Sentences for the London bombers Watch

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Mandy.Massey
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#41
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#41
I don't think there should be any question of descrating the Koran in public OR in private. The Islamic community would find that completely offensive. One might argue that they* hate us anyway, but nonetheless I see no reason to offend them further.

However I quite agree that we should not have to pay to keep these terrorists in our jails, the cost to the taxpayer will be huge seeing as they will need to be kept in secure accomodation, and probably kept on suicide watch as well.

I'm not overly keen on having this other terrorist extradicted into Britain either, another prisoner at greater cost to the British people.

Obviously I don't want these people to go free, so I therefore think capital punishment should be an available option. However, no one was actually killed by these men, depsite their best intentions so killing them might seem slightly extreme.

So, a little gentle torture to get as much information out of them as they have, then we extradite them to the US for offences there. Once we've got rid of them we can delight in the knowledge that we treated them appropriately, and trust that they'll now be dealt with fairly abroad.

*I refer to a small minority of extremists, not the Islamic community as a whole.
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Carl
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#42
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(Original post by andyukguy)
Damn, I was hoping you had. Some people (normally neo-nazi's, but more generally white power groups) deny the Holocaust and therefore call it the Holohoax. My point was that if people try and deny things like that, things that there are no doubts happened, then the UK Government denying that the prisoners were tortured (something so few people would think would happen) if the rumour ever started would be believed by everyone.

Andrew
Your sentance doesn't make sense. The Holocaust clearly happened, and we don't believe holocaust denyers. I get that bit. But you are arguing that if the UK denied such acts of desecration (and perhaps mental torture) then the public would believe the government, right? I have two problems with that

-I believe that the UK government is complicit in acts of torture, especially though a process known as 'extraordinary rendition' (I'll PM you an explaination if you want to know what that is).

-Second, even if the UK government successfully denied such acts of desecration, that would not make the act of desecration that had taken place any less morally wrong.

-Also, remember the accusations of desecration at Guantanamo. Despite the US' successful denial and Newsweek withdrawing its accusations, the accusations themselves caused great anger in the Muslim world.
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andyukguy
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#43
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(Original post by Carl)
Your sentance doesn't make sense. The Holocaust clearly happened, and we don't believe holocaust denyers. I get that bit. But you are arguing that if the UK denied such acts of desecration (and perhaps mental torture) then the public would believe the government, right? I have two problems with that

-I believe that the UK government is complicit in acts of torture, especially though a process known as 'extraordinary rendition' (I'll PM you an explaination if you want to know what that is).

-Second, even if the UK government successfully denied such acts of desecration, that would not make the act of desecration that had taken place any less morally wrong.

-Also, remember the accusations of desecration at Guantanamo. Despite the US' successful denial and Newsweek withdrawing its accusations, the accusations themselves caused great anger in the Muslim world.
I still don't see why anyone would find out about this? What sane newspaper will take up the case of what's happened to these "poor" people that strapped bombs to themselves in an effort to kill as many people as they could? Not even the Guardian!

I honestly believe that the majority of Britains wont be expecting any sort of torture so it'll be very easy if any sort of rumour arrived for the UK Government to deny it and be believed.

I know what e.r. is - basically shipping people off for torture in regimes where it's more of a normal occurrence. A favourite of the U.S. Government I gather.

Morally wrong? I think we'd still hold the Moral high ground

Andrew
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Carl
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#44
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#44
(Original post by andyukguy)
I still don't see why anyone would find out about this? What sane newspaper will take up the case of what's happened to these "poor" people that strapped bombs to themselves in an effort to kill as many people as they could? Not even the Guardian!
That's not my point. Even if such acts could be successfully suppressed (and I'm not saying that they couldn't or wouldn't) they'd still be IMO morally wrong, offensive and abhorrent. I guess that's where we differ.
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andyukguy
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#45
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(Original post by Carl)
That's not my point. Even if such acts could be successfully suppressed (and I'm not saying that they couldn't or wouldn't) they'd still be IMO morally wrong, offensive and abhorrent. I guess that's where we differ.
Indeed, I think human rights are earned not assumed. Their decisions to try and kill people in the name of a silly cult means they forfeit their rights. My opinion tis all.

Andrew
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Person
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#46
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#46
So we are now into killing brainwashed people who haven't even killed anyone?
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technik
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#47
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#47
(Original post by Northumbrian)
So we are now into killing brainwashed people who haven't even killed anyone?
intent is good enough for me
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andyukguy
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#48
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(Original post by Northumbrian)
So we are now into killing brainwashed people who haven't even killed anyone?
Pathetic! Hang your head in shame for even thinking of defending these people. Lets look at the facts:

The reason they didn't kill anyone is because they didn't make the bombs properly. They made bombs, they planted bombs, the timers did go off luckily the payload wasn't delivered.

You think they should get a lesser punishment simply because they can't manufacture a reliable bomb?

Andrew
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Carl
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#49
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#49
(Original post by andyukguy)
Indeed, I think human rights are earned not assumed. Their decisions to try and kill people in the name of a silly cult means they forfeit their rights. My opinion tis all.

Andrew
Where did I mention human rights? The act of desecration is abhorrent and morally wrong. The act of deliberate offense makes it more wrong! Nowhere do I even mention human rights.
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mobb_theprequel
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#50
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(Original post by andyukguy)
Their decisions to try and kill people in the name of a silly cult means they forfeit their rights.
I would agree with this particular statement.
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andyukguy
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#51
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(Original post by Carl)
Where did I mention human rights? The act of desecration is abhorrent and morally wrong. The act of deliberate offense makes it more wrong! Nowhere do I even mention human rights.
I personally think human rights are shaped from our inherent morals. Therefore when people are shown to have no morals I think their human rights should suffer too.

Andrew
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Carl
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#52
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#52
(Original post by andyukguy)
I personally think human rights are shaped from our inherent morals. Therefore when people are shown to have no morals I think their human rights should suffer too.

Andrew
Yes but to carry out an act which is morally abhorrent to millions of peaceful Muslims is still wrong, whether they know about it or not. This is not a question of rights, but of morals!
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andyukguy
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#53
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(Original post by Carl)
Yes but to carry out an act which is morally abhorrent to millions of peaceful Muslims is still wrong, whether they know about it or not. This is not a question of rights, but of morals!
So if the millions of peaceful Muslims deemed it morally wrong to even lock these people up we shouldn't?

Andrew
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Carl
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#54
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(Original post by andyukguy)
So if the millions of peaceful Muslims deemed it morally wrong to even lock these people up we shouldn't?

Andrew
That's irrelevant because millions of peaceful Muslims will, I'm sure, be happy that these extremists are facing justice.
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Kew
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#55
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#55
(Original post by andyukguy)
No, it would be satisfying to watch (should be put on TV!) however it'll probably do more harm than good. I personally think we should make their lives hell, once we've got all info we can from them we should take up some of my suggestions. They're so into Islam they'd blow themselves up for it, I think desecrating the Koran will probably be the best form of mental torture.
What a sadistic view.

Yes, what they did was wrong; but two wrongs don't make a right. End of.
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andyukguy
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#56
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(Original post by Carl)
That's irrelevant because millions of peaceful Muslims will, I'm sure, be happy that these extremists are facing justice.
Nicely dodged.

Andrew
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andyukguy
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#57
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(Original post by kew96158)
What a sadistic view.

Yes, what they did was wrong; but two wrongs don't make a right. End of.
So your parents told you eh? It's not worth living life based on a saying however each case must be taken on its own merits.

The word criminal is applied to people that society has judged have done something wrong. Taking away their right to freedom (prison) is what society judges as the appropriate action to make up for their wrong doing. Two wrongs, do make a right in this case because naturally if someone had done nothing "wrong" and was denied the right to freedom (put in prison) everyone would be very upset.

Andrew
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Dreama
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#58
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The very society they attacked is a fair and a Just one.

By killing them we are merely succumbing to an extremist punishment, which is no charcteristic of the British they seek to destroy.

Lock them up forever, no early release, no insanity plea-bargaining, just bye-byes.
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andyukguy
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(Original post by Dreama)
The very society they attacked is a fair and a Just one.

By killing them we are merely succumbing to an extremist punishment, which is no charcteristic of the British they seek to destroy.

Lock them up forever, no early release, no insanity plea-bargaining, just bye-byes.
You are aware that that would cost the British so much more than simply killing them? Why make us suffer more than we have done so already?

Andrew
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Carl
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#60
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#60
(Original post by andyukguy)
So if the millions of peaceful Muslims deemed it morally wrong to even lock these people up we shouldn't?

Andrew
Use your common sense. What has being Muslim got to do with the moral implications of locking terrorists up?
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