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    hahahhaaaaa i dont think people understand that cocker spaniels and working cocker spaniels are different breeds. and thanks for neg rep guys oh no more sarcasm :p: hahahaaaaa
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    People should read the Bateson report, it really helps you reassess your opinions on pedigree dogs.

    Pedigree as a term is not bad, in fact in a number of breeds, the pedigree helps keep the breed healthy. It is just unfortunate that the pedigree has again in a number of breeds moved away from the "health" factor and more into these conformist aesthetics.

    What needs to happen is a move back towards breeding healthy pedigrees, but the kennel club still don't seem to want to change breed standards! Thats the infuriating thing! In dog shows years ago, crufts included, all the german shepherds you saw had normally aligned hips, now, in shows you will never see a german shepherd without sloping hips to some degree.

    I suggest that the kennel club changes breed standards, so that we can "breed" out the problems associated with these breeds. However I don't think you can condemn all pedigrees as universally "bad"
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    ok im gona stop with this debate cuz im blatently just gona be argued to the ground and i dont actually care cuz im gona have puppies and im gona make a S**t load of money for my uni fund :p:
    and of course, il always no that im right and your all wrong, i dont exactly agree with breeding dogs with inherited diseases, your all going off topic and making me out to be some dog hater who wants to crete crippled spaniels and cut of their tails for fun, which is hardly where this discussion started.
    and whoever negged me for sarcasm is never gona be my friend, i am offically the most sarcastic person there is, and anyone else with a very sarcastic humour is my friend (harrisboy :p:)
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    (Original post by Rachhyyyy)
    hahahhaaaaa i dont think people understand that cocker spaniels and working cocker spaniels are different breeds. and thanks for neg rep guys oh no more sarcasm :p: hahahaaaaa
    I think you'll find under the official kennel club guide lines they are not different breeds. They are different types. Sorry about that.
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    Thats nice sentiment
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    Sarcasm FTW :p:

    Though it can be hard to tell on the internet/anything written, so I can almost see why people sometimes take it the wrong way...
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    (Original post by Erulisse)
    I think you'll find under the official kennel club guide lines they are not different breeds. They are different types. Sorry about that.
    I think the issue is that should they be considered different types? No they should not. because the breed and pedigree should revolve around the functioning of the dog, not pointless aesthetics.
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    Oh and just to point out Rachyy I have absolutely nothing against you, I'm sure you're very nice, I bet your dogs beautiful and I would never neg rep you or anybody for having an opinion. It wasn't me. And I wasn't really arguing specifically against you Plus I believe in leaving a name with a rep.

    edit: oh and I am not saying you were suggesting it was me in particular, but I dont want you to have a poor view of me
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    (Original post by ClaireW2708)
    Sarcasm FTW :p:

    Though it can be hard to tell on the internet/anything written, so I can almost see why people sometimes take it the wrong way...
    Yeah sure! :p:
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    Last day at my kennel work exp tomorrow no more 6 o'clock starts wahooooo
    I will miss the dogs there though there is a great dane there who is amazing. However i found out a horrible truth.....at kennels they have big bins where the put all the dog **** and guess what it smells like at the end of the day......given up.......beer it really smells so strongly of it is so strange........sadly i will never be able to drink a pint the same way again what sacrifices we make to become vets.
    Screw all this dull pedigree and hunting conversation above is there actually a scientific reason behind this or am i just mad?
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    (Original post by Northern)
    Last day at my kennel work exp tomorrow no more 6 o'clock starts wahooooo
    I will miss the dogs there though there is a great dane there who is amazing. However i found out a horrible truth.....at kennels they have big bins where the put all the dog **** and guess what it smells like at the end of the day......given up.......beer it really smells so strongly of it is so strange........sadly i will never be able to drink a pint the same way again what sacrifices we make to become vets.
    Screw all this dull pedigree and hunting conversation above is there actually a scientific reason behind this or am i just mad?
    errr.... its called a discussion! :p:
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    (Original post by Talon19921992)
    I think the issue is that should they be considered different types? No they should not. because the breed and pedigree should revolve around the functioning of the dog, not pointless aesthetics.
    I might be missing something, but isn't the breed defined by certain aesthetic qualities which generally stem from breeding which allowed the dog to be better suited to its function? I agree with you that if certain characteristics are pointless then they probably shouldnt be bred for, ESPECIALLY if they are detrimental to the health of the dog, if that is what you are saying.
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    (Original post by Rachhyyyy)
    so basically you think they should stop shooting then noone will need spaniels so spaniels wont be bred so the breed dies out????
    RIGHHHHHHHHHT!

    im not quite getting the so-called "vicious" cycle?? whys it vicious? there are no reeal inherited problems with working cockers, nothing like there is with other breeds, their pedigrees are fantastic and they are a fairly "new" breed in the scale of dog breeding.... they originate from a cross between the ESS and English cocker. Yes i have crossed my dog with a working spaniel, they will be KC registered and yes they will be pedigree, yes they will be worked, wheres the vicious bit of the cycle???????
    I highly doubt the breed would die out even if shooting was stopped. And no, its not what I was trying to say.
    I was rather kinda asking the question: What is the need to breed them as working dogs? They were originally bred for the purpose of hunting birds, but these days fewer people actually use them for that purpose.

    They are different breeds? Ok, I give up. I don't even know what this discussion is about anymore :P And I hope you haven't gotten angry with me here...
    I was just asking questions in the hope to find out more about working dogs, so I could sort out my views on docking for myself.
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    (Original post by Rachhyyyy)
    ok im gona stop with this debate cuz im blatently just gona be argued to the ground and i dont actually care cuz im gona have puppies and im gona make a S**t load of money for my uni fund :p:
    and of course, il always no that im right and your all wrong, i dont exactly agree with breeding dogs with inherited diseases, your all going off topic and making me out to be some dog hater who wants to crete crippled spaniels and cut of their tails for fun, which is hardly where this discussion started.
    and whoever negged me for sarcasm is never gona be my friend, i am offically the most sarcastic person there is, and anyone else with a very sarcastic humour is my friend (harrisboy :p:)
    well said!!! :yep:
    next they'll be telling me that our sheep dogs will inherit health problems due to us breeding from only the best dogs out there, but our breeding line goes way back to NZ, :rolleyes:
    How many of you on here are veggeterians, against fox hunting, against animal testing, against shooting, against horse racing, againt intensive farming, against docking, against de-horning, against breding non-mongrals, against ridding natural enviroments, against bull fighting, against falcony thing talon was on about ?? coz seriously, most farmers would detest having a vet with some of the views given on here...so I guess ur SA ppl :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Erulisse)
    I might be missing something, but isn't the breed defined by certain aesthetic qualities which generally stem from breeding which allowed the dog to be better suited to its function? I agree with you that if certain characteristics are pointless then they probably shouldnt be bred for, ESPECIALLY if they are detrimental to the health of the dog, if that is what you are saying.
    We created the breed for a purpose, the breed standard should relate only to that purpose. Thats what I believe anyway... However, even with say hunting dogs, if one of those characteristics that we have bred in to make it suit its purpose better is detrimental to its health then it should be bred out.

    I really don't know if that makes any sense at all...
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    (Original post by x_dwin_ffeimys_x)
    well said!!! :yep:
    next they'll be telling me that our sheep dogs will inherit health problems due to us breeding from only the best dogs out there, but our breeding line goes way back to NZ, :rolleyes:
    How many of you on here are veggeterians, against fox hunting, against animal testing, against shooting, against horse racing, againt intensive farming, against docking, against de-horning, against breding non-mongrals, against ridding natural enviroments, against bull fighting, against falcony thing talon was on about ?? coz seriously, most farmers would detest having a vet with some of the views given on here...so I guess ur SA ppl :rolleyes:
    Just got to say: I love this statement!

    Edit: sorry for double posting rubbish
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    (Original post by Talon19921992)
    errr.... its called a discussion! :p:
    God you lot are so serious :p:
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    (Original post by Talon19921992)
    Just got to say: I love this statement!

    Edit: sorry for double posting rubbish
    sorry I couldn't remeber what it was called :o:
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    (Original post by Northern)
    God you lot are so serious :p:
    Are we really!!! Geez I hadn't realized! I hope I don't get neg rep for sarcasm! :p: opps

    Edit: I do apologise, I have been in a very odd mood since passing my driving test! Bit of a high really! I will try to pipe down...
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    (Original post by Talon19921992)
    We created the breed for a purpose, the breed standard should relate only to that purpose. Thats what I believe anyway... However, even with say hunting dogs, if one of those characteristics that we have bred in to make it suit its purpose better is detrimental to its health then it should be bred out.

    I really don't know if that makes any sense at all...
    Definitely: if we create a problem which causes suffering we should make every effort to get rid of it, even if it causes the loss of a characteristic which gives better performance. Health and welfare should always come before performance.

 
 
 

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