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    (Original post by jamesman13)
    when you say that does it mean 'popular types' who are cliquey with eachother, and all have amazing social skills?

    im hardly a social retard, far from it but normally those people wouldn't give you the time of day if youre nervous on the first day and act a little uncool!
    if thats what most people in catered halls are like i think ill be a loot happier at Van Mildert college durham!
    Haha no, no. Most St Andreans I find are quite relaxed people who you get on with just fine and the town environment adds to it even more. I have no problem chatting on to people I don't know in the queue at Tescos or on the bus in the morning. Just cos they're a bit snobbish sometimes (and they're not really, I have a broad Geordie dialect and wear football shorts to lectures, and I get on well with most people) doesn't mean that they don't accept people for who they are. Once you see the way some people dress here you'll get a lot more confidence that you're the sane one.
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    (Original post by LGF92)
    Haha no, no. Most St Andreans I find are quite relaxed people who you get on with just fine and the town environment adds to it even more. I have no problem chatting on to people I don't know in the queue at Tescos or on the bus in the morning. Just cos they're a bit snobbish sometimes (and they're not really, I have a broad Geordie dialect and wear football shorts to lectures, and I get on well with most people) doesn't mean that they don't accept people for who they are. Once you see the way some people dress here you'll get a lot more confidence that you're the sane one.
    lol safe for that sounds mint
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    (Original post by Milk <3)
    whats the ratio of yahs to non yahs? is it true most of them are in st salvadors? how does that work if you cant choose your accomo

    dont get me wrong im sure theyve lovely people, but i dont know if, as an upper-working class lad ill fit in!
    Well I live in Sallies atm. There are a few posh yahs, but to be honest most of the people we call the yahs in Sallies are actually more like american jocks who behave like drunken retards most the time. But its probably about 50/50 to 40/60 yahs/jocks to the more normal people.

    If you end up in Sallies don't worry about it. The people that look and dress really posh are actually really nice approachable people just for some reason they like to wear 3 piece suits most days.
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    i think you are just doing it wrong... im a 2nd year as well.
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    (Original post by andyc1695)
    i think you are just doing it wrong... im a 2nd year as well.
    what do you meann?
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    MTFU or FTFO
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    (Original post by KY16 chick)
    MTFU or FTFO
    you what?
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    (Original post by jamesman13)
    you what?
    man the **** up or **** the **** off

    I think
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    I think if you are that unhappy you really should leave, there is no shame on leaving a university you don't enjoy. You have written quite an essay here, it is clear you should not be in St Andrews. However bear in mind how your experience may be completely different to another student's from St Andrews. I could easily write an article of equal length on how much I love St Andrews. If you don't enjoy studying, living or partying in St Andrews then leave! Some experiences are not for everyone. Is there nothing you like?
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    (Original post by abudhabidalethorpe)
    Is there nothing you like?
    No, there is nothing that I like. And believe me, OP and I have tried our best to leave. However unlike you local students, we pay A HUGE SUM to attend university and cannot leave at whim. Also, it is very difficult to transfer schools in the UK without having to repeat a year due to the system here. Considering these factors, it makes more sense to stay in this school and wait it out - much as we absolutely dislike it.
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    For no apparent reason in my absence I'm getting repped for my slightly *****y, trite comment about St. Andrews University. Well, I suppose the new system is probably different and so on. Anyway, what I should have actually said is this:

    (Original post by Umiisadorable)
    Its like a tiny, picturesque little prison with no clubs, and a very limited amount of shops and NO SHOPPING CENTRE whatsoever.
    You vacuous cow. You materialistic, moronic, spoiled brat. 'NO SHOPPING CENTRE'? Nothing instills a more mundane and depressing feeling than a bloody shopping centre, but besides that you're talking about a tiny town which spends half the year half empty. If you're so bloody smart then why can't you grasp the most elementary principles of supply and demand? Jesus ****ing Christ.
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    You all know from a few pages back that I, myself, spent two years at St Andrews before leaving for personal and academic reasons. It's interesting to see that this thread is still limping along after such an extensive period and the *****ing bandwagon rolls steadily onwards with the OP getting summarily pwnt at every turn. I personally feel that most of your criticism of the OP is fair, and she hasn't fully embraced or understood St Andrews or its student life and biased, insidious and jaded ranting never helped anyone.

    However, there's one glaring point which I feel needs to be addressed and that some of you have been very unfair to the OP about: the Careers Service. The OP may be wrong or biased about many things, but that most definitely wasn't one of them - it was a total joke and I absolutely agree with her.

    At the University of Dundee (where I moved to), you sign up with the Careers Service and something called "The Placement Basement" and I was getting literally about 3-4 e-mails a week from them with job adverts, not to mention I regularly got e-mails from our School Secretary forwarded on from outside employers which basically said "We've got this role going, could you pass this onto your students in case some of them might be interested please?". In peak periods (e.g. close to graduation), this ballooned to a total of about 8-9 e-mails a week just about jobs and placements with near immediate availability.

    In contrast, St Andrews Careers Service was a bit of a joke, especially considering how much they crow about their graduates' prospects and employability due to the prestige of the university itself. The staff were dismissive and flippant, the place was poorly organised with inconvenient opening hours and access to information was desperately poor with the information itself being somewhat out of date. Try as you might, you can't argue with her about that unless they've given it an epic overhaul since 2007, which I highly doubt - although I do try to avoid wanton dogma where possible and I'm open to be told I'm wrong, providing valid proof is presented

    (Original post by Umiisadorable)
    I can't believe its actually been a year since I started this thread...glad to see its still engendering some discussion- heres one thing I want to point out as well, I don't think I got this across clearly enough in my original post- its not just about the lack of shopping centres or nightclubs, its the general culture of the place and the attitudes of its people that bothers me, above everything else ... snip ...
    That's fine, because you don't really need shopping centres or nightclubs and they should be considered a nice bonus. I have easy access to both of those in Dundee and rarely use either; in terms of nights out, I prefer local pubs/bars and the two student unions because they're reasonably priced and not half as scummy as the "proper" clubs, which have prices amounting to theft.

    I don't agree about the snobbery part, to be honest. One of my course mates was from a dirt poor background and had grant money and scholarships coming out of his ears, but he still mixed with us no problem. For the record, I'm from an upper-middle class private school background and I don't look down on people like that at all. As for the idiots in halls, if they're causing you hassle by blocking corridors etc. chances are they're causing others hassle as well so they're bound to take some flak for it at some point, and they're probably lucky that you're being so reasonable about it. Again, ignore and move on. Their fault for being immature meat heads and you're the bigger and better person for not rising to it - failing that, accidentally trip on them and injure them in the process.

    There is definitely a lot of posing and snobbery going on, but I'll happily wager that it's because it comes part and parcel with the age group, the clientele and the sort of student experience St Andrews offers. Like it or lump it, there's no way around it and I learned very quickly to ignore it and wasn't ever terribly bothered. You get posing at every university, with my advice being to file them under T for "tosser" and moving on.

    When you're studying and living somewhere, it's a good bit more difficult to paint an objective picture of it and bias/personal opinion definitely comes into play. Looking at St Andrews from the outside and no longer living and studying there, I have to say that it's different in many ways to everywhere else and I don't consider that a major issue; in fact, that in itself could be commendable if it weren't for the fact that there are a small number of obviously negative points:


    • I can relate to the arrogant cliqueyness, and it is quite sad that such a small number of people in such a small town will bunch into tiny groups and refuse to integrate with each other, this being true in halls as well. I was surprised when my school friend visiting from Edinburgh (both of us are from there, and he studied there too) actually came out and said this as if it was screamingly obvious - looking back, it actually was! I've not seen that sort of thing anywhere since. That said, why should you care unless it's actually bothering you? If it is, then chances are you've got issues - learn to let these things go


    • It is a very small town with little opportunities post-graduation, not like bigger cities e.g. Edinburgh and Manchester where there are, mostly, jobs-a-plenty and you don't necessarily need to relocate in order to grab them - you would only live in St Andrews permanently if you got a role within the university and in my experience many of the lecturers and university staff lived outside of the town in the likes of Crail and Strathkinness anyway, so the point is moot. Chances are you'll be there for just four calendar years with time spent at home and away from the university for the holidays, so the lack of opportunities really shouldn't affect you too much at all. Therefore, you're forgiven for not considering this a disadvantage - in fact, put the correct spin on it and it actually becomes a good thing


    • What does St Andrews have beyond The Scores and the three main streets? Not much to be honest, although it has 80% of what every normal person would need - for everything else, there's Dundee or even catch a connection to Edinburgh/Glasgow and, failing that, St Andrews is marked on the map and online deliveries can reach you The local parts of St Andrews down towards Scooniehill Road etc. leave a lot to be desired and too many of the locals are hardly university material and outright despise the students. However what it does have it does with absolute aplomb and the students love it for a reason, but it is definitely the sort of place where you need to make your own entertainment instead of going to crappy Dundee clubs or the dreaded Casino (on the corner of Hawkhill and the Marketgait in Dundee, for those who know the area). I had a grand old time just drinking in halls, or going to The Gin House, The Central, Aikman's/The Cellar (when they were still there), The Whey Pat (loved it), Greyfriars or even the union. The union, despite its flaws, serves its purpose well and it doesn't need to be on the same league as others because it's targeting a different market. There were a number of nice house parties as well.


    • The KK and Lumsden Clubs - vile, ghastly, cliquey cults which the University deliberately and obviously distance themselves from and quite rightly so. Even when I was still enjoying St Andrews before things went wrong, I looked on those groups with disdain and I remember a group of 10 of us in halls trying desperately to talk a friend out of applying. Luckily, we succeeded :party:

    St Andrews is very much a "love it or hate it" environment and it is definitely not for everyone. 99.9% of people I knew there absolutely loved every waking minute and I enjoyed it for the time I was there, with this unwavering until things started to unravel. I was genuinely gutted and apprehensive about leaving (although the exact mechanics behind this are highly complex and highly personal), but the grass was most definitely greener on the other side and I picked myself up and moved on. Turned out to be a fantastic decision and my life improved leaps and bounds afterwards.

    Looking back on it now and compared with my original response to this thread last year at some stage, I have to come to this conclusion: as much as I enjoyed my time in St Andrews, it definitely has its flaws and isn't for everyone. In fact, it has some quite alarming negative points. However, find me a place that doesn't and plenty of people love St Andrews in its current form and it is definitely different to, but not necessarily better than, other places.

    Good luck to all of you in whatever you choose in life and whatever you end up doing
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    I don't think its fair to say I've been pwned by anyone LOL, I expected flame wars to begin and to be insulted and hated on by a lot of people who spend ages on this site talking St Andrews up...although that word is quite funny , all I set out to do was give for the normal, average person looking for (amongst other things) a fun, exciting and diverse university experience a good idea of what they'd feel like if they came to St Andrews, and since I started this thread is been one of the most read in this section of the site, even if not everyone agress with me, i've gotten a fair amount of thanks and had people contact me via messaging to ay either thanks or ask questions- thats exactly what I wanted. I wanted attention to be drawn to the realities (from my, and several other perspectives) of living in St Andrews to warn others what they're putting themselevs in for, so I feel like I've suceeded in what I wanted to do quite nicely...

    I think the focus of the original post was a little skewed though because I focused too much on the physical aspects of the place and, its not just the lack of clubs or shopping centres, thats almost bearable although it takes getting used to...and thats the thing, I think even if I had visited, I may have come anyway in the end because I thought you know what, I can have fun anywhere, its the people and the atmosphere that count....but thats excatly my point, and I wished I stressed this more- its the culture, attitudes and behaviour that charcterizes this place that bothers me most. There are 'normal' people from ordinary backgrounds here, but here the whole look and feel of the place and the social side of things is just completely fake and characterized by pretentiousness and people tryign to keep within their social circles, however large all small, which is not what a place should be like. People here are so stuck in their own little worlds, its amazing, and really sad. You go back home to a normal town or city and the difference socially is amazing, its like a breath of fresh air.

    (Original post by ch0llima)
    There is definitely a lot of posing and snobbery going on, but I'll happily wager that it's because it comes part and parcel with the age group, the clientele and the sort of student experience St Andrews offers.
    You've just agreed with one of the main compalints I expressed in my last post...you put a positive spin on it at the end, but what you just said is bang on, I've noted it too, except I and I think most people won't wager that, they'll find it unbearable. The culture of a place and the way people interact is an extremely signficant part of things, it could make the diference between a great student experience and a depressing one. Student life is suppossed to be partly about mixing and experiencing different things, meeting new people and having fun, here a lot of that is stripped away because of how afriad people are to speak to people they don't know or treat people not from the same background as equals, which makes the places extremely stagnant even for those who have several friends. Thats something I think people should really know, because its important, a social scene charcterised by cliques and complete inaction can ruin your time at a place. I've found friends here, but I still find the social atmosphere really unpleasant and maddeningly stagnant.

    (Original post by ch0llima)
    I can relate to the arrogant cliqueyness, and it is quite sad that such a small number of people in such a small town will bunch into tiny groups and refuse to integrate with each other, this being true in halls as well. I was surprised when my school friend visiting from Edinburgh (both of us are from there, and he studied there too) actually came out and said this as if it was screamingly obvious - looking back, it actually was! I've not seen that sort of thing anywhere since.
    Again, you've expressed this more kindly, but you've agreed essentially with my main arguement- that this place is not somewhere where you'll get to experience student life as you can in other places, and yes has several negative points, which I've highlighted also just in less St andrews-fantatic-friendly terms....I constantly have to remind myself that st Andrews is not really part of the 'normal' world- you'll find a social realm here stranger than any other I've experienced, too...but thats not a compliment.
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    (Original post by ch0llima)
    Aikman's/The Cellar (when they were still there),
    Aikman's is back!

    And yes, the careers centre is crap, but there are a lot of events put on by big employers (I don't know how this compares to other unis though, I was never interested in actually getting a job so I never went to any...).
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    (Original post by Umiisadorable)
    I.
    im not assuming youre wrong or youre lying about the cliquiness and lack of social atmosphere for one minute, but do most people at st a agree with you about it? its just you may have a 'unique taste' of social life, you know? i might be going there in sept and im upper-working classsss
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    (Original post by jamesman13)
    im not assuming youre wrong or youre lying about the cliquiness and lack of social atmosphere for one minute, but do most people at st a agree with you about it? its just you may have a 'unique taste' of social life, you know? i might be going there in sept and im upper-working classsss
    What on Earth is upper-working class?
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    (Original post by BigFudamental)
    What on Earth is upper-working class?
    as in my family earn above median income, we're nothing like chav/jeremy kyle show working class, but it would be silly to describe ourselves as middle class, because traditonally at least the middle class have always been associated with being a bit posh and the upper class as very posh.

    we struggle a wee bit here n there, definately not posh lol
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    (Original post by jamesman13)
    as in my family earn above median income, we're nothing like chav/jeremy kyle show working class, but it would be silly to describe ourselves as middle class, because traditonally at least the middle class have always been associated with being a bit posh and the upper class as very posh.
    You'll have to come, visit and try and get a sense of the social atmosphere yourself to decide, but personally, in my experience, there are ordinary people here who are upper working class, lower middle class etc in halls and places like Albany Park and Fife Park, because they're cheap...but the snobbery and cliqueishness which charcetrises St Andrews is unavoidable, really, is evident in everything from the housing prices to the weird traditions that this university is catered towards a particular demographic (they're currently trying to tear down some of the cheaper accomodation in Fife Park to make way for 6,000k a year flats)....the tone here is set by the upper middle classers and above.

    Moreso than that, its a place where like I've said, theres a limited amount of mixing and socialising between social groups, as a previous poster has stated (ch0llima), for such a small place, its a sad fact that people just stick to their cliques, which is dissappointing and boring really- everyone needs a group, but whats a University experience without a sense of community and social mixing? There are a fair amount of people that don't wear designer clothes to Tescos, but you will feel in the minority as someone from a poorer background, I can guarantee it. I'd suggest going to a city-based Uni where you're more likely to mix with people from a similar background- and where a lot mroe socialising between and amongst people goes on which makes the whole social side of things way more reqarding...but again, its up to you, if you want the benefit of having St Andrews on your CV you may feel its worth sacrificing a better overall experience for....but as I said, visit, talk to other people when you do visit and try to get a sense of the place.
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    (Original post by killer whale)
    Excellent post OP. St Andrews is such an overrated university. It isn't anything special academically, no better than twenty or so others, and clearly inferior to Oxbridge, and yet the actual student experience sucks.

    The weather is dismal, there is absolutely nothing to do as you say. and those who sing its praises are either practising cognitive dissonance, or they don't know what they are missing.

    OR they aren't being as honest as you are.

    Well done for keeping it real.
    Who was comparing it to Oxbridge?

    It's decent for my subject academically.

    The weather is decent for Scotland and it's sunny, the sunniest part of Scotland.

    I can't say I've ever been bored or had a lack of things to do, with societies, better balls than my friends at UCL and parties.

    I live near London and have travelled quite a bit, so I do know what other places have to offer.

    St As isn't perfect, but it isn't as flawed as OP claims imo.

    Again, it's personal preference.
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    (Original post by Milk <3)
    whats the ratio of yahs to non yahs? is it true most of them are in st salvadors? how does that work if you cant choose your accomo

    dont get me wrong im sure theyve lovely people, but i dont know if, as an upper-working class lad ill fit in!
    You can choose your accom

    Just write a little note with your application form and magic.

    Yes, Sallies is v rah
 
 
 
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