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    (Original post by Hannahmay01)
    Not my intended student experience at all! University next year for me will be all studying and no drinking. I have never drunk alcohol in my life or gone out partying and have no intention to start.

    University life doesn't revolve around students getting drunk.. besides you will have a lot of free time in your first year.. and studying constantly? you sound like a bore.
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    (Original post by Hannahmay01)
    Not my intended student experience at all! University next year for me will be all studying and no drinking. I have never drunk alcohol in my life or gone out partying and have no intention to start.
    Then don't complain if you find it hard pushed to make friends if all you want to do is study.
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    (Original post by la_banane_verte)
    I'm really sorry that you felt this, perhaps you could send me a PM and let me know which behaviours you felt were bullying, as it's certainly not an impression I want anyone to get of the club.

    All our social events have quite clearly stated that we were happy for people to choose to drink or not drink as they preferred. I can't help with your prejudice against "intoxicated people" - not everyone behaves the same after having had alcohol. Obviously some people are idiots when they drink, but some are idiots when they don't drink. Had you come to some of the gymnastics events, I would have done my best to have been friendly and inclusive, and probably wouldn't have been drinking either, so you wouldn't have been the only one.

    Like I say, I just think it's a shame that you've discounted a big group of people that you have common interests with based on the "drinking". If I can do anything about the bullying situation, please let me know - again, I'm sorry that you've felt like this about some of the people in the club.
    It is a shame, as I enjoyed being able to get some training in, but besides the unpleasant people, it's just not safe for me to be walking there by myself at night given recent events. I actually did want to go to the first event, but again, walking alone late at night is not something I do.

    My experience with intoxicated people has been wholly unpleasant, and I just don't feel comfortable around them. It wouldn't be fun being the only sane person at a gathering, and I don't want to ruin anyone else's fun (as I'm surely one of those people who would end up calling the police if anything got too out of hand). Thanks for your concern.
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    (Original post by ElizabethRG)
    It is a shame, as I enjoyed being able to get some training in, but besides the unpleasant people, it's just not safe for me to be walking there by myself at night given recent events. I actually did want to go to the first event, but again, walking alone late at night is not something I do.

    My experience with intoxicated people has been wholly unpleasant, and I just don't feel comfortable around them. It wouldn't be fun being the only sane person at a gathering, and I don't want to ruin anyone else's fun (as I'm surely one of those people who would end up calling the police if anything got too out of hand). Thanks for your concern.
    If you do feel like you'd like to come back and train when it gets lighter in the spring (it will, I promise!), do let me know if there's anything I could do to make it better for you - I'm the safety officer on the committee.

    For other people reading wondering about the "recent events" - a girl was sexually assaulted sometime near the end of November at around 5.40pm near one of the halls of residence. It's a horrible thing to have happened, but thankfully is incredibly rare at St Andrews in comparison to other places. Since it's so uncommon, it's quite big news when an attack like this happens.
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    (Original post by la_banane_verte)
    If you do feel like you'd like to come back and train when it gets lighter in the spring (it will, I promise!), do let me know if there's anything I could do to make it better for you - I'm the safety officer on the committee.

    For other people reading wondering about the "recent events" - a girl was sexually assaulted sometime near the end of November at around 5.40pm near one of the halls of residence. It's a horrible thing to have happened, but thankfully is incredibly rare at St Andrews in comparison to other places. Since it's so uncommon, it's quite big news when an attack like this happens.
    Particularly scary for me as it was on my route to gymnastics (around the same time as well), and it was just a fluke I wasn't there around that time...
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    I fully agree with the original poster's assessment of St. Andrews. Many under-estimate the smallness of the town. Even a visit beforehand doesn't allow one to fully extrapolate what living in a town of this size for four years will practically entail.

    The claustrophobia and boredom are not the only issues. Over time, people change and adapt the best they can and I believe not in a positive way. People convince themselves of that living in an over-crowded town with horrifically skewed demographics is normal. I've seen people change and become censorious of their thoughts, their words. People become highly judgemental, anxious, cautious, suspicious, callous or two-dimensional versions of themselves to cope. Whatever you say in a social situation, whatever you do, will come back to you. There is simply no privacy and no opportunity for a private life here for you to relax. Everything you say and do is on public display and there will little you can do about it. There is are minute degrees of separation between you and everybody that you know and everybody that you are likely to meet. Most come here straight from school and so do not register fully just how uniquely oppressive this kind of university experience is compared to studying in a metropolitan centre. Yes one might argue that the tightness of the community is a benefit. In my experience, this does not outweigh the constant sense of surveillance, the inability to escape from other's perceptions of you, the forced self-consciousness. There is no room to grow, to be yourself, to make and unmake friends at will.

    You will see the same faces on a daily or at most weekly basis. In the supermarkets, on the streets, in the library. You cannot speak freely to friends in public as you simply do not know who will overhear, misinterpret, gossip. Everybody will know your name, your character, your achievements, your personal life. This was not how I wanted to spend my early twenties.

    There is no room for platonic friendships. If a male and female are seen together it becomes accepted that they are seeing each other. The social pressure even in this arena becomes unbearable. Again, you become cautious to avoid difficult and unnecessary situations. Hence, welcome back to awkward high school tensions between the sexes.

    I believe the kinds of relationships encouraged by the small town, provincial environment and the atmosphere of the place impacts negatively on the individual's ability to focus on what I would hope they came here for - an academic education.
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    (Original post by dmdmdm)
    You will see the same faces on a daily or at most weekly basis. In the supermarkets, on the streets, in the library. You cannot speak freely to friends in public as you simply do not know who will overhear, misinterpret, gossip. Everybody will know your name, your character, your achievements, your personal life. This was not how I wanted to spend my early twenties.

    There is no room for platonic friendships. If a male and female are seen together it becomes accepted that they are seeing each other. The social pressure even in this arena becomes unbearable. Again, you become cautious to avoid difficult and unnecessary situations. Hence, welcome back to awkward high school tensions between the sexes.

    I believe the kinds of relationships encouraged by the small town, provincial environment and the atmosphere of the place impacts negatively on the individual's ability to focus on what I would hope they came here for - an academic education.
    Wow. I feel you need to lighten up a little.
    Who cares what everyone else thinks of you?!
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    Are you saying that you'd prefer to live somewhere where your actions were being constantly scrutinised and critiqued?

    Furthermore, how would you explain anybody's preferences then for certain social groups, types of people, kinds of gatherings, lifestyles or even careers. If you really didn't care about the values and outlooks of others in your immediate vicinity and their assessment of your own values and outlook you wouldn't exhibit any preference when coming to make these decisions.

    There is also a difference between having little concern for what strangers think - for example while living in a larger city where anonymity is the norm - and having little concern for what people who know you and who you encounter daily think of you or behave toward you, not just at work but in every public/private setting you enter (not that there is any real distinction between the two spheres, in practice, in a place such as St. Andrews).
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    (Original post by dmdmdm)
    Are you saying that you'd prefer to live somewhere where your actions were being constantly scrutinised and critiqued?

    Furthermore, how would you explain anybody's preferences then for certain social groups, types of people, kinds of gatherings, lifestyles or even careers. If you really didn't care about the values and outlooks of others in your immediate vicinity and their assessment of your own values and outlook you wouldn't exhibit any preference when coming to make these decisions.

    There is also a difference between having little concern for what strangers think - for example while living in a larger city where anonymity is the norm - and having little concern for what people who know you and who you encounter daily think of you or behave toward you, not just at work but in every public/private setting you enter (not that there is any real distinction between the two spheres, in practice, in a place such as St. Andrews).
    I wouldn't prefer, it just never bothered me. I lived in St Andrews for 12 years, and in a smaller community for university tbh. Don't see why it should bother you.
    The people who matter will be the same either way, and balls to the others. Frankly, I think people are generally rather nicer than you're giving them credit for too.

    I mean, if this kinda thing matters to you so much, how're you going to cope with a working environment where you see people every day, and have things like office gossip?
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    (Original post by M_E_X)
    I'm a current 2nd year at St Andrews and I'm really, really enjoying it.

    Some of your points are ridiculous, but at least answer me this;

    When you applied to, and accepted your place at, St Andrews university, did you really believe there would be many clubs or a large "shopping centre"?
    St Andrews main appeal apart from its excellent academic reputation is the fact that it is a small, quiet, safe town. It is for exactly those reasons that I turned down universities like Imperial and Kings to come here.

    It certainly doesn't sound like you're having a good time, and I am sorry for that - but were you expecting the town to be different to how it is? Did you not visit? Did you not look in a prospectus? Did you even go on the wikipedia? I can't believe someone could be as shocked as you apparently are.

    edit: Some posts which stood out...


    People generally don't think that, but the university performed exceptionally well in both the dreaded "league tables" and in other quality-measures (such as the RAE) this year. I do believe it is not only the best university in Scotland, but one of the top 5 in the UK.
    I don't, St Andrews was only considered more attractive thanks to Prince William getting rejected by Oxbridge due to low A level grades. The university is prestigious for being very old and posh, but that doesn't make it academically good. The newspaper rankings use rubbish data to rank universities, and only a fool would place all their hopes on just that. St Andrews ranks at somewhere in the top 15-20 range academically speaking in the QS World Rankings as far as UK unis go.

    I believe even Prince William considered transferring from St Andrews after his first year. A good job he stayed!
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    (Original post by Mansun)
    I don't, St Andrews was only considered more attractive thanks to Prince William getting rejected by Oxbridge due to low A level grades. The university is prestigious for being very old and posh, but that doesn't make it academically good. The newspaper rankings use rubbish data to rank universities, and only a fool would place all their hopes on just that. St Andrews ranks at somewhere in the top 15-20 range academically speaking in the QS World Rankings as far as UK unis go.

    I believe even Prince William considered transferring from St Andrews after his first year. A good job he stayed!
    The QS and Times Higher World rankings are based on research output, considering that St. Andrews is a small, teaching focused university, it isn't surprising that we don't place as higher as the bigger universities. Take into account student satisfaction, graduate employment and a number of other factors, St. Andrews places much higher than most unis
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    (Original post by Calllu-m)
    The QS and Times Higher World rankings are based on research output, considering that St. Andrews is a small, teaching focused university, it isn't surprising that we don't place as higher as the bigger universities. Take into account student satisfaction, graduate employment and a number of other factors, St. Andrews places much higher than most unis
    St Andrews doesn't even come in the top 200 of the World in the Meta Rankings.
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    But Mansun if you look at specific subjects for example, it is one of the top universities in the world. Say the graduate philosophy program is ranked by a legitimate source (not the awful news companies) as being the 2nd strongest in the UK and top handful in the world. Or the International Relations department, which ranks even higher.

    So it is a matter of perspective and subject. Just like most Ivy league universities do not have a law school, so they cannot be top in those subjects. Its all subject and perspective.
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    (Original post by Bob311)
    But Mansun if you look at specific subjects for example, it is one of the top universities in the world. Say the graduate philosophy program is ranked by a legitimate source (not the awful news companies) as being the 2nd strongest in the UK and top handful in the world. Or the International Relations department, which ranks even higher.

    So it is a matter of perspective and subject. Just like most Ivy league universities do not have a law school, so they cannot be top in those subjects. Its all subject and perspective.

    • Having averaged out the Meta World Rankings 2013/2014 (QS, TES, ARWU) and the UK media rankings (the Times 2014, the Complete Uni Guide 2015, the Guardian 2015), the following table is the result:-

      1.University of Cambridge
      2.University of Oxford
      3.Imperial College London
      4.London School of Economics and Political Science
      5.University College London
      6.University of Durham
      7.University of Warwick
      8.University of York
      9.University of Birmingham
      10.University of Edinburgh
      11.University of Southampton
      12.University of Bristol
      13.University of Nottingham
      14.University of Newcastle
      15.University of Sheffield
      16.University of Glasgow
      17.University of Manchester
      18.University of Leeds
      19.King’s College London
      20.University of Aberdeen
      21.Queen Mary – University of London
      22.University of Liverpool

    St Andrews is prestigious for being the 3rd oldest university in the English speaking World, not for the fact that it is a well balanced university for excellence in both teaching and research, like Edinburgh or Durham. That is why it doesn't even come into the top 20 of the above league table that combined 6 of the most common league tables used (3 World Rankings, 3 UK Rankings). World Rankings favour academic research, UK rankings favour teaching criteria.
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    I am very forthcoming about pointing out the many negative aspects of the university, but even I don't understand your relentless attempts to dismiss it as academically terrible. Do you even go here? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by alone-in-kyoto)
    I am very forthcoming about pointing out the many negative aspects of the university, but even I don't understand your relentless attempts to dismiss it as academically terrible. Do you even go here? :rolleyes:
    Is it my fault that St Andrews doesn't come in the top 200 of the latest Meta World Rankings? It is World class for teaching, but not for research. I am not against this university, I recognise it is prestigious, just not for academia. More so for the history and tradition, and more recently it's connections to royalty.

    Incidentally, I did recently consider St Andrews, but for the online MSc, with no attendance required.
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    OP was obviously well researched lol.
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    (Original post by Mansun)
    Is it my fault that St Andrews doesn't come in the top 200 of the latest Meta World Rankings? It is World class for teaching, but not for research. I am not against this university, I recognise it is prestigious, just not for academia. More so for the history and tradition, and more recently it's connections to royalty.

    Incidentally, I did recently consider St Andrews, but for the online MSc, with no attendance required.
    So, in answer to my question, no. I genuinely have no idea how somebody could attack the academic quality of an institution on an online forum without even having studied there, and this is as somebody who does not see the place through rose tinted glasses by any stretch of the imagination.
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    (Original post by alone-in-kyoto)
    So, in answer to my question, no. I genuinely have no idea how somebody could attack the academic quality of an institution on an online forum without even having studied there, and this is as somebody who does not see the place through rose tinted glasses by any stretch of the imagination. Get a hobby or something.
    I apologise if I hurt your feelings. I am just pointing out what the latest statistics say.
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    Incidentally people from UK public schools are used to that type of community / isolation / seclusion. That is why they love it. They think clubs and High Street shops are common anyway so they never need to go to them.
 
 
 
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