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    Possibly the stupidest campaign i've ever seen, don't these losers have anything to do other than trying to convert everybody away from their religions?

    I'm going to label my kids whatever the **** I want and nobody can say **** about it
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    (Original post by EskimoJo)
    Haha! Babies? You only take babies to church or whatever with you because they're babies and can't be left home alone!
    I don't believe in baby baptism.
    But you made a great point. What a horrible notion to invent ~ Limbo. That little babies won't see heaven! That would terrify families into baptising their kiddies and thereby increasing the power & the influence of the church.
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    (Original post by adamrules247)
    Interestingly, the children used in that advert evangelical christians. I wonder why they look so happy, just saying you know......
    Lmao. I'm sure if they used a "non-believer" they would have been crying. They're kids mate... Fart noises make them laugh!
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    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    Santa, nor the tooth-fairy, send naughty kids to hell!
    I was never taught that naughty kids go to hell, and I don't intend to ever teach my own children that either. Religion doesn't have to be followed to the book, it can be interpreted and adjusted. Hardly anyone, if anyone at all, agrees with everything their religion teaches.

    Spirituality is different from religion. But I find it hard to believe that a child would encounter the difficult theological points of life, and need refuge!? Surely, the only thing they should worry about is playing in the park?
    Childhood isn't all about tea parties and kittens; kids can go through some pretty tough things which are hard to deal with for someone who hasn't had the chance to learn coping skills yet. Parents divorce, grandparents die, friends move away etc. Believing that there's someone "looking after you", or that your granny's gone on to a better place, can help.

    Isn't it interesting how religion (something that is supposed to be individualistic & pure) is intertwined with culture.
    I don't see what's wrong with that. And what are we supposed to do, just give up on the whole idea of culture and family tradition because it happens to be linked with a religion? Whether they practice the religion or not, a person who is, ethnically, Jewish, and refers to their child as the same, is still giving them a label, which is what the whole campaign is about in the first place.
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    i was made to pray in primary school along with everyone else, and i always prayed for crisps and sausages *shrug* slightly different from being 'labelled' at home but i suppose it has its similarities.
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    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    Well, this isn't really relevant to the thread but I am ashamed to be a member of an organisation that has brought so much suffering and pain to the world. Saying that homosexuality is a "moral evil"; their policy with condoms in Africa; the covering of child rape by the Vatican; their historical antisemitism and agreement with the principle of slavery. Just a few of the top of my head. I wrote an extensive letter to the bishop of London.
    Yeah, I can understand that. Good luck with it.

    When you're an 8 year old, I think the situation is different. Filling the child with baseless fears and superstitious intended to frighten them is truly horrid.
    I don't know, religion can have some benefits for children too. As long as the children are also filled with the urge to challenge anything & everything, they'll be fine. Religion just needs to be tempered with reason.
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    (Original post by Maxy-Q.O.S)
    I don't think labeling as in calling a child Glaswegian is the same as labelling a child a Muslim child or a Christian child or whatever! The difference is you can't choose where you were born but you can choose a religion and you can also choose not to be religious! I think a child should be educated on all religions and also why many people aren't religious! This should allow the child to be able to come to a decision themseleves when they are old enough. No child is born a Muslim, Jew or a Christian!!
    But then, the child is born to a family who live in Glasgow in the same was that the child is born to a family who practise Christianity, or whatever. You can't choose where you're born, you can't choose the religion of the family that gives birth to you. You can choose where you'll live later in life, and you can choose which religion to follow later in life.

    Dawkins said (in The God Delusion) that we shouldn't call a child (for example) a Christian child, but a child born to Christian parents. Therefore we should not call a child (for example) English, but a child born to English parents. The thing is that calling a child English inherently means that their parents are English. I see that in the same way as labelling children with a religion - to me, a Christian child means one that is born to Christian parents and raised in the Christian way of life.

    Personally I wouldn't label my children with any religion. I would explain to them my beliefs, when they were old enough to understand, and also explain other religions to them.
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    I see "Scientol-" on there. Therefore I disagree with ad.

    Also, I don't like ads that tell people how they should be raising their kids.
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    I like the advert. Most people are only a certain religion because their parents were that religion and they never had a choice.

    I was Christened and went to sunday school/church every sunday till i was about 10.
    Since then i've had discussions with my parents basically saying i don't beleive in god which they respect...

    They just said Christianity was a good way to be brought up, strong morals/sense of right and wrong which i agreed with.
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    (Original post by AshMcD)
    EDIT: The most infuriating thing I find is people who get their children christened but are not in any way religious.
    Most of the best state schools in Liverpool are Catholic so getting christened is something you have to do as all the protestant schools I know of are nothing short of a disgrace. The girls protestant school near mine has a creche ffs :sigh:

    The campaign is a nice idea but it won't work in reality, everyone gets labelled no matter what. It happens to adults and it happens to kids and it will continue happening forever.
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    (Original post by adamrules247)
    Interestingly, the children used in that advert evangelical christians. I wonder why they look so happy, just saying you know......
    So, only christian children can be truly happy? If it was a jewish/muslim/etc child pictured, they'd have unhappy faces because they belong to the ~wrong religion. Or God forbid, an Atheist child? He'd be crying his eyes out? Knowing his fate is to end up in Hell?

    ...now that's what I call "piffle" not that I'd ever use that word, ha
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    (Original post by SoapyDish)
    But then, the child is born to a family who live in Glasgow in the same was that the child is born to a family who practise Christianity, or whatever. You can't choose where you're born, you can't choose the religion of the family that gives birth to you. You can choose where you'll live later in life, and you can choose which religion to follow later in life.

    Dawkins said (in The God Delusion) that we shouldn't call a child (for example) a Christian child, but a child born to Christian parents. Therefore we should not call a child (for example) English, but a child born to English parents. The thing is that calling a child English inherently means that their parents are English. I see that in the same way as labelling children with a religion - to me, a Christian child means one that is born to Christian parents and raised in the Christian way of life.

    Personally I wouldn't label my children with any religion. I would explain to them my beliefs, when they were old enough to understand, and also explain other religions to them.
    Yes, but if you are born in Glasgow then you are, as an accident of birth, originally from Glasgow! If you decide to move away from Glasgow then that's fine but you are still originally from Glasgow! That will be on your birth certificate for as long as the paper remains healthy! Your parents are also an accident of birth because after all you cannot chose your parents! But religion is something that is subscribed to and that should be chosen! Is it right for a serial killer to raise his kid as a serial killer? Most people would agree that serial killers shoudln't be allowed to breed!

    Apart from that i think we are singing off the same hymn sheet here!
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    I love that advert
    I agree that religion can give children a sense of belonging, but surely it is enough to tell them your beliefs, and give them the option of participating throughout their childhood, so that they can be exposed to your beliefs, but ultimately choose for themselves how far they ascribe to them. I am an atheist, but I will teach my children about the beliefs of others when I have them, because I believe they have the right to know their options.
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    (Original post by AshMcD)

    EDIT: The most infuriating thing I find is people who get their children christened but are not in any way religious.
    Couldn't agree more. I was Christened, by unreligious parents. I've been told, time and time again, by people that I'm 'Christian'. Um..no I'm not..I don't believe in that religion.. "YES BUT U WERE CHRISTENED!" against my will you ******* bell end. It infuriates me.

    Though not as bad as the whole "if your mothers jewish- YOU'RE jewish"
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    Surprisingly, I disagree. If someone sees value in religion, then they're going to want to pass it on to their children. Moreover, if religion is an important part of your life, then you're not going to exclude children from it.

    (Original post by Lust of a Gardener)
    Your religous beliefs shouldn't be your identity, this, I believe, serves only to divide a nation.
    So, you're essentially putting The Nation before God? No religious person will ever accept that, and quite rightly so - the very idea of national communities is artificial. They are silly inventions used to justify political centralisation.

    By bringing a child up in a highly religous enviornment, you are creating a 'Them and us' scenario. This was very apparent in Northern Ireland during 'The troubles'; people would only associate with those of the same faith. Catholic and Protestant communities have to be seperated by 'Peace walls' in order to stop the two fighting.
    Yet shockingly I - admittedly not in Northern Ireland - managed to have Presbyterian and Agnostic neighbours who were perfectly pleasant to me. The only 'peace wall' we had was a hedge.

    It's nonsense for you to suggest that having an identity is somehow divisive. Individuality is part of what makes us human, and identifying ourselves in certain ways is all part of that. Of course that does mean we something associate more with people who share those identities, but so what? If that's 'divisive' then so be it.
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    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    But you made a great point. What a horrible notion to invent ~ Limbo. That little babies won't see heaven! That would terrify families into baptising their kiddies and thereby increasing the power & the influence of the church.
    The Catholic Church - wherein the idea was first posited - doesn't currently teach that, and indeed it was never accepted orthodoxy. Still, it wasn't just invented out of thin air - the idea of Baptism to cleanse a child of original sin is far older than the established Christian church.

    I'm not sure quite why not going to Heaven is so bad a thing. I think the whole idea of demons with tridents can be put aside as a fairly poor understanding of the notion of Hell. Just as sin is the absence of Godliness, I generally assume that Hell is the absence of God. Doesn't mean it's overtly unpleasant.

    (Original post by Lord Hysteria)
    Santa, nor the tooth-fairy, send naughty kids to hell!
    Neither does God, so far as I understand Christian theology.

    Isn't it interesting how religion (something that is supposed to be individualistic & pure) is intertwined with culture.
    Since when was religion supposed to be individualistic? In the Christian faith, the idea of communing with fellow members of your faith is one of the most important directions given to us.

    As for being intertwined with culture - of course it is. Any group, institution or indeed shared set of influences will create a culture given sufficient time.
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    I think it's fine as long as you still allow your kids to think for themselves and choose their own path. In fact, introducing them mildly to a religion you believe in is probably quite a nice thing and gives a sense of belonging.

    One of my parents was (loosely) religious, and I was christened - although mainly out of family tradition I suppose. Anyway, going to church once every year or two was fun when I was little, and as I grew older I was just naturally an atheist. No problems, and I got some very nice and expensive presents from that christening.

    Edit: In fact, by the time I realised the concept of 'god' etc. I wasn't interested in it. I think the problems are when parents don't bring up their kids properly to make up their own minds, and force them into things.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    Surprisingly, I disagree. If someone sees value in religion, then they're going to want to pass it on to their children. Moreover, if religion is an important part of your life, then you're not going to exclude children from it.
    I'm not trying to exclude children from religous belief, I'm simply stressing the point that it should be the children, not the parents, who decide whether or not they want to pursue a religous life.

    So, you're essentially putting The Nation before God? No religious person will ever accept that, and quite rightly so - the very idea of national communities is artificial. They are silly inventions used to justify political centralisation.
    I think you're jumping the gun here. I never said that I wanted a religous free society - I understand that many people find comfort in a religous community - I was simply discussing whether or not children should make the choice themselves of whether they wanted to embrace religion, or not.

    When you are raised in a religous enviorment from a young age, you tend to identify yourself solely as a Catholic or a Protestant or a Muslim. Where I live, people of different religous backgrounds tend not to mix, instead preferring to stay in their own communities, socialising with people of the same beliefs - I certainly wouldn't deam this as admirable trait of religous identity. While the country has come on leaps and bounds, there are still divides; Religion seems to have become the primary distinguishing feature between individiuals - It has become part of our identity, something for others to judge or make assumptions about.

    I believe that, by allowing children to make a choice later on in life concerning their religous beliefs, Religion becomes less of a distinguishing trait, like skin colour or nationality, and more of a personal choice, like your favourite bands or singers - That's probably a bad example, but I hope you understand.

    Yet shockingly I - admittedly not in Northern Ireland - managed to have Presbyterian and Agnostic neighbours who were perfectly pleasant to me. The only 'peace wall' we had was a hedge.

    It's nonsense for you to suggest that having an identity is somehow divisive. Individuality is part of what makes us human, and identifying ourselves in certain ways is all part of that. Of course that does mean we something associate more with people who share those identities, but so what? If that's 'divisive' then so be it.
    Admittedly, you weren't brought up in a community polarised by political and religous divides. But, that said, there are still occasions when religion can become a negative trait - The whole controversey surrounding Islam is a great example of how people have used Religous idenity to create social divides; people automatically assume the worst about the Mulsim community, and individiual Muslims. It was the same in the past when people automatically assumed that all Irish Catholics were in the IRA, and that all Northern Irish people were terrorists.

    Regarding your comment about identity being divisive, I'm not arguing that individiuality should not be present in society, I simply believe that when children are raised within a religous enviornment they tend to associate their identity far too strongly with their religous beliefs. Religous belief should not be something to divide a nation or a community, it should be something that is regcognised as a personal choice, and something to be respected.
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    (Original post by L i b)
    The Catholic Church - wherein the idea was first posited - doesn't currently teach that, and indeed it was never accepted orthodoxy. Still, it wasn't just invented out of thin air - the idea of Baptism to cleanse a child of original sin is far older than the established Christian church.
    It taught it for centuries as dogma and for the thousands of uneducated families that would have frightened them into having their children baptised immediately. Yes, it may not be taught or preached now, but that doesn't mean it wasn't the case before.

    Also, you're confusing the purpose of conventional baptism with the concept of Limbo. I am not disputing the former, but I am merely saying that Limbo has no basis in the bible. It was invented by Augustine of Hippo to install fear into people.

    I'm not sure quite why not going to Heaven is so bad a thing. I think the whole idea of demons with tridents can be put aside as a fairly poor understanding of the notion of Hell. Just as sin is the absence of Godliness, I generally assume that Hell is the absence of God. Doesn't mean it's overtly unpleasant.
    That is one of the Christian concepts about hell.

    There are 33,000 + Christian denominations all claiming to understand God, so you're bound to get a few 'overlaps'. I also don't really get how you make extra-ordinary claims for the 'Christian faith' when, in fact, you mean one of the many.

    Neither does God, so far as I understand Christian theology.
    I can tell you for a fact that Catholic children and Muslim children get told about hell.

    I suggest some revision of your understanding of Christian theology .

    Since when was religion supposed to be individualistic? In the Christian faith, the idea of communing with fellow members of your faith is one of the most important directions given to us.
    And no wonder some are powerful organisations.

    It isn't enough in these faiths to believe in your heart, but you have to make outward steps to pro-claim it and it becomes an international organisation. It really isn't about the essence of God, but rather the meetings, parties and plays.

    As for being intertwined with culture - of course it is. Any group, institution or indeed shared set of influences will create a culture given sufficient time.
    I think it depends, at the end of the day, if you think that is a 'good' thing or a 'bad' thing ~ the influence of religion in culture.
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    As a Christian I will raise my children to know about God and my beliefs but at the end of the day they can choose what they want. I want my children to be happy with the choices they've made and I wouldn't dream of trying to convert them. I don't like it when people try to preach to me, so why should I do it to anyone else, least of all my children.
 
 
 
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