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    (Original post by jrhartley)
    Because I answered the question, only to be confronted with the most basic question. Where do we draw the line? Are we to be expected to have to define the very meaning of every word that we use in an answer because someone can't actually use their initiative? I'm sorry, but a line has to be drawn, its for their own good - they'll just end up getting roasted in the workplace / at uni if they are truly this in-adept.
    Someone, who was considerably wiser than yourself, once said: "Always be kind, for everyone is fighting a hard battle"
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    You've got to draw the line at being kind to the absurdly lazy. Someone who was considerably wiser than you said "God helps those who help themselves".
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    (Original post by jrhartley)
    You've got to draw the line at being kind to the absurdly lazy. Someone who was considerably wiser than you said "God helps those who help themselves".
    And you're God? get over yourself
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    (Original post by Jairaj)
    And you're God? get over yourself
    Erm. No. Learn to read and try again.

    I love the way you've taken it upon yourself to take me to task. Remind me again - what useful advice have you contributed thus far to others in this sub-forum?
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    I like this kid already. ha!
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    (Original post by jrhartley)
    No. Massive oversupply of students relative to positions. Add in the global market (have you seen how cheap renders in China are over FTP?) and you realise that in real terms your salary - if you are lucky to have one - will be going down in real terms vs. other professions.

    Its true for most roles, unfortunately. My guess as to jobs with greater protection from salary erosion: Medicine and Law. People need healthcare, people will get more litigious.
    Won't people always need buildings whether it will be residential or commercial. The population of the UK is only expanding, eventually they will run out of space and start building upwards etc. Surely won't architects be an important factor in all of this?
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    (Original post by thatgirl07)
    Won't people always need buildings whether it will be residential or commercial. The population of the UK is only expanding, eventually they will run out of space and start building upwards etc. Surely won't architects be an important factor in all of this?
    Yes, naturally people will continue to need buildings - there will be replacement of some existing stock and additional stock added. The UK population isn't actually growing that much, in fact, and there will probably start to be net emmigration, as has happened in Ireland and Portugal after their debt crisis (ours next one should appear in early 2011 - mid 2011). So that will keep numbers down.

    Plus there is the issue of distrubution of property. Lots of people own 10s or 100s of properties, whilst lots of other people can't afford to buy a home.

    Architects design next to know housing as a proportion of the stock built in the UK. It is pattern book stuff by the likes of Redrow, Wimpey, Persimmon. They have a number of different designs they've used for years and they bosh them out. No architect required. A lot of retail - out of town shopping centres -is similar - sheds like IKEA, Tesco, mass retailing is increasingly done in house (and IKEA shed is an IKEA shed, regardless). So architects no needed there either.

    So you have architects working on high end residential and high end commerical and office and cultural / sports / infrastrucutre stuff and maybe some social housing. Schools are pretty much off the agenda as you know and hospitals won't be doing much. So you have a huge imbalance of students coming out each year only for maybe a quarter or a third getting jobs. Meanwhile there are lots of fully qualifieds who are being laid off and going for Part 2 or even Part 1 positions, i.e. competing with students for the positions they've historically filled.

    Too many universities offering K100 / K100-similar courses churning out too many students for an industry that is gradually withering.
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    (Original post by thatgirl07)
    Won't people always need buildings whether it will be residential or commercial. The population of the UK is only expanding, eventually they will run out of space and start building upwards etc. Surely won't architects be an important factor in all of this?
    listen to what people are saying on the forum. there is an oversupply of graduates to positions already. and yes people will always need buildings in the long run, but the population expands slowly and people can make do with substandard buildings for quite a while. Architecture practises are having to fight for commissions by undercharging or working for free, that's not going to change dramatically for a while. what I'm trying to say is, don't get your hopes up. oh and everyone on here who still has any optimism should watch this...

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vlLvi...layer_embedded
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    If you cant pay your rent... http://io9.com/5702972/recent-graduate-lives-in-an-egg
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    (Original post by jrhartley)
    Erm. No. Learn to read and try again.

    I love the way you've taken it upon yourself to take me to task. Remind me again - what useful advice have you contributed thus far to others in this sub-forum?


    I was actually so distracted by your arrogant rudeness that I felt compelled to tell you how much of an idiot you were (and still are). A word of warning, such an attitude won't get you very far in this industry, particularly as so much of the work is team based.

    In reference to this kid's question- Part 1 Architecture graduates earn very little, if anything. I worked at a top london firm all summer and the pay was appalling, but the work was fascinating, and the people were great.

    On the flip side of this, I am personally acquainted with David Chipperfield's son and can safely say that his father is very well off. So, if you're willing to struggle in your twenties, have vast bundles of talent, interpersonal skills (which jrhartley seems to lack) and are therefore able to make it to the 'premier league' of "starchitects" then there are rich pickings. Good luck!
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    It is a real shame that most people believe that architects earn a stack. I haven't even started the course and I've got people saying to me "oooh, you'll be rich". It is difficult to see the real situation without doing a heck of a lot of research. The more I learn about this career, the more I realise it is miles apart from the luxury that people make it out to be.
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    (Original post by JK471993)
    It is a real shame that most people believe that architects earn a stack. I haven't even started the course and I've got people saying to me "oooh, you'll be rich". It is difficult to see the real situation without doing a heck of a lot of research. The more I learn about this career, the more I realise it is miles apart from the luxury that people make it out to be.
    It's tough, but if you love it than quality of life will compensate for monetary loss. Depends on what your priorities are. People who go into this industry because they want to make money will be, most likely, sadly disappointed.
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    (Original post by Jairaj)
    It's tough, but if you love it than quality of life will compensate for monetary loss. Depends on what your priorities are. People who go into this industry because they want to make money will be, most likely, sadly disappointed.
    As long as I will be able to support a wife and two children I think I can cope. I just hope that I have the passion/motivation to work for such a long time in the field. I can only gage that with the few weeks of work experience I've had so far.
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    (Original post by Jairaj)
    I was actually so distracted by your arrogant rudeness that I felt compelled to tell you how much of an idiot you were (and still are). A word of warning, such an attitude won't get you very far in this industry, particularly as so much of the work is team based.

    In reference to this kid's question- Part 1 Architecture graduates earn very little, if anything. I worked at a top london firm all summer and the pay was appalling, but the work was fascinating, and the people were great.

    On the flip side of this, I am personally acquainted with David Chipperfield's son and can safely say that his father is very well off. So, if you're willing to struggle in your twenties, have vast bundles of talent, interpersonal skills (which jrhartley seems to lack) and are therefore able to make it to the 'premier league' of "starchitects" then there are rich pickings. Good luck!
    At last! You've actually contributed something relevant to this forum, albeit a point that has been made so many time is it now redundant. Well done you!

    You have really done us all a great service and I feel well and truly put in my place. I also feel very grateful that you have deigned to cast judgement on my personality on the basis of one comment in an architecture forum, I will take on board your comments and moderate my conduct accordingly, particularly given you are 'personally acquainted with' David Chipperfield's son. Not 'I have met', not 'I am friends with', but 'am personally acquainted with'. Wonderful. I feel like I've entered a Dickensian novel.

    Of course, that distraction of my rudeness is the perfect excuse for you not having read my comment properly and fired off a wayward response. I trust you will make sure not to commit such gaffs in your future preferred career course, where attention to detail will matter more. Best not get carried away trying to outsmart someone that you catch yourself out. Stay focused, champ.
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    (Original post by JK471993)
    As long as I will be able to support a wife and two children I think I can cope. I just hope that I have the passion/motivation to work for such a long time in the field. I can only gage that with the few weeks of work experience I've had so far.
    No way, not with the inflation Ben Bernanke, Mervyn King and JC Trichet have got planned for us all. If you think you can support a wife (not working) and two kids on £30K a year (remember that's a pre-tax number), you are going to have a pretty miserable life.
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    (Original post by jrhartley)
    So you have a huge imbalance of students coming out each year only for maybe a quarter or a third getting jobs. Meanwhile there are lots of fully qualifieds who are being laid off and going for Part 2 or even Part 1 positions, i.e. competing with students for the positions they've historically filled.

    Too many universities offering K100 / K100-similar courses churning out too many students for an industry that is gradually withering.
    My friend is second year and just got a job working in a small architectural practice in Hammersmith. She is having a gap year but will be returning next year for third year.

    Why is it that a 2nd year from my uni can get a architectural job and be paid, yet other part 1's and part 2's are struggling to find anything?
    Despite many universities churning out an over supply of graduates, many can't even cad a simple section.
    The amount of times I have seen students from other universities cadding a straight line as a ground line. No wonder they are not hired.
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    (Original post by JK471993)
    It is a real shame that most people believe that architects earn a stack. I haven't even started the course and I've got people saying to me "oooh, you'll be rich". It is difficult to see the real situation without doing a heck of a lot of research. The more I learn about this career, the more I realise it is miles apart from the luxury that people make it out to be.
    People who know nothing about architecture equate architects with surgeons and lawyers and therefore, assume, wrongly, that they get similar salaries. This is one of the most widespread misconceptions about architects by the general public.

    There also seems to be a bizarre belief on many forums that people who write about architects salaries are somehow 'double agents' trying to put people off of joining the profession, as if somehow that will mean those already in it will see their prospects magically enhanced by one fewer person taking up the course. Everything you read here by the variety of people who have Part 1 and those with Part 2 is entirely representative. There is no hidden agenda. A lot of of people walk into this career with the belief it is sketching and chatting with clients and OK money and generally a worthy and slightly glamorous profession. The reality is that when you start, 100% of your time is in front of a computer working on some crap design someone else has done. When you get a bit more experienced you can do a bit more, but unless you have the money and contacts to go it alone when you are qualified (no one will hire you without lots of experience unless its one of daddy's friends or you do it for free) then you are looking at another 10 years staring at a computer for about 75% of your working time (min).

    The thing is, 7 years doesn't sound too bad. You forget you are really looking at 8 years plus as few people will get the right experience to do Part III straight away. With this market, you could be looking at 8-10 years before you have a good enough PEDR (record of experience) to get your Part III. Then you will be looking at maybe 5 years minimum of working at a firm as a fully qualified before you can even think about going it alone (if you've got other money to help set you up, as you won't have enough left over from earning £35K as an experienced part III).

    So you could be looking at around 15 years of a lot of tedious graft. That's a chunk of your life. If you're cool with that, great - get involved. I for one hadn't factored in what was required after Part III. Before I started I wrongly assumed that by the time you had gotten to Part III you would be in a strong enough position to go alone and win business.

    The way architecture is taught in the UK means that this is almost always not the case.
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    (Original post by jrhartley)
    No way, not with the inflation Ben Bernanke, Mervyn King and JC Trichet have got planned for us all. If you think you can support a wife (not working) and two kids on £30K a year (remember that's a pre-tax number), you are going to have a pretty miserable life.
    My Dad seems to do okay on £25,000, with three children and a wife who's been redundant for a year. I'll see how it pans out: I could be lucky or I could not.
    How old are you, if you don't mind me asking? What sort of wage are you on? Do you have any children/wife? Did you expect to be earning any money before enrolling on the course?
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    (Original post by yeahyeahyeahs)
    My friend is second year and just got a job working in a small architectural practice in Hammersmith. She is having a gap year but will be returning next year for third year.

    Why is it that a 2nd year from my uni can get a architectural job and be paid, yet other part 1's and part 2's are struggling to find anything?
    Despite many universities churning out an over supply of graduates, many can't even cad a simple section.
    The amount of times I have seen students from other universities cadding a straight line as a ground line. No wonder they are not hired.
    Thanks yeahyeahyeahs, loving the anecdotal again. There are thousands of unemployed architects across Europe (75% of all registered architects in Ireland, 50% in Portugal) but your friend has a job in Hammersmith is the exception that proves that the architect unemployment crisis is actually, just a myth. Why has she got a job when thousands don't? I don't know. Great rack?

    I think some of those thousands of unemployed architects around Europe, many of whom have actually had stuff built (you know, in the real world, not just on CGIs) probably can draw a section line

    Frankly I'd be more concerned about the logic and critical reasoning abilities of my staff, rather than their ability to draw a section line. You want people who are sharp and switched on.
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    (Original post by JK471993)
    My Dad seems to do okay on £25,000, with three children and a wife who's been redundant for a year. I'll see how it pans out: I could be lucky or I could not.
    How old are you, if you don't mind me asking? What sort of wage are you on? Do you have any children/wife? Did you expect to be earning any money before enrolling on the course?
    I'm old - I worked in the City before which basically means that I have some money to support me through the course (expensive as everyone says) and also the fact that architecture pays badly. Was on £19K as a Part 1, £27K now as a Part II - but there's very little job stability so its all contract based for everyone at the mo. One of my friends just started today a Part II contract on £20K a year and I met with a large London firm in September. They asked me what my salary expectations were - I said - 'in line with RIBA payscale' (which means about £25K for a London Part II) and he said 'well, in light of the current climate, we are looking to offer around £21K to Part IIs). As many others have pointed out, a lot of Part 1s are working for free just to get their experience.
 
 
 
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