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    Are the two you are referring to the 24th Feb and the 3rd March or other dates on top of these?
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    (Original post by x_dwin_ffeimys_x)
    I'm gonnaquoteyou again :p: hehe

    Rachy can explain better probs about the behaviour of spaniels, but they are crazy dogs with hunting bred into them, it's what they love doing! same as hounds when it comes to fox hunting, and when the fox hunting ban came into force thousand of hounds were put down, because they are not house pets, and would be way to much work for their owners.
    Could say the same about dolmations, they were bred back in the days to look nice running along the sides of a horse and carrige, thats why they are so thik and clumbsy :rolleyes:

    My dad is in a small scale shoot, they rear a few phesant themselves but not intenisive at all, and then they go shooting every sat for a few months, all the birds that are shot do get eaten. do you know the role of the dogs in shooting? like you have some on the line while beating (scaring the phesants),a nd others are the retrives who collect the birds.
    I went ona shoot a few weeks ago for the first time I have never been with my dad, and I didn't get the enjoyment out of it as some ppl do...people could easily tell me, well you rear lambs and calves who then go on for human meat, why don't you like shooting? but I'm not agains it if the phesants are eaten, I just didnt enjoy being part of the killing!! (this coming froma proper farmer girl not a townie)

    you also have the larger scale shooting which i don't like, coz most of the birds whoa re killed are burried, yes it's fun for the dogs and the people, but hell it cost like £3000!!
    I have been part of shooting clay pigeon, which involved shooting clay discs...I don't have the gutts to kill a bird!
    Fair enough if the birds are being eaten, but I read that in many cases, hundreds of birds are reared, are then shot for sport, and just get dumped/buried.

    There is still something I am not quite getting. I don't think i'm expressing myself properly. There was a post further down that is kind of answering the question I am thinking...

    Its like a cycle People have said that a working dog has been bred to be the way it is, so to hunt or for shooting. But is shooting really essential?, but then they claim the sport is a way to work the dog.

    I don't think that makes sense. I'll have a think about it, and try again. :p:
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    (Original post by PowerLewis)
    But this raises the (very interesting) point that we have bred them to this stage, and brings into question whether or not that's acceptable.
    If we breed a dog selectively until it has all the ideal characteristics, it is then almost wrong to say that they have to work. They don't have to work in the field of hunting and killing for sport, but they are simply because it's one of the easiest ways to keep them occupied.
    Certainly, it's cruel to buy a working dog and not stimulate him; this doesn't defend then docking tail and using the dog to work.

    Reading Watkinson's "On The Destiny Of Species" is actually really interesting. His views on how we have more or less utterly disfigured the canine (amongst others) species are a bit of a shock to read.

    Take an extreme example:
    For the sake of paedomorphia, Bulldogs have reached the point where they are risking their life by going outside and exposing themselves to hot weather, or simply having sex. One of the most fundamental mammalian acts now puts a species in danger simply because we have force bred them. So it's at the point where more often than not, surgical insemination under full general anaesthesia is required.
    Further(/worse) still, 'Bulldogs require a C-section for delivery of puppies 90% of the time'.

    So, effectively, you personally are now prolonging the "need" for docked tails and the notion that these dogs should be worked.
    I'd imagine you had your ***** covered by a dog with all those wonderful characteristics desired in a working dog; when you have these puppies, as you said, you'll have the tails docked. Then they'll be bought by people who will most likely want to work them.
    The cycle continues, and it's a vicious one that can take extreme turns as demonstrated by the Bulldog above.

    You cannot justify the working a dog simply of the grounds of "it was bred to work"; had you bought a dog that you decided to work as the easiest form of stimulation, that would be understandable.
    But by having puppies, you're continuing the trend which makes your statement far less meaningful.
    :yep: This is what I was trying to say.
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    (Original post by x_dwin_ffeimys_x)
    heard of 80 :O woah, thats quite big you know for a non dairy farm!
    On our farm we have limoX/AngusX cattle and an Angus and Charlois Bull, we sell our calves as store calves at around 10month, we havn't the land to fatten them up/ the space in sheds during winter for us to sell them straight on to Abbatoir, so I'd call our heard 'suckler cows' really, but on the questioanire said beef. Becaus at the end, the calves do go on for meat!

    He might send some old cows to the Abbatoir? So would just be a couple every now and then. Or he might have decided to keep a few calvres to fatten up himself....

    I love talking about farming, so ask me whatever you want!! :p:
    if the cows looked like the pic under, they would be store cattle gettign fatten up for beef
    In fact no, I don't even think it was around 80. What am I saying? :confused:

    Yeah, I wrote it as Beef anyway. Can't think of what else it would be. Definately wasn't dairy :p:

    Thanks. I don't know much on farming. I wish I had the opportunity to do more experience, but it was hard to even get the amount I got in the end.

    Could you give me a run through on how a large beef farm works? (if you love talking about farming so much )
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    (Original post by ViolinGirl)
    :yep: This is what I was trying to say.

    so basically you think they should stop shooting then noone will need spaniels so spaniels wont be bred so the breed dies out????
    RIGHHHHHHHHHT!

    im not quite getting the so-called "vicious" cycle?? whys it vicious? there are no reeal inherited problems with working cockers, nothing like there is with other breeds, their pedigrees are fantastic and they are a fairly "new" breed in the scale of dog breeding.... they originate from a cross between the ESS and English cocker. Yes i have crossed my dog with a working spaniel, they will be KC registered and yes they will be pedigree, yes they will be worked, wheres the vicious bit of the cycle???????
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    I have a feeling it is unlikely that cockers would die out if shooting stopped - I mean who uses old english sheepdogs as herders? Hardly anybody, but the breed is quite stable. A what about West highland whites? Originally they were used in the control of foxes, badgers and otter - this breed of dog has been in the top ten most popular pets for many years.

    17% more cocker spaniels are kept as pets (not working) since 2005 and is continuing to rise.
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    PS Helper
    Liverpool Interview!!

    10th March! (I'm a graduate applicant)
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    (Original post by Rachhyyyy)
    there are no reeal inherited problems with working cockers, nothing like there is with other breeds, their pedigrees are fantastic and they are a fairly "new" breed in the scale of dog breeding.... they originate from a cross between the ESS and English cocker.
    Well, that you won't recognise that there are inherited diseases for ESC and ESS is part of the problem.

    Collectively both English Springer Spaniels and Cocker Spaniels are believed to be predisposed to a large number of diseases; hip dysplasia (relatively common in the ESS), glaucoma, entropion and ectropion are just a few of the disorders that both are known to be predisposed to.
    The diseases suffered separately are depressingly numerous.

    But this is now the case with a lot of dogs. Because of selective breeding, a Royal Veterinary College review determined that "50 of the most popular dog breeds account for a staggering 322 different inherited diseases".

    Edit: but, although related and highly relevant, we are now straying off topic, and I apologise for that!

    And congratulations Caragh!
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    (Original post by dbodle)
    Are the two you are referring to the 24th Feb and the 3rd March or other dates on top of these?
    Is this Bristol dates?
    I'm not sure what the actual dates left are - someone was told that there were going to be a certain number of interview days and we've essentially counted them down to figure there ought to be two left that haven't been given out yet, presumably at least one of which is reserved for on-holders.
    Sorry, not that helpful :o:
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    to anyone with liv offers/had interviews: did you have the appropriate references? they are very picky about the exact ones they want! I don't have a small animal, and only have one vet ref.
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    Pedigree breeding will always lead to problems, it will just take a while for "new breeds" problems to become more apparent.
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    Oh and I agree; personally I think that the health of pedigree dog breeds is ridiculously poor and I am ashamed to belong to a country that claims to be animal loving and speils on about mans best freind, yet posseses and in many cases supports the kennel club, which in turn supports the acts of blatent cruelty I am sure you are all aware of.
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    (Original post by Rachhyyyy)
    so basically you think they should stop shooting then noone will need spaniels so spaniels wont be bred so the breed dies out????
    RIGHHHHHHHHHT!

    im not quite getting the so-called "vicious" cycle?? whys it vicious? there are no reeal inherited problems with working cockers, nothing like there is with other breeds, their pedigrees are fantastic and they are a fairly "new" breed in the scale of dog breeding.... they originate from a cross between the ESS and English cocker. Yes i have crossed my dog with a working spaniel, they will be KC registered and yes they will be pedigree, yes they will be worked, wheres the vicious bit of the cycle???????
    doesnt this mean that they are still likely to develope inherited diseases unless they stop breeding pedigree dogs, as sooner or later the breed will reach the age that other breeds are at now, where they have inherited disease:confused:
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    I agree pedigree dogs do not have the best genetic disposition, but this is due to the owners in my opinion. If you are to breed a pedigree dog then you should know the responsibility you are taking on, and should test for the diseases. Or do the research needed into the stud dogs background and that of your own dog, and breed sensibly.

    Plus the kennel club have changed their rules and regs. about dog breeding and breed phenotypes recently, in the best interests of the animals.
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    LIVERPOOL INTERVIEW




    **** YEA
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    That's a very subjective thing to say. The best interest of the animals is to breed happy healthy dogs, which means not forcing increasingly deformed dogs to mate with dogs that are becoming more and more related as the gene pool condenses and they become increasingly inbred.
    The obsession with breed aesthetics is not objective. It's utterly unnecessary for us, and unhealthy for the dog.

    Edit: Congratulations Sam
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    (Original post by danni_f1)
    I agree pedigree dogs do not have the best genetic disposition, but this is due to the owners in my opinion. If you are to breed a pedigree dog then you should know the responsibility you are taking on, and should test for the diseases. Or do the research needed into the stud dogs background and that of your own dog, and breed sensibly.

    Plus the kennel club have changed their rules and regs. about dog breeding and breed phenotypes recently, in the best interests of the animals.
    Definitely; if the kennel club had made the effort to lay down regulations and ensure the compliance of breeders, the problem would be much less serious.

    As for the changing of rules and regulations, that's fine, but I still have my doubts as to their effect. I'll believe it when I see it.
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    (Original post by PowerLewis)
    That's a very subjective thing to say. The best interest of the animals is to breed happy healthy dogs, which means not forcing increasingly deformed dogs to mate with dogs that are becoming more and more related as the gene pool condenses and they become increasingly inbred.
    The obsession with breed aesthetics is not objective. It's utterly unnecessary for us, and unhealthy for the dog.
    Brilliant, this is it. Exactly.
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    Thanks, and because im too pleased to get my thoughts together ill say this.
    Pedigree breeding = Bad
    Hitler = Bad
    Liverpool interview = Good.
    Sliced Bread = Good
    nuf said.
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    (Original post by ViolinGirl)
    In fact no, I don't even think it was around 80. What am I saying? :confused:

    Yeah, I wrote it as Beef anyway. Can't think of what else it would be. definitely wasn't dairy :p:

    Thanks. I don't know much on farming. I wish I had the opportunity to do more experience, but it was hard to even get the amount I got in the end.

    Could you give me a run through on how a large beef farm works? (if you love talking about farming so much )
    First you have farms like the one I live on, where you have good cattle and breed from them, the eldest of our cows were born in '98, so they last a lot more years than a dairy cow. Every other year we will breed for replacement cows, to save us from buying in cows, especially now with TB, and also because self bred cows do better on our land with more immunity and stuff.
    So the calves we get which are not replacement, are sold on as store calves....we sell them on privately coz we are organic. Store calves are usually around 10-13months old?? I'd guess anyway, and what it means is they are not ready to be slaughterd, they have not reached the top weight that they can achieve.
    They then go on to another beef farm, where the'll be kept for up to 2 year, and here they will get fatten up. Some farms only do this, buy in store cattle, fatten them up and then sell them on to the abbatoirs before buying in their next lot.
    As for the old cows which we have to rid of, they go off to get burned....I'd have to ask my dad again, but it's because of BSE I think. I'm also not certain what happens to the younger cattle that we seell, say the ones on their 4th calf...but is no longer any use, cause they would not have been affected by BSE..hmm I'll phone home and get back to you, unless somebody on here knows!
    Sorry my voccab is not very good...:rolleyes:
 
 
 
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