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    Aha, oral exams are funny. I've realised today what one of the most soul-destroying things to hear in an exam situation is. It is simply.
    "Ummm....no. Just no."
    Hehe I wish you guys could hear some of the answers some of us came up with in the orals, bloomin' hilarious.
    And I'm hopeless at debating, so I'll let you all get on with it yourselves. :P
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    (Original post by Erulisse)
    Definitely: if we create a problem which causes suffering we should make every effort to get rid of it, even if it causes the loss of a characteristic which gives better performance. Health and welfare should always come before performance.

    Yay!!! Agreement!
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    (Original post by x_dwin_ffeimys_x)
    well said!!! :yep:
    next they'll be telling me that our sheep dogs will inherit health problems due to us breeding from only the best dogs out there, but our breeding line goes way back to NZ, :rolleyes:
    How many of you on here are veggeterians, against fox hunting, against animal testing, against shooting, against horse racing, againt intensive farming, against docking, against de-horning, against breding non-mongrals, against ridding natural enviroments, against bull fighting, against falcony thing talon was on about ?? coz seriously, most farmers would detest having a vet with some of the views given on here...so I guess ur SA ppl :rolleyes:
    Perhaps researcher actually :p: But I guess SA is nice too

    Oh, and cheer earlier for your farming post!

    I think i'm too small to go into LA :P hehehe...
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    (Original post by sampanache)
    Thanks, and because im too pleased to get my thoughts together ill say this.
    Pedigree breeding = Bad
    Hitler = Bad
    Liverpool interview = Good.
    Sliced Bread = Good
    nuf said.
    :yep: definitely.
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    (Original post by Talon19921992)
    Yay!!! Agreement!
    (Ditto).
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    (Original post by Talon19921992)
    Yay!!! Agreement!
    YAY

    Oh, and my falconry comments earlier can be ignored. I need to find out more about it first :p: My dad is into falconing, used to do it when he was younger too. I can't say a single word against it. :o:
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    (Original post by Northern)
    Last day at my kennel work exp tomorrow no more 6 o'clock starts wahooooo
    I will miss the dogs there though there is a great dane there who is amazing. However i found out a horrible truth.....at kennels they have big bins where the put all the dog **** and guess what it smells like at the end of the day......given up.......beer it really smells so strongly of it is so strange........sadly i will never be able to drink a pint the same way again what sacrifices we make to become vets.
    ahh well, beer is horrible anyway :p:
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    Everyone seems very happy with the agreement comment....

    *cough*

    ....anyone have any rep left after all negging rachyyyy....

    *cough*

    :p: :p: :p:


    Edit: Thank you!!!
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    Hey has anyone on here been to an interview at Edinburgh?....
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    (Original post by Rachhyyyy)
    ok im gona stop with this debate cuz im blatently just gona be argued to the ground and i dont actually care cuz im gona have puppies and im gona make a S**t load of money for my uni fund :p:
    and of course, il always no that im right and your all wrong, i dont exactly agree with breeding dogs with inherited diseases, your all going off topic and making me out to be some dog hater who wants to crete crippled spaniels and cut of their tails for fun, which is hardly where this discussion started.
    and whoever negged me for sarcasm is never gona be my friend, i am offically the most sarcastic person there is, and anyone else with a very sarcastic humour is my friend (harrisboy :p:)
    Well we're not going round in circles, people are still adding new comments; it's a little early to just bail out of the debate (not an argument, as you suggested), unless it's just that you dislike being disagreed with or challenged. I'd really like your input, because your views seem very different to mine, and you've raised just a few more queries to me

    So, you may well be right, but I'd love if you could just answer me a few questions.
    Do you or do you not believe that selective breeding, irrespective of the animal or the breed, can have detrimental effects?
    Similarly, if your ***** does have puppies, do you consider at all whether or not you're introducing dogs that will be predisposed to a variety of disorders? Or, as you brought it up, is it just about the money?
    I can only find the English and American Cocker Spaniel; of the ECS, there are two types, certainly, and these are 'working' and 'show', but they are of the same breed. What's the origin of your breed "Working Cocker Spaniel"?

    (Original post by The Kennel Club)
    As with a number of gundog breeds there is a difference between those used for work and those used for show. The show Cocker is a sturdier, heavier version of his work counterpart and is but one of a variety of spaniels divided because of their size and usefulness. Cockers were recognised as a separate breed from Field and Springer Spaniels soon after the formation of the Kennel Club in 1873.
    I look forward to hearing your answer to these, and then I'm quite happy to let the matter go with my curiosity sated

    Edit: spelling :rolleyes:
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    Seriously guys, negging Rachy was a bit harsh! This is a public forum where we can all give our opinions and debate them, no need to make it more personal than that!

    Such an awesome day at the vets today, I would tell you all but I'm about to go and eat dinner, yum!

    Also, I cannot decide whether I am leaning towards SA or LA. I absolutely loved all my farm work experience, love farming in general actually, but then again, SA gets some awesome ops and client contact Ah well no need to decide yet! I know I don't want to do equine though.
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    (Original post by Kurzyk)
    How do you get from the Nottingham train station to the Sutton Bonington Campus? D:
    You have to options.
    The first, better option is to get the train to East Midlands Parkway station which is only a few minutes away from SB, and then get a taxi from there to SB. If you're already booked a ticket to nottingham, I'm sure it won't cost much more to get a train from Nottingham main station to East Midlands Parkway.

    Otherwise, the harder option is to get the train to Nottingham station. Then get a bus or taxi to main campus and then from main campus get the free hopper bus from main campus to SB. You would want to catch the bus from the bus stops on the road from the east entrance to the main Portland building. (http://www.nottingham.ac.uk/about/do...gtonhopper.pdf)

    (Original post by sami4132)
    Finally, on the complimentary medicine issue, I don't really agree with homeopathic medicines, because I think they can cause prolonged suffering for an animal because they are often less strong and take more time to work than modern medicines.
    You mentioned homoeopathy takes more time to work. In fact it doesn't work at all, homeopathic pills are diluted to such a degree that not a single molecule of the active substance is left. They believe the more diluted it is the more potent it is and that the active substance leaves an "imprint" on the water molecules.
    There has been a lot of decent research done into homoeopathy (see cochrane collaboration) and it is clearly no more effective than placebo.
    Appallingly the RCVS actually recognise homoeopathic vets, the british veterinary voodoo society is a parody and campaign group against homoeopathy which is fairly interesting to look into. http://vetpath.co.uk/voodoo/
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    (Original post by PowerLewis)

    Reading Watkinson's "On The Destiny Of Species" is actually really interesting. His views on how we have more or less utterly disfigured the canine (amongst others) species are a bit of a shock to read.
    I would be careful with Watkinson's views, he is widely regarded as an idiot. I haven't read OTDOS, but I've heard bad bad things about it. :p:

    (Original post by Rachhyyyy)
    ok im gona stop with this debate cuz im blatently just gona be argued to the ground and i dont actually care cuz im gona have puppies and im gona make a S**t load of money for my uni fund :p:
    I have strong ethical objections to breeding puppies for money, not on an individual level but on a national level. Far too many people in this country do it and so as a country far too many dogs are produced. There are countless dogs in rescue homes and yet people still breed dogs at home for financial or sentimental reasons.

    I don't think pedigree breeding of a working breed like the working cocker is a bad thing in terms of health. In this case you're selecting for healthy characteristics similar to what would be selected for through natural selection and so the production of physiologically induced conditions is much much lower.

    (Original post by x_dwin_ffeimys_x)
    How many of you on here are veggeterians, against fox hunting, against animal testing, against shooting, against horse racing, againt intensive farming, against docking, against de-horning, against breding non-mongrals, against ridding natural enviroments, against bull fighting, against falcony thing talon was on about ?? coz seriously, most farmers would detest having a vet with some of the views given on here...so I guess ur SA ppl :rolleyes:
    Personally I'm tending towards a career in LA medicine and have grown up in a rural community. I'm against some of the things you have mentioned and not others.
    I think sacrificing animal welfare in order to please clients or just to be though of in a certain way contradicts the first guiding principle in the RCVS's guide to professional conduct.
    As a vet you're the one person who is there on behalf of the animal's welfare, that's what the whole job is based upon. I think any good LA vet will disagree with a typical farmer's view, however that doesn't mean you can't be liked as a vet. How you approach these matters is paramount and so with good communication and eduction you can improve animal welfare while keeping the farmer on side (by means of co-inciding the improvement with business/moral improvement.)

    EDIT: Sorry for the double post.
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    Aha I know a lot of people talk disparagingly about him, but I've found his book quite an interesting read. Read it and see, whether or not you agree with his ideas.
    I dislike the semi-arrogant style in which he writes (yes, yes, I know everyone, I also write in what seems an arrogant style.) and some of his "findings" aren't of great importance, or how he generalises a lot and takes almost everything to the worst possible extreme, but the bare bones of the book are definitely worth a read.
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    It was a couple of pages ago now...but someone was talking about the various complementary therapies. I think part of the problem with discussing that area is that people are inclined to lump them all together (homeopathy, herbal remedies, acupuncture, chiropracter etc etc). Anything that isn't totally 'scientific' - but they are totally different things. Just like you couldn't write all operations off as being useless because one didn't work for one person once, you can't write all types of alternative medicine off because one thing hasn't worked. Personally I am very sceptical about homeopathy - its principle is based on heavily diluted substances as mentioned above ^. Like I say, personally I'm not at all convinced by that. But I don't think you can use that to write off other herbal medications - which are sold as a 'normal' strength of whatever herbs etc. At the end of the day, medicine is based on herbal preparations - go back in history to politices, pastes, lotions and potions brewed from herbs. Some were a load of rubbish, but some worked. So why wouldnt some herbal medicines work now?

    I'm not saying it is all good stuff...but it annoys me that there is this tendency to lump everything together and write it all off as rubbish that doesn't work, without ever having tried it yourself, without looking at individual areas of alternative medicine and without researching it.
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    I've been skimming over the last few pages, interesting debate.
    Like some others i was wondering the origin of the working cocker.
    I have two 'show' cockers and my manager at the kennels has a 'working' cocker puppy. I can see the subtle difference in the appearance of the breed, but i have to say the two working cockers i know (the puppy and a four year old dog that comes into the kennels every weekday for day creche) are not really crazy like you describe your dog to be. Actually the four year old is a complete softy, hes entire but hes totally uninterested in being an actually dog haha.
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    You mentioned homoeopathy takes more time to work. In fact it doesn't work at all, homeopathic pills are diluted to such a degree that not a single molecule of the active substance is left. They believe the more diluted it is the more potent it is and that the active substance leaves an "imprint" on the water molecules.
    There has been a lot of decent research done into homoeopathy (see cochrane collaboration) and it is clearly no more effective than placebo.
    Appallingly the RCVS actually recognise homoeopathic vets, the british veterinary voodoo society is a parody and campaign group against homoeopathy which is fairly interesting to look into. http://vetpath.co.uk/voodoo/
    As you say, it's no more effective than placebo, and although most consider that placebo doesn't work on animals (me included), as some other people have said, what does often work is a change in attitude from the owner, as most animals respond to people's emotions or 'energy' if you like. And placebo can work quite well, so I don't want to write it off as complete bs. Sometimes, i think, when nothing else works, a more positive attitude from an owner (I'm talking mainly SA here) could help to aleviate stress in an animal and could help them heal. However, I would never consider it as first line treatment!! In Switzerland, there's a farming group called proNatura, and they're all for homeopathy and alternative, herbal medicines, which I think is extreme and will eventually be detrimental to the farming industry. i do however support their efforts to improve management of holdings to prevent certain issues, rather than over use antibiotics, say, to cure when an animal already has an issue that may have been prevented with better management / hygiene.
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    (Original post by x_dwin_ffeimys_x)
    well said!!! :yep:
    next they'll be telling me that our sheep dogs will inherit health problems due to us breeding from only the best dogs out there, but our breeding line goes way back to NZ, :rolleyes:
    How many of you on here are veggeterians, against fox hunting, against animal testing, against shooting, against horse racing, againt intensive farming, against docking, against de-horning, against breding non-mongrals, against ridding natural enviroments, against bull fighting, against falcony thing talon was on about ?? coz seriously, most farmers would detest having a vet with some of the views given on here...so I guess ur SA ppl :rolleyes:
    I wouldn't say I'm an SA person, but neither would I say I'm planning on LA..I genuinely have no idea at the moment.
    Of your list, I'm against cosmetic testing on animals, but not medical testing, against intensive farming, fairly definitely against bull-fighting and somewhat undecided now on docking/hunting/shooting, as I don't think I have the knowledge to come to a definite opinion.

    Guys, its really interesting seeing everyone's different views on things. Shame some people are petty enough to neg-rep if they disagree, but never mind. I don't feel like I'm really contributing to it, because I'm not knowledgeable enough to have much to say about it, but I love reading it all and using it to form my own views.
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    Yes, there definitely are subtle differences between working cockers and show cockers, mostly in character from what I've seen. They are definitely the same breed though, just different types or strains. It's like (for horsey peeps ) the egyptian arab compared to the other types or the types: the Keheilan, Seglawi, Abeyan, Hadban, Hamdani. All the same breed but different types.
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    (Original post by Beckybob)
    (Original post by sampanache)
    Thanks, and because im too pleased to get my thoughts together ill say this.
    Pedigree breeding = Bad
    Hitler = Bad
    Liverpool interview = Good.
    Sliced Bread = Good
    nuf said.
    definitely.
    i wouldnt have been born if t wasnt for hitler
 
 
 

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