maybe they're exaggerating, I don't know. I haven't had any experience with it - just going on word of mouth.

I did miss 3 weeks of class due to illness and they were really helpful. That's not really the same thing though.

I think possibly they are quite ruthless if you don't make the grades but come on the support which you could get if you wanted is top notch imo, you'd only have to email module controllers/pro-dean/your tutor etc.. ultimatly their is only so much you they can do, eventually you have to knuckle down and do some work.

St Andrews University: A Warning

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