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    things really did get **** after they closed the woolworths up there...
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    (Original post by Umiisadorable)

    i The lack of openness amongst people to others-

    People here rarely mix and mostly stick to whatever social groups they've cultivated. As a result, a lot of people, I think, come here and can feel extremely lonely and dissatisfied because of how stagnant things are socially-the lack of new people to meet, the anticlimactic social events and the general sense of things constantly being the same, week on week. Its draining experiencing a bit of what student life should be in places like Edinburgh, Bristol and Southampton where my friends go, and seeing how people mix and socialise and talk to oen and other freely and openly on nights out and coming back to St Andrews where people shoot each other disdainful looks and spend balls and social events pouting with their arms crossed amongst their groups of girlfriends. Its a place where despite how small it is, even people who elsewhere would have a great time can feel completely on their own or otherwise trapped in a stagnant social circle....

    ii 'High School' mentalitites.

    My friends at Bristol and Southampton were confused when I mentioned cliques, as they commented that at their institutions, everyone essentially socialises with each other- the architect students plan huge trips and nights out together, and a lot of people know each other and pretty much become friends by accident and via knowing others. Here, its very socially rigid in my experience- people limit themselves to people whom they percieve to be 'good enough' to hang out with and theres very little comradeship amongst fellow students to be witnessed- the atmosphere, even in tutorials, in my experience, is generally intense and competetive where it should be fun and bonding.

    To some degree. I think it depends on who you hang out with. I have met people like the ones you describe, but I have also met lots of friendly and open people who like to socialize and network, but then people in my subject are all quite pally. I think your experience depends on the halls you live in and the subject you study.

    (Original post by Umiisadorable)
    iii Atmosphere on campus

    A lot of posturing and showing off goes on, the whole place can feel like a giant catwalk/pageant at times- for instance the majority of female students are almost indistinguishable from one and other because in desperation to fit in, so many of them wear the EXACT same outfit: black tights, wellies, a jacket and a (preferably desginer) handbag. I'm not kidding, I almost buckled to the pressure of trying it, because almost every female looks/dresses this way! The hemogeny of it can feel extremely alienating. In a regular university, the odd few dress up in Topshop to go to lectures but equally a lot of people are comfortable to wear hoodies and jeans on campus, here, girls get dressed up in designer gear and expensive outfits to go to Tescos.
    Hey whut? We have no campus yeah there are people who dress like that, but I'm told it's even worse in London unis who dress up and look fashionable for lectures. I'm sure it happens in every uni to some degree. I don't give a ****. I'll wear my trackie bs, hoodies etc. I don't need to impress some rah studying history of art or IR.

    (Original post by Umiisadorable)

    iv Snobbery

    Its been stated before, but there are a lot of upper middle class [and above] people- this is not ALL by any means, but certainly some- at the University who behave as though they own it, which if you're just an ordinary person from lower middle class or working class background, as I think most people in Britain are generally, it can make it difficult to find people whom you relate to. This snobbery is something I experienced last year in Halls in Andrew Melville, where people openly made rude comments about me as I was walking past- [American students whom I'd never spoken to], and others who used to, for instance, stretch themselves out in the middle of the corridor and refuse to move when someone approached, because they expected the person to merely step over their outstretched legs. Other common behvaiour included a designated clique occupying every seat in the public kitchens during mealtimes, and then proceeding to shoot suspicious glances at anyone else who entered.
    Idk, I have experienced similar things on occasion, but the people were just *******s tbh. Some people are just unpleasant and need to form groups and are scared to talk to outsiders. Most of the people I know are not like this and are reasonable, nice people. You can meet *******s anywhere.

    (Original post by Umiisadorable)
    Anger at this sort of behaviour in particular is what partly led me to start this thread, its not just the lack of city-like attractions, its the arrongance and disdain that permeates the behaviour of quite a few people I've met here towards others here that can have you in tears. When I'm back home or in a city, I'm myself again because I'm surrounded by people who like myself, are open-minded and don;t feel the need to prove something I came here knowing it was small and not like a city, but was expecting a far better social atmosphere, thats my main complaint.
    Yeah, I can understand what you're saying, but don't let the *******s grind you down. I've met even nastier people at work/in my hometown. Some people are just unpleasant, but I wouldn't say it's ruined my uni experience. On balance I'm fairly happy in St Andrews
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    (Original post by why-hello-there)
    things really did get **** after they closed the woolworths up there...
    Ah but then we had Nisa

    and now H&M

    Bring back Nisa!
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    (Original post by No Future)
    Ah but then we had Nisa

    and now H&M

    Bring back Nisa!
    hehe

    i'll be honest, i only go up there now for the putting (cause i like golf, just can't play it :rolleyes: )

    any idea if that north point cafe (or something like that) is still there? they did good scrambled egg :cool:
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    (Original post by why-hello-there)
    hehe

    i'll be honest, i only go up there now for the putting (cause i like golf, just can't play it :rolleyes: )

    any idea if that north point cafe (or something like that) is still there? they did good scrambled egg :cool:
    North Point is def the place for breakfast, you're right there
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    (Original post by jamesman13)
    as in my family earn above median income, we're nothing like chav/jeremy kyle show working class, but it would be silly to describe ourselves as middle class, because traditonally at least the middle class have always been associated with being a bit posh and the upper class as very posh.

    we struggle a wee bit here n there, definately not posh lol
    Lower middle class, then? There's nothing wrong with calling yoursellf "upper working class" (although I have never heard such a term - it's usually divided beween skilled and unskilled working class). But if your family are in office or professional jobs, earn above average incomes and you have (or will have) a university education it's difficult to really define yourself as

    I come from mining stock. My maternal grandfather was a miner, my paternal grandfather went to grammar school and became a clerk and lived in a respectable council house until they bought it. His son, my father, became a draughtsman and then a design engineer (so certainly a middle class, professional occupation). I was brought up in a modest detached house and we were comfortably off (though never well off) and now I'm at a very middle class university (looking to enter a very middle class profession).

    So I recognise my working class roots but I'm certainly not, or ever was, working class. Then again I don't really feel particularly middle class. I suppose I'm quite classless. So I understand.

    People on long term benefits (certainly those who scrounge and not claiming out of genuine need) are the underclass.

    I find it quite sad that the OP, who is only expressing an opinion and his/her experience, gets negged for it. I could understand if it was an obvious troll making incredulous statements and then not countering other peoples points. It doesn't appear that this is the case although I haven't read the thread.

    It's only one opinion and not every single student is going to be satisfied. I certainly have major issues with my university and these need addressing (not St Andrews btw), though I'm not exactly unhappy here and recognise that the grass always seems greener on the other side.
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    (Original post by why-hello-there)
    hehe

    i'll be honest, i only go up there now for the putting (cause i like golf, just can't play it :rolleyes: )

    any idea if that north point cafe (or something like that) is still there? they did good scrambled egg :cool:
    It is but they're selling it apparently, although are in no rush to do so.
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    (Original post by River85)
    Lower middle class, then?
    yah i suppose, i was having a debate with myself whether or not i should say upper-working or lower-middle, i suppose the latter would be better. youre in castle college btw yeah?


    (Original post by River85)
    I come from mining stock. My maternal grandfather was a miner, my paternal grandfather went to grammar school and became a clerk and lived in a respectable council house until they bought it.
    so do you hate thatcher then as your grandad was a miner or love her because he could buy his council house? :P youre officially not middle class though until you like her lol



    (Original post by River85)
    I find it quite sad that the OP, who is only expressing an opinion and his/her experience, gets negged for it. I could understand if it was an obvious troll making incredulous statements and then not countering other peoples points. It doesn't appear that this is the case although I haven't read the thread.
    too right, its good that they may have prevented some people from making the biggest mistake of their life if its not for them

    (Original post by River85)
    It's only one opinion and not every single student is going to be satisfied. I certainly have major issues with my university and these need addressing (not St Andrews btw), though I'm not exactly unhappy here and recognise that the grass always seems greener on the other side.
    whats up??
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    (Original post by Slumpy)
    No idea about the uni.
    As a place, who cares about the lack of shops? There's plenty for everything I need, certainly. And the beach is useable year round...
    Also, if you think the clubs in Dundee are good, you're clearly quite confused.
    are the clubs in dundee not good?

    on a scale of 1-10, with places like liverpool, newcastle at 9/10 (word of mouth I just heard they're good) where is dundee?
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    (Original post by bestofyou)
    are the clubs in dundee not good?

    on a scale of 1-10, with places like liverpool, newcastle at 9/10 (word of mouth I just heard they're good) where is dundee?
    I've only been clubbing in Cambridge, Dundee, Glasgow, Durham and I suppose St Andrews, so don't have much to compare to, and I probably rate Cambridge as the best of those, but that might be because I have more experience of them.
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    (Original post by Slumpy)
    I've only been clubbing in Cambridge, Dundee, Glasgow, Durham and I suppose St Andrews, so don't have much to compare to, and I probably rate Cambridge as the best of those, but that might be because I have more experience of them.
    I've heard that glasgow is pretty decent, so dundee compared to glasgow.

    When you say clubbing...just nightclubs, or pubs included??

    Its just nightlife for me is a key factor when firming
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    (Original post by bestofyou)
    I've heard that glasgow is pretty decent, so dundee compared to glasgow.

    When you say clubbing...just nightclubs, or pubs included??

    Its just nightlife for me is a key factor when firming
    pubs in st andrews are meant to be great. there arent really any clubs and the ones in dundee are meant to be shit, but apparnetly shit can be good in a way like cheap/tacky fun sort of
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    (Original post by bestofyou)
    I've heard that glasgow is pretty decent, so dundee compared to glasgow.

    When you say clubbing...just nightclubs, or pubs included??

    Its just nightlife for me is a key factor when firming
    My experience is mostly limited to one club in dundee, and I've had some good nights there. Never bothered going there for pubs as I'm happy enough with the ones in St Andrews.
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    worried. someone care to oppose what the OP has said?
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    Read through the entire thread before reopening an old thread please.

    Yes. There are a few hundred opposes.
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    (Original post by Umiisadorable)
    O.K, I'm writing this because I wished someone had done the same for me when I was applying to University, and been honest about what its REALLY like at St Andrews. I am a Second year student at the University, and wanted to make a formal warning to people wanting to apply to this University, because I don't want others to be duped the way that I was ...
    It's people like you that piss me off in St Andrews. If you don't like it leave - We have enough annoying stuck up ***** in the town.
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    why does this topic keep getting dragged up.. -.-
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    (Original post by Magma828)
    why does this topic keep getting dragged up.. -.-
    It's controversial?
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    (Original post by ch0llima)
    You all know from a few pages back that I, myself, spent two years at St Andrews before leaving for personal and academic reasons. It's interesting to see that this thread is still limping along after such an extensive period and the *****ing bandwagon rolls steadily onwards with the OP getting summarily pwnt at every turn. I personally feel that most of your criticism of the OP is fair, and she hasn't fully embraced or understood St Andrews or its student life and biased, insidious and jaded ranting never helped anyone.

    However, there's one glaring point which I feel needs to be addressed and that some of you have been very unfair to the OP about: the Careers Service. The OP may be wrong or biased about many things, but that most definitely wasn't one of them - it was a total joke and I absolutely agree with her.

    At the University of Dundee (where I moved to), you sign up with the Careers Service and something called "The Placement Basement" and I was getting literally about 3-4 e-mails a week from them with job adverts, not to mention I regularly got e-mails from our School Secretary forwarded on from outside employers which basically said "We've got this role going, could you pass this onto your students in case some of them might be interested please?". In peak periods (e.g. close to graduation), this ballooned to a total of about 8-9 e-mails a week just about jobs and placements with near immediate availability.

    In contrast, St Andrews Careers Service was a bit of a joke, especially considering how much they crow about their graduates' prospects and employability due to the prestige of the university itself. The staff were dismissive and flippant, the place was poorly organised with inconvenient opening hours and access to information was desperately poor with the information itself being somewhat out of date. Try as you might, you can't argue with her about that unless they've given it an epic overhaul since 2007, which I highly doubt - although I do try to avoid wanton dogma where possible and I'm open to be told I'm wrong, providing valid proof is presented



    That's fine, because you don't really need shopping centres or nightclubs and they should be considered a nice bonus. I have easy access to both of those in Dundee and rarely use either; in terms of nights out, I prefer local pubs/bars and the two student unions because they're reasonably priced and not half as scummy as the "proper" clubs, which have prices amounting to theft.

    I don't agree about the snobbery part, to be honest. One of my course mates was from a dirt poor background and had grant money and scholarships coming out of his ears, but he still mixed with us no problem. For the record, I'm from an upper-middle class private school background and I don't look down on people like that at all. As for the idiots in halls, if they're causing you hassle by blocking corridors etc. chances are they're causing others hassle as well so they're bound to take some flak for it at some point, and they're probably lucky that you're being so reasonable about it. Again, ignore and move on. Their fault for being immature meat heads and you're the bigger and better person for not rising to it - failing that, accidentally trip on them and injure them in the process.

    There is definitely a lot of posing and snobbery going on, but I'll happily wager that it's because it comes part and parcel with the age group, the clientele and the sort of student experience St Andrews offers. Like it or lump it, there's no way around it and I learned very quickly to ignore it and wasn't ever terribly bothered. You get posing at every university, with my advice being to file them under T for "tosser" and moving on.

    When you're studying and living somewhere, it's a good bit more difficult to paint an objective picture of it and bias/personal opinion definitely comes into play. Looking at St Andrews from the outside and no longer living and studying there, I have to say that it's different in many ways to everywhere else and I don't consider that a major issue; in fact, that in itself could be commendable if it weren't for the fact that there are a small number of obviously negative points:


    • I can relate to the arrogant cliqueyness, and it is quite sad that such a small number of people in such a small town will bunch into tiny groups and refuse to integrate with each other, this being true in halls as well. I was surprised when my school friend visiting from Edinburgh (both of us are from there, and he studied there too) actually came out and said this as if it was screamingly obvious - looking back, it actually was! I've not seen that sort of thing anywhere since. That said, why should you care unless it's actually bothering you? If it is, then chances are you've got issues - learn to let these things go


    • It is a very small town with little opportunities post-graduation, not like bigger cities e.g. Edinburgh and Manchester where there are, mostly, jobs-a-plenty and you don't necessarily need to relocate in order to grab them - you would only live in St Andrews permanently if you got a role within the university and in my experience many of the lecturers and university staff lived outside of the town in the likes of Crail and Strathkinness anyway, so the point is moot. Chances are you'll be there for just four calendar years with time spent at home and away from the university for the holidays, so the lack of opportunities really shouldn't affect you too much at all. Therefore, you're forgiven for not considering this a disadvantage - in fact, put the correct spin on it and it actually becomes a good thing


    • What does St Andrews have beyond The Scores and the three main streets? Not much to be honest, although it has 80% of what every normal person would need - for everything else, there's Dundee or even catch a connection to Edinburgh/Glasgow and, failing that, St Andrews is marked on the map and online deliveries can reach you The local parts of St Andrews down towards Scooniehill Road etc. leave a lot to be desired and too many of the locals are hardly university material and outright despise the students. However what it does have it does with absolute aplomb and the students love it for a reason, but it is definitely the sort of place where you need to make your own entertainment instead of going to crappy Dundee clubs or the dreaded Casino (on the corner of Hawkhill and the Marketgait in Dundee, for those who know the area). I had a grand old time just drinking in halls, or going to The Gin House, The Central, Aikman's/The Cellar (when they were still there), The Whey Pat (loved it), Greyfriars or even the union. The union, despite its flaws, serves its purpose well and it doesn't need to be on the same league as others because it's targeting a different market. There were a number of nice house parties as well.


    • The KK and Lumsden Clubs - vile, ghastly, cliquey cults which the University deliberately and obviously distance themselves from and quite rightly so. Even when I was still enjoying St Andrews before things went wrong, I looked on those groups with disdain and I remember a group of 10 of us in halls trying desperately to talk a friend out of applying. Luckily, we succeeded :party:

    St Andrews is very much a "love it or hate it" environment and it is definitely not for everyone. 99.9% of people I knew there absolutely loved every waking minute and I enjoyed it for the time I was there, with this unwavering until things started to unravel. I was genuinely gutted and apprehensive about leaving (although the exact mechanics behind this are highly complex and highly personal), but the grass was most definitely greener on the other side and I picked myself up and moved on. Turned out to be a fantastic decision and my life improved leaps and bounds afterwards.

    Looking back on it now and compared with my original response to this thread last year at some stage, I have to come to this conclusion: as much as I enjoyed my time in St Andrews, it definitely has its flaws and isn't for everyone. In fact, it has some quite alarming negative points. However, find me a place that doesn't and plenty of people love St Andrews in its current form and it is definitely different to, but not necessarily better than, other places.

    Good luck to all of you in whatever you choose in life and whatever you end up doing
    I dont care what anyone says Im still applying
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    (Original post by Umiisadorable)
    You'll have to come, visit and try and get a sense of the social atmosphere yourself to decide, but personally, in my experience, there are ordinary people here who are upper working class, lower middle class etc in halls and places like Albany Park and Fife Park, because they're cheap...but the snobbery and cliqueishness which charcetrises St Andrews is unavoidable, really, is evident in everything from the housing prices to the weird traditions that this university is catered towards a particular demographic (they're currently trying to tear down some of the cheaper accomodation in Fife Park to make way for 6,000k a year flats)....the tone here is set by the upper middle classers and above.

    Moreso than that, its a place where like I've said, theres a limited amount of mixing and socialising between social groups, as a previous poster has stated (ch0llima), for such a small place, its a sad fact that people just stick to their cliques, which is dissappointing and boring really- everyone needs a group, but whats a University experience without a sense of community and social mixing? There are a fair amount of people that don't wear designer clothes to Tescos, but you will feel in the minority as someone from a poorer background, I can guarantee it. I'd suggest going to a city-based Uni where you're more likely to mix with people from a similar background- and where a lot mroe socialising between and amongst people goes on which makes the whole social side of things way more reqarding...but again, its up to you, if you want the benefit of having St Andrews on your CV you may feel its worth sacrificing a better overall experience for....but as I said, visit, talk to other people when you do visit and try to get a sense of the place.
    Just how cliquey is it? :/ And how are the cliques divided into?

    And as a general question how is it for people who don't drink? Or for muslims in general?
 
 
 
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