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Should religious people be subject to different laws to the rest of us? watch

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    I only just found out that Sikh's who carry the Kirpan (a dagger) are immune from knife laws.

    Certain schools in their independence try to ban them regardless. But apparently that's not on:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8500712.stm

    The article also mentions the case when a Sikh won a discrimination case, after not being allowed to be a Riot policeman, because he couldn't get the helmet on over his turban and refused to take the turban off.

    IMO Sikhs should not be above knife carrying laws. Not every Sikh is a nice person, and I think that in a confrontation, a Sikh could well decide to show his dagger, and so escalate the situation. Some Sikhs are members of gangs, and some Sikhs would use the dagger to intimidate This is the reason the rest of us are not allowed knives. I think that in a secular society, it is unacceptable for such an important law to be dependent on your religion.

    What's more I find it kind of scary that a judge thinks that schools should be made to allow Sikhs to carry knives. Hmm, knives in schools. What could possibly go wrong when teenage boys are allowed to carry knives in an environment of testosterone and hormone induced aggression?

    Discuss.
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    (Original post by paddyman4)
    I only just found out that Sikh's who carry the Kirpan (a dagger) are immune from knife laws.

    Certain schools in their independence try to ban them regardless. But apparently that's not on:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8500712.stm

    The article also mentions the case when a Sikh won a discrimination case, after not being allowed to be a Riot policeman, because he couldn't get the helmet on over his turban and refused to take the turban off.

    IMO Sikhs should not be above knife carrying laws. Not every Sikh is a nice person, and I think that in a confrontation, a Sikh could well decide to show his dagger, and so escalate the situation. Some Sikhs are members of gangs, and some Sikhs would use the dagger to intimidate This is the reason the rest of us are not allowed knives. I think that in a secular society, it is unacceptable for such an important law to be dependent on your religion.

    What's more I find it kind of scary that a judge thinks that schools should be made to allow Sikhs to carry knives. Hmm, knives in schools. What could possibly go wrong when teenage boys are allowed to carry knives in an environment of testosterone and hormone induced aggression?

    Discuss.
    most "sikhs" don't carry the kirpan, only baptised sikhs are allowed to.
    we can discuss this all day long, but lets look at the reality. how many incidents of crime have there been where sikhs have harmed people with their kirpans?

    also, the wearing of the kirpan is very strictly monitored. there are so many conditions that one has to fulfill. not just anyone can walk around with it.
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    the helmet thing is stupid!
    they want him to have a helmet for his own safety if they had gone about letting someone become a riot policeman and they got hurt because they didnt have a helmet on they'd be in sooooooo much trouble...

    personally i think everyone should be held under the same laws,
    to carry a dagger isnt just that that person could use it, someone else could steal it and use it...
    are they allowed to carry them on planes?
    maybe christianity should search through their bibles find somewhere where it says christians should carry swords....
    or just maybe compromise and make them carry daggers which are as sharp as butter knifes?

    i think its all just a little bit daft

    if everyones supposed to be treated the same regardless of religion, why are they making rules apply differently hmmm
    x
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    (Original post by x-pixie-lottie-x)
    the helmet thing is stupid!
    they want him to have a helmet for his own safety if they had gone about letting someone become a riot policeman and they got hurt because they didnt have a helmet on they'd be in sooooooo much trouble...

    personally i think everyone should be held under the same laws,
    to carry a dagger isnt just that that person could use it, someone else could steal it and use it...
    are they allowed to carry them on planes?
    maybe christianity should search through their bibles find somewhere where it says christians should carry swords....
    or just maybe compromise and make them carry daggers which are as sharp as butter knifes?

    i think its all just a little bit daft

    if everyones supposed to be treated the same regardless of religion, why are they making rules apply differently hmmm
    x
    no, sikhs are not allowed to carry kirpans on planes.
    at the end of the day, it was the sikh officers choice. do you even know how a turban is tied? i doubt it. when tied properly, i would argue that a turban is even more effective than a helmet.
    if you dont completely understand something, please don't say it is daft. at least do your research first.
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    No they shouldn't.
    It shouldn't be one law for us and one law for them.

    They or their relatives/ancestors came to this country where there is a different culture and different laws, they should cater to them and follow them and stop trying to bend the rules for their own gain.

    Especially for religion which is just dumb.
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    (Original post by Mr_Spoof)
    No they shouldn't.
    It shouldn't be one law for us and one law for them.

    They or their relatives/ancestors came to this country where there is a different culture and different laws, they should cater to them and follow them and stop trying to bend the rules for their own gain.

    Especially for religion which is just dumb.
    sikhs gave their lives for "your country" in both world wars in HUGE numbers.

    but yeah, lets just disregard that shall we. use them when it suits us then take away whatever little rights they are asking for, even though it hasnt inconvenienced us in any way whatsoever. fool.
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    (Original post by paddyman4)
    I only just found out that Sikh's who carry the Kirpan (a dagger) are immune from knife laws.
    I don't know what the law is in England, but I expect it is similar to Scotland: articles with a blade or point can be carried for religious reasons, as an integral part of a national costume or for work purposes. It does not matter who is carrying the knife, but rather what they are carrying it for. If someone has a good reason for carrying a knife, then the law allows them to. It simply prohibits people who do not have such a reason from doing so.

    This exemption also allows kilt-wearers to carry a dagger in their sock. Not just full-blown Scotsmen either.

    (Original post by Hooovan*)
    sikhs gave their lives for "your country" in both world wars in HUGE numbers.

    but yeah, lets just disregard that shall we. use them when it suits us then take away whatever little rights they are asking for, even though it hasnt inconvenienced us in any way whatsoever. fool.
    Precisely. Thankfully racists are a minority in this country.
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    No.
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    (Original post by Hooovan*)
    sikhs gave their lives for "your country" in both world wars in HUGE numbers.

    but yeah, lets just disregard that shall we. use them when it suits us then take away whatever little rights they are asking for, even though it hasnt inconvenienced us in any way whatsoever. fool.
    It's ok I don't expect you to understand common sense *headpat*.

    I know Sikhs gave their lives for this country you idiot, the fact that they gave their lives means that this country is still standing and still strong, that our laws are still around and that we live in a free society (no matter what the conspiracy theory idiots/losers say.)

    This is a society that has allowed and still allows many Sikhs to come here to live, to work, raise a family, get an education, gain free healthcare, and so on.

    If that isn't thanking them enough then I don't know what is.

    But when it comes to laws, the laws are our own and we should have to change them for anyone, especially because of religious beliefs or otherwise.


    There, there simple jack.
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    (Original post by Mr_Spoof)
    This is a society that has allowed and still allows many Sikhs to come here to live, to work, raise a family, get an education, gain free healthcare, and so on.

    If that isn't thanking them enough then I don't know what is.
    yeah, this privilege isn't exclusive to sikhs. big wow.

    (Original post by L i b)
    Precisely. Thankfully racists are a minority in this country.
    finally, someone with some common sense!
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    (Original post by Hooovan*)
    yeah, this privilege isn't exclusive to sikhs. big wow.
    But the fact that they are able to come here to live and get all that, that isn't exactly a bad thing is it?

    Life is full of give and take. They take the free healthcare, education, and everything else, and in return a bit of understanding for our laws would be nice.

    That goes for any religion too.


    Oh and thanks for the neg rep.
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    The law is against offensive weapons.

    If they have a legitimate reason be it religious, as a tool (that is what a knife is after all), or other lawful excuse they are fine to carry it.

    The has gotten out of hand when law abiding citizens have to worry and think about if it is ok to carry a knife.
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    One law for all.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    I don't know what the law is in England, but I expect it is similar to Scotland: articles with a blade or point can be carried for religious reasons, as an integral part of a national costume or for work purposes. It does not matter who is carrying the knife, but rather what they are carrying it for. If someone has a good reason for carrying a knife, then the law allows them to. It simply prohibits people who do not have such a reason from doing so.
    How does a person wanting to carry a knife for religious reasons have any more legitimacy to do so than one wanting to carry a knife for their own personal beliefs? Anyone can claim they are carrying a knife for decorative purposes, which tie into their belief system. Young males carrying knifes within schools is utterly misguided, in my opinion.
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    (Original post by paddyman4)
    I only just found out that Sikh's who carry the Kirpan (a dagger) are immune from knife laws.

    Certain schools in their independence try to ban them regardless. But apparently that's not on:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8500712.stm

    The article also mentions the case when a Sikh won a discrimination case, after not being allowed to be a Riot policeman, because he couldn't get the helmet on over his turban and refused to take the turban off.

    IMO Sikhs should not be above knife carrying laws. Not every Sikh is a nice person, and I think that in a confrontation, a Sikh could well decide to show his dagger, and so escalate the situation. Some Sikhs are members of gangs, and some Sikhs would use the dagger to intimidate This is the reason the rest of us are not allowed knives. I think that in a secular society, it is unacceptable for such an important law to be dependent on your religion.

    What's more I find it kind of scary that a judge thinks that schools should be made to allow Sikhs to carry knives. Hmm, knives in schools. What could possibly go wrong when teenage boys are allowed to carry knives in an environment of testosterone and hormone induced aggression?

    Discuss.
    Can i just correct you on one thing? It's just that, you say 'religious people' but i'd rather you have said muslims or something...Because, you know there are other religions aside from islam... :]
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    (Original post by L i b)
    I don't know what the law is in England, but I expect it is similar to Scotland: articles with a blade or point can be carried for religious reasons, as an integral part of a national costume or for work purposes. It does not matter who is carrying the knife, but rather what they are carrying it for. If someone has a good reason for carrying a knife, then the law allows them to. It simply prohibits people who do not have such a reason from doing so.

    This exemption also allows kilt-wearers to carry a dagger in their sock. Not just full-blown Scotsmen either.
    Unfortunately the law is not applied in the same way for Sikhs and kilt wearers and that is the problem. I have had my sgian dubh confiscated an numerous occasions at formal events, so much so that I now only wear a fake one when I'm out at an event that I know will have security or a police presence. I should think that it would cause a real stink if a Sikh was asked to remove his kirpan under the same circumstances. I should very much doubt if the kilt or the sgian dubh would receive the same consideration in the school environment as the turban and the kirpan - so, if your assertion is correct, then there are double standards at play here.
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    (Original post by EffieFlowers)
    Can i just correct you on one thing? It's just that, you say 'religious people' but i'd rather you have said muslims or something...Because, you know there are other religions aside from islam... :]
    Indeed there are, and Sikhism is one of those religions.
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    (Original post by Mr_Spoof)
    But the fact that they are able to come here to live and get all that, that isn't exactly a bad thing is it?

    Life is full of give and take. They take the free healthcare, education, and everything else, and in return a bit of understanding for our laws would be nice.

    That goes for any religion too.


    Oh and thanks for the neg rep.
    i didnt neg rep you, i already +repped Lib. i dont neg rep people for having an opinion.

    "they" also make a huge contribution towards society, working their backsides off. the law needs to accommodate people, not everyone is the same. different people have different cultures, beliefs and requirements. one law for all does not work in a diverse multicultural society such as britain.
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    Presumably, people with strong religious beliefs shouldn't need laws, they should be busy behaving because their God(s) tell them to
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    (Original post by paddyman4)
    I only just found out that Sikh's who carry the Kirpan (a dagger) are immune from knife laws.

    Certain schools in their independence try to ban them regardless. But apparently that's not on:

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/uk/8500712.stm

    The article also mentions the case when a Sikh won a discrimination case, after not being allowed to be a Riot policeman, because he couldn't get the helmet on over his turban and refused to take the turban off.

    IMO Sikhs should not be above knife carrying laws. Not every Sikh is a nice person, and I think that in a confrontation, a Sikh could well decide to show his dagger, and so escalate the situation. Some Sikhs are members of gangs, and some Sikhs would use the dagger to intimidate This is the reason the rest of us are not allowed knives. I think that in a secular society, it is unacceptable for such an important law to be dependent on your religion.


    Discuss.
    link me to a recent source where a sikh in the UK has stabbed/maimed/killed someone with their kirpan.

    also link me to another source that shows a high proportion of sikhs within gangs that actively threaten their community.

    Until you provide any of that information, its safe to say that your arguement is utterly discredited
 
 
 
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