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Operations division... watch

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    (Original post by unknown demon)
    After listening to several opts guys at Goldman complaining incessantly about hating their jobs and feeling dreadful every sunday night because work is the next day. I would really not recommend this at all. Bonus potential isn't anything to shout about (£4k anyone?)

    Each to their own. There was a guy who got into GS, did operations for a year and managed to get a way into trading somehow. Can be done, exceptionally rare case.

    But yep, an internship can lead to FO opportunities if you play your cards right.

    this really worries me, is there something about the way goldmans specifically treats their ops staff particulary badly compared to other banks?
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    (Original post by phonebooth)
    this really worries me, is there something about the way goldmans specifically treats their ops staff particulary badly compared to other banks?
    Every bank opts staff will be not exactly be treated 'well' or anything associated with that word. Even after meeting several people at VP/MD level and them suggesting people they'd think I'm better suited to speaking to when it comes to opts they've always replied 'well I don't think that you'd want to work there.' On a side note, even journalists mock BO staff.

    To two of my very close friends who work/ed in FO positions 'mate, its called back office for a reason.'

    Interestingly and quite bizarrely, there are two at goldman in opts with degrees in dance and sports science. Says alot.

    Saying that if you want an 'easyish' life and great pay relative to other industries and aren't so bothered about the reputation of the job then go for it.
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    Just wonder that is the treatment the same for Technology division as Ops?
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    (Original post by unknown demon)
    Every bank opts staff will be not exactly be treated 'well' or anything associated with that word. Even after meeting several people at VP/MD level and them suggesting people they'd think I'm better suited to speaking to when it comes to opts they've always replied 'well I don't think that you'd want to work there.' On a side note, even journalists mock BO staff.

    To two of my very close friends who work/ed in FO positions 'mate, its called back office for a reason.'

    Saying that if you want an 'easyish' life and great pay relative to other industries and aren't so bothered about the reputation of the job then go for it.
    Outside of the banking bubble, this is totally valid, but when you immerse yourself in the industry you start to lose your sense of self worth if you're not in Front Office. It's why 8 out of 11 interns in Ops at BarCap turned down offers in 2008.
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    (Original post by loggins)
    Outside of the banking bubble, this is totally valid, but when you immerse yourself in the industry you start to lose your sense of self worth if you're not in Front Office. It's why 8 out of 11 interns in Ops at BarCap turned down offers in 2008.
    Unsurprising. At least they can leverage those offers to get interviews (FO) though so surely, its not all bad?
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    (Original post by unknown demon)
    Unsurprising. At least they can leverage those offers to get interviews (FO) though so surely, its not all bad?
    Well, a couple had no problem, but others seem to be struggling a bit.
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    Would one take a operations grad offer over nothing? ie waiting for the next grad recruitment cycle?
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    Outside of the banking bubble, this is totally valid, but when you immerse yourself in the industry you start to lose your sense of self worth if you're not in Front Office. It's why 8 out of 11 interns in Ops at BarCap turned down offers in 2008.
    That's a really good point, and I'd say the only way to resist this thinking if you're in BO is to mentally put yourself outside the bubble. I know people in BO who are perfectly happy earning their decent salaries (compared to the rest of the population) and working relatively few hours, but tend to talk about traders like outsiders do (i.e. trying to mock how they have signed their life away, caricaturing their shallowness, and so on.)

    If you can do that it's a comfortable job. But if your dream is to be an investment banker then you will always be unhappy in BO.
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    (Original post by Bramlow)
    That's a really good point, and I'd say the only way to resist this thinking if you're in BO is to mentally put yourself outside the bubble. I know people in BO who are perfectly happy earning their decent salaries (compared to the rest of the population) and working relatively few hours, but tend to talk about traders like outsiders do (i.e. trying to mock how they have signed their life away, caricaturing their shallowness, and so on.)

    If you can do that it's a comfortable job. But if your dream is to be an investment banker then you will always be unhappy in BO.
    Real talk.
    How do people find MO?
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    (Original post by loggins)
    Yup, i can vouch for this. :yep:
    Does this mean you did your internship in ops?
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    (Original post by abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz)
    Does this mean you did your internship in ops?
    I've done a few internships. The first was. I wouldn't rule out an internship in Ops, it's a good place to learn and it's helped me go on to secure a FO job. But don't take a grad job there if you have FO aspirations.
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    (Original post by loggins)
    I've done a few internships. The first was. I wouldn't rule out an internship in Ops, it's a good place to learn and it's helped me go on to secure a FO job. But don't take a grad job there if you have FO aspirations.
    how did you manage to do a few? or are you on a course which is longer than 3 years?
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    (Original post by abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz)
    how did you manage to do a few? or are you on a course which is longer than 3 years?
    Well, 3 year undergrad + Masters makes it easy enough to fit in spring programmes, autumn insights, 2 summer internships and some work experience in Easter of third year.
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    (Original post by loggins)
    Well, 3 year undergrad + Masters makes it easy enough to fit in spring programmes, autumn insights, 2 summer internships and some work experience in Easter of third year.
    ah right thanks, suppose i could probably fit in a similar number since i'm on a 4 year (provided i get any offers ofc :p:) but who knows
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    (Original post by abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz)
    ah right thanks, suppose i could probably fit in a similar number since i'm on a 4 year (provided i get any offers ofc :p:) but who knows
    Just snatch whatever work experience you can get, back office, middle office, accounting, it's all transferable and will help you get into FO more than doing nothing will!
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    (Original post by loggins)
    I've done a few internships. The first was. I wouldn't rule out an internship in Ops, it's a good place to learn and it's helped me go on to secure a FO job. But don't take a grad job there if you have FO aspirations.
    How likely it is to secure a FO(i mean IBD rather than trading) graduate offer from Operations Internship?

    I've got an offer from JPM Operations and HSBC Finance. But my preference is IBD> Finance> Operations.

    Personally, i think an internship in JPM Operations would be more helpful than Finance in HSBC to secure a FO graduate offer, but don't know how likely it is? What's the chance?Is there more than 50% chance?:rolleyes:

    And, JPM Operations VS. HSBC Finance, which one would u choose if you've got these 2 offers and if your ultimate goal is a graduate IBD offer from a BB bank?

    PS: HSBC Global Banking & Market isn't a BB bank?

    I'm really confused, any thoughts would be helpful.
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    (Original post by elva2sam)
    How likely it is to secure a FO(i mean IBD rather than trading) graduate offer from Operations Internship?

    I've got an offer from JPM Operations and HSBC Finance. But my preference is IBD> Finance> Operations.

    Personally, i think an internship in JPM Operations would be more helpful than Finance in HSBC to secure a FO graduate offer, but don't know how likely it is? What's the chance?Is there more than 50% chance?:rolleyes:

    And, JPM Operations VS. HSBC Finance, which one would u choose if you've got these 2 offers and if your ultimate goal is a graduate IBD offer from a BB bank?

    PS: HSBC Global Banking & Market isn't a BB bank?

    I'm really confused, any thoughts would be helpful.
    I'd say HSBC Finance is more relevant to you (in terms of getting into FO). You'd learn more relevant transferable skills. Also, Finance is usually regarded middle office, whereas ops is back office.

    How long do you have to choose?
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    (Original post by artistecmk)
    I'd say HSBC Finance is more relevant to you (in terms of getting into FO). You'd learn more relevant transferable skills. Also, Finance is usually regarded middle office, whereas ops is back office.

    How long do you have to choose?
    Thanks. What kind of transferable skills relevant to IBD can I get from Finance?

    I've got 2 weeks to decide.
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    In Finance division, you'd provide financial advice and analysis to the support functions of the bank / other businesses. Also you'll likely experience preparing financial reports, providing advice on transactions etc. IMO, what you would do in finance would be much more relevant to IB work (eg. M&A) than what you'd get out of an internship in ops.
    After all, u said your sole aim is to get into FO, so if I were you, I'd go with this....just my opinion!
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    (Original post by artistecmk)
    In Finance division, you'd provide financial advice and analysis to the support functions of the bank / other businesses. Also you'll likely experience preparing financial reports, providing advice on transactions etc. IMO, what you would do in finance would be much more relevant to IB work (eg. M&A) than what you'd get out of an internship in ops.
    After all, u said your sole aim is to get into FO, so if I were you, I'd go with this....just my opinion!
    Thank you very much.
    I guess I would be more suitable in Finance cuz I enjoy accounting....:p:
 
 
 
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