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    (Original post by Hollywood Hogan)
    Setting high expectations is of paramount importance.
    And reputational standings from the past decade are woefully out of date for setting expectations.
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    (Original post by Slumpy)
    And reputational standings from the past decade are woefully out of date for setting expectations.
    The reputation of a university is not made or broken over a decade, but over half a century at least, ideally longer. The best universities, as judged by business and academia, have long since been set in stone, and are as follows:-

    1) ''G5'' universities: Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, Imperial, UCL

    2) Russell Group universities

    3) Other traditional universities

    4) Ex-poly universities

    This hierarchy of universities will never be broken, no matter what UK league tables say. International rankings are also much more important for the global reputation of a university.
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    (Original post by Hollywood Hogan)
    The reputation of a university is not made or broken over a decade, but over half a century at least, ideally longer. The best universities, as judged by business and academia, have long since been set in stone, and are as follows:-

    1) ''G5'' universities: Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, Imperial, UCL

    2) Russell Group universities

    3) Other traditional universities

    4) Ex-poly universities

    This hierarchy of universities will never be broken, no matter what UK league tables say. International rankings are also much more important for the global reputation of a university.
    Whatever you may believe, that can easily be well out of date about where you can get the best education, which oddly is why some people still go!
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    (Original post by Slumpy)
    Whatever you may believe, that can easily be well out of date about where you can get the best education, which oddly is why some people still go!
    Each university has it's own mission and strategy in being a university. Manchester doesn't care so much about teaching in small groups, they simply want to rake in the money teaching enormous undergraduate numbers and re-investing the revenues back into the university and it's research power for international status. St Andrews takes virtually the opposite direction, being less interested in research power and international rankings.
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    (Original post by Hollywood Hogan)
    Each university has it's own mission and strategy in being a university. Manchester doesn't care so much about teaching in small groups, they simply want to rake in the money teaching enormous undergraduate numbers and re-investing the revenues back into the university and it's research power for international status. St Andrews takes virtually the opposite direction, being less interested in research power and international rankings.
    So you're saying St Andrews is superior for undergrad? You don't half like the non-sequiturs.
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    (Original post by Slumpy)
    So you're saying St Andrews is superior for undergrad? You don't half like the non-sequiturs.
    St Andrews my well provide a better teaching experience, provided the courses are taught by lecturers, and not postgraduates.
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    (Original post by Hollywood Hogan)
    St Andrews my well provide a better teaching experience, provided the courses are taught by lecturers, and not postgraduates.
    As I've said before in this thread, I applied to university more than 30 years ago (35, to be precise) and St Andrews was my insurance choice after Oxbridge because it had a very strong academic reputation. I cannot understand where this impression has come from that it has suddenly leapt up the rankings from nowhere, nor the idea that it is not research-focused. In the 2008 research assessment exercise, it was ranked 12th in the UK - above most Russell Group universities and Durham (which was not in the Russell Group at the time, incidentally). And in the latest complete university guide St Andrews ranks 11th in the UK for graduate employment prospects. Oxford is 14th....
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    (Original post by Hollywood Hogan)
    The reputation of a university is not made or broken over a decade, but over half a century at least, ideally longer. The best universities, as judged by business and academia, have long since been set in stone, and are as follows:-

    1) ''G5'' universities: Oxford, Cambridge, LSE, Imperial, UCL

    2) Russell Group universities

    3) Other traditional universities

    4) Ex-poly universities

    This hierarchy of universities will never be broken, no matter what UK league tables say. International rankings are also much more important for the global reputation of a university.
    That ranking applies only to England, certainly does not factor in Scottish unis. Nobody knows what the RG is outside the UK, just like nobody knows what the U15 is.

    I bet you that you had to look that up.

    That is what everyone who isn't on TSR does for the RG.

    All you really need to know is that St Andrews has a top teaching reputation, I have never had a teacher who was not a professor or a lecturer and our school is highly selective. That is all that is required of a good undergraduate uni. The material is the same around the country, its how its taught, whether the students are satisfied, and whether or not the university is selective that really matters.

    For post-grad, St Andrews is "selective" in how it applies its research. It won't be the next Oxbridge overnight because it only has 2k postgrads. It is quite selective in its research focus, it targets excellence in a few minor fields in each subject. For those minor fields, St Andrews is quality.
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    (Original post by Okorange)
    The material is the same around the country, its how its taught, whether the students are satisfied, and whether or not the university is selective that really matters.
    Not really true (not even for medicine IIRC).
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    (Original post by Slumpy)
    Not really true (not even for medicine IIRC).
    I don't know about other subjects but generally they do teach similar things. For medicine it is generally the same, all curriculum is checked by the GMC to ensure that the quality of doctors produced by all UK medical schools is good. Lives are at stake.
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    (Original post by Okorange)
    I don't know about other subjects but generally they do teach similar things. For medicine it is generally the same, all curriculum is checked by the GMC to ensure that the quality of doctors produced by all UK medical schools is good. Lives are at stake.
    That doesn't mean the material is absolutely identical though. It just means they all have to meet a minimum standard.

    I would be reasonably confident (to use one example) that St Andrews teaches more detailed anatomy to its medical students than several other medical schools.
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    (Original post by Hollywood Hogan)
    St Andrews my well provide a better teaching experience, provided the courses are taught by lecturers, and not postgraduates.
    Can I ask what you mean by this?
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    (Original post by la_banane_verte)
    Can I ask what you mean by this?
    Only students at the university can confirm if they are being taught by lecturers all of the time or PhD students.
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    (Original post by Hollywood Hogan)
    Only students at the university can confirm if they are being taught by lecturers all of the time or PhD students.
    Are you talking about lectures? Tutorials? Examples classes? Lab work? What is the difference that you're implying there is between a lecturer and a PhD student?
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    (Original post by la_banane_verte)
    Are you talking about lectures? Tutorials? Examples classes? Lab work? What is the difference that you're implying there is between a lecturer and a PhD student?
    Non-lab classes: lectures, seminars, tutorials.
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    (Original post by Hollywood Hogan)
    Non-lab classes: lectures, seminars, tutorials.
    Ok, and so why would St Andrews provide a better experience if these classes were taught by lecturers?
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    (Original post by la_banane_verte)
    Ok, and so why would St Andrews provide a better experience if these classes were taught by lecturers?
    That is what lecturers are paid to do, and non-scottish students pay 9k a year to get taught properly.
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    (Original post by Hollywood Hogan)
    That is what lecturers are paid to do, and non-scottish students pay 9k a year to get taught properly.
    The PhD students get paid to do it too, and they can do it just as properly as a lecturer can.
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    (Original post by la_banane_verte)
    The PhD students get paid to do it too, and they can do it just as properly as a lecturer can.
    I was taught by Professors and Senior Lecturers only in my degree, and anything less and I would walk out of the University and transfer elsewhere.
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    (Original post by Hollywood Hogan)
    I was taught by Professors and Senior Lecturers only in my degree, and anything less and I would walk out of the University and transfer elsewhere.
    That sounds incredibly stuck up. Why do you even think PhD students don't know how to teach _undergraduate_ material? And if you never let PhD students teach, exactly when are future lecturers supposed to learn how to teach?
 
 
 
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