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What do you think about this ad campaign? watch

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    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    ... because there is a guy saying "cheese" with a big camera! and they might get a sweetie from their mummy ....
    Piffle. That is quite clearly true happiness. ALso they are simply bought of a website. Look for the article in the Times if you want.
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    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    He is a child, he is not supposed to have faith.

    He is supposed to go and play in the park, as opposed to engage in theological discourse.
    Says who? Why can't he play in the park as well? :confused:
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    It's great, although the kid on the right scares me.
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    My parents didnt lie to me about santa OR the tooth fairy. They made sure they got the credit for presents and money (if i got any money). lol
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    (Original post by adamrules247)
    Piffle. That is quite clearly true happiness. ALso they are simply bought of a website. Look for the article in the Times if you want.
    Who cares where they came from?

    I like how people are so easily distracted in life from the main message!
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    (Original post by EskimoJo)
    Says who? Why can't he play in the park as well? :confused:
    What does faith have to do with anything? If I had children, I would educated them on all the various religions and bring them up to be morally sound.

    I don't see how a belief in Allah, God, Jesus or Scientology has anything to do with their childhood? I think you'll have to convince me how it is important or relevant?
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    I was never Christened but I was sent to a Catholic school - I wasn't sent there for religious reasons. The only other school in my area was a very bad comprehensive (which has since been closed) and the religious school was a good school with fairly good results. So my parents decided that education was the priority and told me to do as they say but "you don't have to believe any of it". So I went with an open mind as an agnostic, gradually I became interested in Chritianity and went along with a lot of the practices but once I'd left I'd come full circle and was agnostic again - in fact I lean very heavily towards atheism now.

    I was strongly exposed to Christianity/Islam by my schooling. Even when it's more or less forced on you (such as in my school environment) you still have the capacity to say "no I don't believe that" unless of course you're not so bright. So I have no problem with faith schools - I don't think I would be an athiest if I hadn't gone to a faith school (yes, ironic).

    I don't even have a problem with parents who teach their kids a religion (teach, not force) - it's just the same as what I experienced in school except it's done by two people instead of dozens. I do have a problem with parents who christen their children as babies or demand that that follow beliefs/practices though - because I agree that it should be the childs choice. They may not grow up to be religious but they will have that 'label' which I think is ridiculous.

    Every parent who teaches their child a religion is doing what they think is best for them - so I acknowledge that they (mostly) don't have bad intentions, but they are still ignorant - that's what annoys me.
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    (Original post by caroline147)
    Waste of money; it won't change anyone's views, it'll just confirm their prejudices.
    It's slow but steady progress. I don't think it's a waste at all. We need more.

    Moreover, I'm really glad I was raised in a Catholic environment, it hasn't stopped me relabelling myself as I've got older. I don't see anything wrong with labels as long as no one gets stuck under one.
    So that is your main agrument against 'labels' being forced onto kiddies?

    You were baptised into the faith before you knew about religion. So it doesn't matter what you do or think, because you'll be on record as a Catholic (unless you get excommunicated).
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    (Original post by innerhollow)
    Why not? By raising them in an environment where they are not exposed to any religions, you are essentially subscribing them to atheism.

    Read the quote below. Even the guys who made the poster said atheism can be indoctrinated.
    Who would raise a child where they are not exposed to religion? I think that is quite a hyperbole! But even if they didn't get exposed to in childhood, how does correlate to them not being religious later in life - I really don't see the link.

    I do think it is possible to indoctrinate atheism in a child. But that would be labelling a child ~ which is what the poster is about.
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    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    Who cares where they came from?

    I like how people are so easily distracted in life from the main message!
    What "It's bad to be anything other than athiest". And don't try and tell me anything else. This is an attack on religous people, nothing else.
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    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    It's slow but steady progress. I don't think it's a waste at all. We need more.
    I don't see any evidence that it's part of a process at all, frankly.
    & if we had more, surely you'd simply be attempting to fight indoctrination with yet more indoctrination? Excellent.

    So that is your main agrument against 'labels' being forced onto kiddies?

    You were baptised into the faith before you knew about religion. So it doesn't matter what you do or think, because you'll be on record as a Catholic (unless you get excommunicated).
    But why would anyone give a **** about how other people label them? Surely labels only really concern how we think of ourselves? If anything, it's a nice bonus to be on record as a Catholic, in a Pascal's Wager kind of way :ninja:

    I never said I supported forcing labels onto children anyway. In fact, I explicitly stated that there's nothing wrong with labels as long as they're coercion-free in the long-term.

    Plus, I'd sincerely like to see an example of parenting that is completely void of any opinions at all, it's inevitable that parents will pass on their views to their children in one way or another.
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    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    What does faith have to do with anything? If I had children, I would educated them on all the various religions and bring them up to be morally sound.

    I don't see how a belief in Allah, God, Jesus or Scientology has anything to do with their childhood? I think you'll have to convince me how it is important or relevant?
    It's important to religious people! That's like saying I'll have to convince you that God exists! :rolleyes: It's not something that can be explained, but basically, if you believe in heaven/paradise/whatever and hell/whatever and you believe that belief in God makes a difference in where you end up, then you'll want your child to believe in God as soon as they are able to have true faith.
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    (Original post by adamrules247)
    What "It's bad to be anything other than athiest". And don't try and tell me anything else. This is an attack on religous people, nothing else.
    No, it isn't against religious people. We don't mind religious people. Most of them are pleasant people.

    We are against religious indoctrination as a form of child abuse, which happens to be the case with religious people.
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    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    What does faith have to do with anything? If I had children, I would educated them on all the various religions and bring them up to be morally sound.

    I don't see how a belief in Allah, God, Jesus or Scientology has anything to do with their childhood? I think you'll have to convince me how it is important or relevant?
    Would you tell your kids that Santa's bringing them presents, or the tooth fairy's swapping their teeth for money, even though you know it's not true?

    I believe that a belief in God - taught in the right way - can be a comforting thing for children. It never did me any harm and I grew out of it just like I grew out of believing in the tooth fairy.

    From a cultural point of view, I think it's important to be able to identify with your family history and cultural background. Maybe this is more of a Jewish thing, or any religion/culture which isn't the "mainstream" in this country. If I didn't teach my kids religion at all, the family traditions and religion would be gone within a couple of generations. I don't want to force them to believe it, but I do want to teach them about it. There's a difference.
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    (Original post by caroline147)
    I don't see any evidence that it's part of a process at all, frankly.
    & if we had more, surely you'd simply be attempting to fight indoctrination with yet more indoctrination? Excellent.
    The poster isn't indoctrination. It is merely sending a message to people (mostly parents) that they should let the child decide, when he has the mental capacity to do so, which religion he wants to follow.

    I don't see what is so bad about that line of though?

    But why would anyone give a **** about how other people label them? Surely labels only really concern how we think of ourselves? If anything, it's a nice bonus to be on record as a Catholic, in a Pascal's Wager kind of way :ninja:
    Well, the Catholic Church certainly. It frequently boasts about the millions of followers. I think it is something to be ashamed of to be a Catholic and btw this isn't an attack against you. I am still waiting to be excommunicated.

    I never said I supported forcing labels onto children anyway. In fact, I explicitly stated that there's nothing wrong with labels as long as they're coercion-free in the long-term.

    Plus, I'd sincerely like to see an example of parenting that is completely void of any opinions at all, it's inevitable that parents will pass on their views to their children in one way or another.
    I think you're missing the point that isn't about the coercion of labels, but rather allowing the child to grow and decide for himself when he has the mental capacity to do so. That is being threatened when you have parents going further than expressing their own opinion.

    There is nothing wrong with an opinion, and no-one is suggesting for a moment that parents should be "void of any opinions". In fact, opinions from different people are great in forming a true image of the world. The problem is when it goes further than that.
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    (Original post by EskimoJo)
    It's important to religious people! That's like saying I'll have to convince you that God exists! :rolleyes: It's not something that can be explained, but basically, if you believe in heaven/paradise/whatever and hell/whatever and you believe that belief in God makes a difference in where you end up, then you'll want your child to believe in God as soon as they are able to have true faith.
    I think you have a point there. That is one of the many reasons I hate the Papacy. It has convinced peolpe that non-baptised babies won't see heaven. They made it up, and it has no basis in the bible.

    That aside, this is why we need these sort of posters and ad campaigns. To slowly erode the feeling of needing to indoctrinate babies.
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    (Original post by moregano)
    Would you tell your kids that Santa's bringing them presents, or the tooth fairy's swapping their teeth for money, even though you know it's not true?
    Santa, nor the tooth-fairy, send naughty kids to hell!

    I believe that a belief in God - taught in the right way - can be a comforting thing for children. It never did me any harm and I grew out of it just like I grew out of believing in the tooth fairy.
    Spirituality is different from religion. But I find it hard to believe that a child would encounter the difficult theological points of life, and need refuge!? Surely, the only thing they should worry about is playing in the park?

    From a cultural point of view, I think it's important to be able to identify with your family history and cultural background. Maybe this is more of a Jewish thing, or any religion/culture which isn't the "mainstream" in this country. If I didn't teach my kids religion at all, the family traditions and religion would be gone within a couple of generations. I don't want to force them to believe it, but I do want to teach them about it. There's a difference.
    Isn't it interesting how religion (something that is supposed to be individualistic & pure) is intertwined with culture.
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    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    The poster isn't indoctrination. It is merely sending a message to people (mostly parents) that they should let the child decide, when he has the mental capacity to do so, which religion he wants to follow.

    I don't see what is so bad about that line of though?
    I just thought it was a little ironic :p:
    "Let's solve the problem of indoctrination with mass propaganda!11!"

    Well, the Catholic Church certainly. It frequently boasts about the millions of followers. I think it is something to be ashamed of to be a Catholic and btw this isn't an attack against you. I am still waiting to be excommunicated.
    Hmm, why do you need to be excommunicated though? The way I look at it is that it doesn't mean anything to me, so it doesn't matter whether anyone else still considers me to be Catholic or not. If a witch believed she'd cursed me with bad luck, I wouldn't ask her to remove the curse, because I know it holds no power.


    I think you're missing the point that isn't about the coercion of labels, but rather allowing the child to grow and decide for himself when he has the mental capacity to do so. That is being threatened when you have parents going further than expressing their own opinion.

    There is nothing wrong with an opinion, and no-one is suggesting for a moment that parents should be "void of any opinions". In fact, opinions from different people are great in forming a true image of the world. The problem is when it goes further than that.
    I just don't think that labels and the capacity to make one's own decisions are necessarily mutually exclusive, that's all.
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    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    I think you have a point there. That is one of the many reasons I hate the Papacy. It has convinced peolpe that non-baptised babies won't see heaven. They made it up, and it has no basis in the bible.

    That aside, this is why we need these sort of posters and ad campaigns. To slowly erode the feeling of needing to indoctrinate babies.
    Haha! Babies? You only take babies to church or whatever with you because they're babies and can't be left home alone!
    I don't believe in baby baptism.
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    (Original post by caroline147)
    I just thought it was a little ironic :p:
    "Let's solve the problem of indoctrination with mass propaganda!11!"
    oh come on! It's only a poster :p:

    Hmm, why do you need to be excommunicated though? The way I look at it is that it doesn't mean anything to me, so it doesn't matter whether anyone else still considers me to be Catholic or not. If a witch believed she'd cursed me with bad luck, I wouldn't ask her to remove the curse, because I know it holds no power.
    Well, this isn't really relevant to the thread but I am ashamed to be a member of an organisation that has brought so much suffering and pain to the world. Saying that homosexuality is a "moral evil"; their policy with condoms in Africa; the covering of child rape by the Vatican; their historical antisemitism and agreement with the principle of slavery. Just a few of the top of my head. I wrote an extensive letter to the bishop of London.

    I just don't think that labels and the capacity to make one's own decisions are necessarily mutually exclusive, that's all.
    When you're an 8 year old, I think the situation is different. Filling the child with baseless fears and superstitious intended to frighten them is truly horrid.
 
 
 
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