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Conservatives would rise uni fees to £7k? watch

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    (Original post by AnonymousPenguin)
    salaries and costs are.
    Hence, that number is becoming worth less and is easier to pay off.
    'Costs' can rise faster than inflation...

    If its increasing its not easier to pay it off, because you're not paying it off.

    You'd be right if this were a mortgage with fixed repayments but interest set to inflation but its not.
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    (Original post by Quady)
    'Costs' can rise faster than inflation...
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Inflation

    Well the increase of costs is kind of the definition of inflation. So while some may, on average they can't really.

    If its increasing its not easier to pay it off, because you're not paying it off.
    Well you're not paying it off numerically in a set currency, but you are paying it of in terms of actual abstract value of that number. If you had 3 million in 1980 and you have 3 million now, you're much poorer now. It's the same if it's a loan, it's much smaller now.

    You'd be right if this were a mortgage with fixed repayments but interest set to inflation but its not.
    You'll have to elaborate how the size of these repayments not being fixed changes the situation.
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    Following your logic, I don't see why I should pay for anyone elses healthcare, if I'm not using why should I pay for it?
    Exactly why I approve of a public/private hybrifd (appoligies very drunkn atm0$
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    (Original post by DanD9)
    Any particular reason(s) why?


    I think its more to do with the less people can go the more valuable the degree ends up being. Sort of like how a top uni will require AAA where as a crap one might offer CCC. Obviously less will be able to go to the top eventually making their degrees more "special" then the other university.
    Well universities are so underfunded right now that unless funding increases this will lead to serious consequences in the future. Look at LSE -the intake of international students is so high (around 50%) partly because internationals pay higher fees so the university is less underfunded as a result. I know it's rather extreme but I think that unless government funding increases on higher education in the near future (very unlikely given public spending cuts due to occur) or students' top-up fees increase, some universities will ultimately resort to going private. Places like Oxbridge, Imperial and LSE would go private whilst knowing that their academic reputation will still attract students of the highest calibre. Look at the USA - the Ivies are all private yet they attract the most intelligent students in the country, who are prepared to go into significant debt to receive a degree from somewhere like Harvard or Yale.
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    (Original post by crazylemon)
    Exactly why I approve of a public/private hybrifd (appoligies very drunkn atm0$
    We already have a public/private hybrid healthcare system.

    It's also worth noting that the NHS is very good value, although it is not the best system in the world, it is important to take a look at the money spent on healthcare. We Brits spend far less on healthcare than the US and almost all of western Europe, yet our healthcare system is far superior to that of the US and far from the worst in Europe. Our healthcare system works fantastically well given the amount of money spent on it. I'll stop there, can feel this going a bit off-topic :p:
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    We already have a public/private hybrid healthcare system.

    It's also worth noting that the NHS is very good value, although it is not the best system in the world, it is important to take a look at the money spent on healthcare. We Brits spend far less on healthcare than the US and almost all of western Europe, yet our healthcare system is far superior to that of the US and far from the worst in Europe. Our healthcare system works fantastically well given the amount of money spent on it.
    True, does not mean it could be better. Singapore has an interesting take on it, but again I would need to do some more research.

    The NHS is also wasteful though, and the what is being don't to it atm will make it more expensive (yes I realise this is privatisation but it is in the sense of state funded, privately provided healthcare which is stupid)
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    (Original post by aeonflux)
    We already have a public/private hybrid healthcare system.

    It's also worth noting that the NHS is very good value, although it is not the best system in the world, it is important to take a look at the money spent on healthcare. We Brits spend far less on healthcare than the US and almost all of western Europe, yet our healthcare system is far superior to that of the US and far from the worst in Europe. Our healthcare system works fantastically well given the amount of money spent on it. I'll stop there, can feel this going a bit off-topic :p:
    You've bought the propaganda from UK Ltd about our 'marvellous' health care system I see! The UK health system doesn't come near the French one, considered the best in the world for several years now by the WHO.
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    (Original post by hypocriticaljap)
    You've bought the propaganda from UK Ltd about our 'marvellous' health care system I see! The UK health system doesn't come near the French one, considered the best in the world for several years now by the WHO.
    Try reading the post. I never said the UK system provided as a good a service as the French one, however, we spend far less on healthcare than the French.



    Considering we spend less than the French, the fact that our system doesn't provide as high levels of care is hardly surprising. You don't buy a Ford Mondeo and complain it's not as good as a Ferrari Enzo.
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    Our health system is crap with some dreadful outcome stats for cancers and most of our spending goes on ludicrous contracts to overpaid GPs. Over twice what a GP in France earns.
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    Here's what the right wing Policy Exchange will have made sure every Tory MP is reading this week.
    Scary or what?
    http://www.policyexchange.org.uk/ima...Please_WEB.pdf
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    Apologies for not reading the thread since it is so long, but where is the evidence the Conservatives would raise uni fees to £7k.

    My experience suggests to the contrary since I went to a talk by David Willetts, the Shadow Minister for Universities and Skills on Monday and he explicitly state the Conservatives would not be raising fees to a value such as £7K since he argued this was not the way to address funding issues and the problem was not that simple, but rather a general investigation into the structure of funding should occur.

    That said, personally I do not believe a fees cap should exist.

    (Original post by hypocriticaljap)
    Our health system is crap with some dreadful outcome stats for cancers and most of our spending goes on ludicrous contracts to overpaid GPs. Over twice what a GP in France earns.
    I would agree with you that the health system is in need of a total overhaul. The main problem I see in addressing this though is the fact at the moment it appears to be political suicide to question the power of the NHS. This is a significant problem and sadly I cannot see anything changing within the foreseeable future.

    On the NHS topic, although relatively lowbrow, G. Monbiot has an interesting chapter in his 2000 book entitled 'Captive State: The Corporate Takeover of Britain' in which he claims it is subtracting to private firms which is causing the huge inefficiencies within the NHS and choices are solely being made based on profitability for private firms to encourage investment. Whilst his argument is flawed and I couldn't disagree with it further, it certainly is an interesting analysis of the problem.
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    Don't worry guys, they will start by increasing the fees slowely, they'd be mad to spring £7K on you just like that, plus with Nick Clegg having some power, it wont be so bad. I think it will be like £5K, then £5.5K the next year, then £6K after.... and so on untill they reach £7K. Wont happen for a while anyway.
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    (Original post by AverageJoe92)
    Don't worry guys, they will start by increasing the fees slowely, they'd be mad to spring £7K on you just like that, plus with Nick Clegg having some power, it wont be so bad. I think it will be like £5K, then £5.5K the next year, then £6K after.... and so on untill they reach £7K. Wont happen for a while anyway.
    Can you predict the future? I am afraid this is something you cannot speculate on. They can and will do anything they want.

    Both Labour and the Conservative party signed up to the Browne review...
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    It needs to happen, university has become a right of way now, and in turn this has cheapened the value of a degree.
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    (Original post by miss_world)
    I haven't read the entire thread, so I'm sorry if this has been posted before, but do you have any links to back up your claims? I am very shocked by this. If it's true then it's absolutely disgraceful. God the baby boomers are really doing their very best to fudge things up our generation aren't they?
    why is it disgraceful? people don't realise how cheap tuition fees are in this country. i rise might also get rid of this stupid attitude to get as many people as possible to go to uni.
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    (Original post by MovingOn)
    It needs to happen, university has become a right of way now, and in turn this has cheapened the value of a degree.
    Decent degrees haven't been devalued.

    If you feel yours has then you're part of the problem.
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    (Original post by AverageJoe92)
    Don't worry guys, they will start by increasing the fees slowely, they'd be mad to spring £7K on you just like that, plus with Nick Clegg having some power, it wont be so bad. I think it will be like £5K, then £5.5K the next year, then £6K after.... and so on untill they reach £7K. Wont happen for a while anyway.
    Clegg won't vote against whatever the Tories put before Parliament - right or wrong?
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    (Original post by Quady)
    Clegg won't vote against whatever the Tories put before Parliament - right or wrong?
    He has more power than you think, and I was speaking to an admissions person the other day and she said they will be too late to change the fees for 2011 entry, we're safe. :yep:
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    (Original post by AverageJoe92)
    He has more power than you think, and I was speaking to an admissions person the other day and she said they will be too late to change the fees for 2011 entry, we're safe. :yep:
    Well he has the power to take the Government down, but he'd be taking himself out of power permenantly if he did that.

    He does have power and its been exercised, he can't go back on it now and get anything more.
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    (Original post by Transatlantic Flight)
    Apologies for not reading the thread since it is so long, but where is the evidence the Conservatives would raise uni fees to £7k.

    My experience suggests to the contrary since I went to a talk by David Willetts, the Shadow Minister for Universities and Skills on Monday and he explicitly state the Conservatives would not be raising fees to a value such as £7K since he argued this was not the way to address funding issues and the problem was not that simple, but rather a general investigation into the structure of funding should occur.

    That said, personally I do not believe a fees cap should exist.



    I would agree with you that the health system is in need of a total overhaul. The main problem I see in addressing this though is the fact at the moment it appears to be political suicide to question the power of the NHS. This is a significant problem and sadly I cannot see anything changing within the foreseeable future.

    On the NHS topic, although relatively lowbrow, G. Monbiot has an interesting chapter in his 2000 book entitled 'Captive State: The Corporate Takeover of Britain' in which he claims it is subtracting to private firms which is causing the huge inefficiencies within the NHS and choices are solely being made based on profitability for private firms to encourage investment. Whilst his argument is flawed and I couldn't disagree with it further, it certainly is an interesting analysis of the problem.

    This guy knows what he is talking about. Evidence to support their argument and the £7K talk is all just rumours. Ultimate Like. :gthumb:
 
 
 
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