what are the disadvantages of multiculturalism? Watch

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j4mes_bond25
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#61
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#61
(Original post by kizdesai)
thats quite a rash statement, almost as if you're implying that the death of those astronaughts was the fault of the 36%? They got the job because they were as good as or better than anyone else. You also ignore the enourmous achievement of nasa in the last century e.g travelling to the moon (please spare me the conspiracy theory websites if you are planning that)
Indeed but that's OK Mr. Desai :cool: May be, his pea-sized intellect wasn't capable enough to get this rather straight forward logic & SINCE Indians were good at job, they GOT the job & blaming them solely for NASA accident is like blaming the British empire for the current state of Africa :rolleyes:

I rather let this BNP dog continue to bark. Afterall, all's fair in love, war & nonchalant comment by a dimwit like him :rolleyes:
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j4mes_bond25
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#62
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(Original post by JonD)
While James Bond's cut-n-pastes from desi pride websites are interesting, most of it is a red herring in this case:

- Silicon Valley is not in the UK, it is in the US

- The motivations for immigration by these successful ethnic groups tend to be education and business opportunities, not because they were coerced by the budding host state.

One fallacious claim is that the Pentium was “created” as if by one man. The Pentium was merely the next, natural step up from the 486; there was no massive leap of invention or genius involved. This sort of work is usually done by a large team, which looks like it just happened to have a project leader with an Indian name. Making such a big deal out of it discredits the article, and it makes me question the other claims. It would have been better to simply mention that disproportionate 30% or so of Silicon Valley firms are owned, or were started by Asians.

Also, that £2.5 billion contribution figure doesn't do wonders for your argument. It means the average immigrant contributes only half to the state than a Briton would.
Well, I never said it WAS NOT cut-n-paste :rolleyes: & if you stress your eyes little more then you would've realised that I did mention this stuff came from an American website & that UK is NOT a home of Silicon Valley :rolleyes: However, I felt necessary to use those facts merely to mention the BENEFITS of having memebers of ethnic group within a particular society

Furthermore, WHATEVER the motivation for these ethnic group entering in a new country, the fact remains same that they are welcomed due to the skills they've to offer & hence doctors from Asian countries are welcomed because it's THEM who got the skills & not someone in Somalia :rolleyes:

This pentium project was indeed a team work & their leader happened to be an Indian :rolleyes: Around 40% of the same Indian works in Microsoft & hence contributing rather well towards Bill Gate's over £26 billion worth of furtune :rolleyes: If these 40% weren't working in Microsoft, I wonder, if someone like yourself would've made Bill Gate reach at the stage he's reached right now :rolleyes: I highly doubted :rolleyes:

Hope you know the importance of £2.5 billion within an economy, from the population that represents around ONLY 3-4% of UK population :rolleyes:
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j4mes_bond25
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#63
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#63
(Original post by JonD)
Some possible disadvantages of multiculturalism I can think of (may arouse debate ):

- Demographics. Because multiculturalism lets different ethnic groups maintain their traditional birthrates, often higher than that of the host nation. I doubt the British (or others) would surrender their demographic power without a fight, so outright ethnic conflict is very likely in the long-term.
- Allegiance problems. In times of war, it is necessary to intern those who have sympathies with your opponent. Would we really have the resources to lock up millions of people, scattered all over the place?
- Ethnic relations. It's ridiculous when the state has to pander to certain ethnic leaders in order to meet their approval. Britain is looking more and more like the British Raj each day.
- Communalist politics. Such an ugly thing, but expect groups like the BNP and RESPECT to continue to become more powerful as the profits from such adventures increase.
- Mastery. As the multicultural ethnic groups gain more power, they'll use it. Shiriah law, anyone?
- States have always represented one dominant ethnic group. Multiculturalism really is an experiment. Possibly a fatal one.
- The loss of civil liberties, which we can see daily. The above all give the state an excuse to expand.
Here, Here !!! I don't disagree here.
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j4mes_bond25
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#64
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#64
(Original post by canuck)
I think the main disadvantage of multiculturalism is the decline of national unity. It has been suggested by many histories that one main reason for the fall of the Roman Empire was because Rome became too multicultural. National unity brings stability. Stability is needed for prosperity.
I entirely agree
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JonD
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#65
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JB:

- A different ethnic group in an entirely different labour market and economy
- Motivation is important. That's probably why the Indian groups are all model minorities, whereas Islamic and African groups (which we have most of) are not.
- The US does not practice multiculturalism (Heard of the melting pot?)
- It is important that you cut and pasted them, since you don't really know anything about the article.
- For example, do you know if those 40% of Indians employed by Microsoft are actually in America? It employs thousands of factory programmers on the sub-continent because they are cheap. Factory programmers really aren't any more skilled than builders.
- I wont dirty Indian American achievement, they do very well for themselves. But claiming our loose immigration will automatically succeed in the same way is about as looney and irrelevant as damning African summer fruit pickers because Hussain gassed Kurds, Iran killed dissidents and the Turks massacred Armenians.

Hope you know the importance of £2.5 billion within an economy, from the population that represents around ONLY 3-4% of UK population :rolleyes:
We're talking about a total government budget of around £600bn. The average contribution of a lower tax-bracket 4% of the population would be something like £12bn. £2.5bn is a pitiful amount, barely worth noticing, and is probably a negative contribution once education, paperwork and services are taken into account.

Anyway, if immigration is a necessity, I'd rather we follow historic US lines, rather than continue state-sanctioned balkanization.
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j4mes_bond25
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#66
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#66
(Original post by JonD)
JB:

- It is important that you cut and pasted them, since you don't really know anything about the article.
- For example, do you know if those 40% of Indians employed by Microsoft are actually in America? It employs thousands of factory programmers on the sub-continent because they are cheap. Factory programmers really aren't any more skilled than builders.
- I wont dirty Indian American achievement, they do very well for themselves. But claiming our loose immigration will automatically succeed in the same way is about as looney and irrelevant as damning African summer fruit pickers because Hussain gassed Kurds, Iran killed dissidents and the Turks massacred Armenians.

We're talking about a total government budget of around £600bn. The average contribution of a lower tax-bracket 4% of the population would be something like £12bn. £2.5bn is a pitiful amount, barely worth noticing, and is probably a negative contribution once education, paperwork and services are taken into account.
It's SURELY important to have it copied & paste (wonders of Technology) :rolleyes: but then again, it's a rather crass comment suggesting I'm ignorant about what's been mentioned, as your pea-sized intellect have already proved you, quite as bright as an eclipse, I fear, since I was mentioning the BENEFITS of having ethnic minorities, while you preferred whining about needlessly :rolleyes:

Let me enlighten you with the fact, which you've kept yourself well aloof from, that majorities of these 40% of employees within Microsoft has had their brain developed in India & entered in USA through the skills they had to offer, by work permit & are NOT American Born Indian :rolleyes: Furthremore, most of Microsoft's factory job of packing, etc. is based in USA & Mexico & NOT outsourced to India :rolleyes:

Hordes of Britons, French & Germans move to Middle East, to earn BETTER salary as compared to what they could earn by being in UK & in the same way, Indians have done exactly the same by moving to USA, for better salary. Similary, British doctors & nurses prefer moving to USA & Australia, for better working condition & decent salary, as opposed to what they get offered within the country & Indians have done the same. It happens all around the world & I can't see anything wrong with it, so MAY BE, you should stop pointing your fingers to JUST ONE PARTICULAR ethnic group, for doing so :rolleyes:

Immigration is still a problem, but then again, which country has kept itself aloof from problem ??? Hope you are not living in a cloud-cuckoo-land ???

Wonder when was the last time, you had visit of your local Optician ??? Cos the site, I provided you earlier & you failed to notice it stating VERY CLEARLY that just within the city of London (JUST LONDON) has ethnic minorities contribution towards economy is £31.2 billon & EVEN if you take away the benefits, healthcare, pensions, etc., which works out £28.8 billion, it STILL leaves with a overall benefit of £2.5 billion. Now, you do the Maths (depending on you GCSE grade) as this £2.5 billion is just for 1999/2000 year with JUST from the city of London. Imagine the overall contribution from the ethnic minorities contribution, all around the country & times it by the number of years, they've been doing so & will CONTINUE to do so :rolleyes:

Indeed, immigration has it's minus points (for which, government is THERE to think about, rather than you needlessly stressing your brain cells, over the entire issue) but then again, it's NOT always a bowl of cherries (if that's what you think, it should be)

Nuff said !!! :cool:
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JonD
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#67
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(Original post by j4mes_bond25)
[...]your pea-sized intellect,[drivel] :rolleyes: [drivel] :rolleyes: [drivel] quite as bright as an eclipse, [drivel] :rolleyes: whining about needlessly[drivel] :rolleyes: well aloof from
[drivel] :rolleyes: [drivel] :rolleyes: [drivel]
Nuff said!!
I agree about the last part, "'Nuff said". I've pointed out why some of your points are fallacious, yet you continue to expand on them. Save your jaundiced insults and intermissionary ":rolleyes:" sentence breakers for someone who gives a toss.
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L i b
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#68
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To assume that nations solidly exist, and to lend political weight to culture, restricts my freedom to adopt whatever culture I wish and do as I will within the law.

That is why I support multiculturalism and reject nationalism.
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j4mes_bond25
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#69
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#69
(Original post by JonD)
I agree about the last part, "'Nuff said". I've pointed out why some of your points are fallacious, yet you continue to expand on them. Save your jaundiced insults and intermissionary ":rolleyes:" sentence breakers for someone who gives a toss.
Sure, you agree about the last part, PERHAPS I should see that agreement as your acceptance of having no valid point to continue your moaning

Well, insulting others isn't quite in my blood, however, in your case, I was forced to make an exception, since I had no choice other than replying you back in the SAME tone, as you had

By all means, the democracy allows you to continue your rather naive argument (as we often see from ignorants around), cos at the end of the day
http://www.nelto.augen-krebs.de/hilfe/whocares.jpg
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JonD
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(Original post by j4mes_bond25)
Sure, you agree about the last part, PERHAPS I should see that agreement as your acceptance of having no valid point to continue your moaning

Well, insulting others isn't quite in my blood, however, in your case, I was forced to make an exception, since I had no choice other than replying you back in the SAME tone, as you had

By all means, the democracy allows you to continue your rather naive argument (as we often see from ignorants around), cos at the end of the day
http://www.nelto.augen-krebs.de/hilfe/whocares.jpg
Wow. Progressed onto Beano humour, with added expletives, now, have we? :rolleyes:

Your argument is that Multiculturalism is good because:
- Microsoft has Indians
- Indians did some other worthy stuff
- Indians invented the number 0

I made several refutations, including:
- The US practices melting pot immigration, not multiculturalism.
- Even if it did, the UK doesn't get the same benefits as the US.
- Middle-class migration is different from working-class migration, socially and economically.
- Business high-ups are internationalist, they are without borders. You could pick out a few Scotish managers in India and believably argue the Scotch run the whole country, too, even though it is decieving because it paints way too narrow a picture.
- Other differences between Indian and far eastern ethnic groups and Muslim and African.
- No one man created the Pentium, or provided a leap of genious. As a result, your article looks unreliable.

Your response was a long, practically unintelligable rant:
- Claimed I was stupid (on several occasions, with different cliché metaphors)
- Claimed I was "aloof"
- Suggested I was ignorant
- Suggested I was naive
- Some tripe about opticians, twisted a few facts around
- Various other vulgarities and personal attacks

I don't need to say anything else, you look fatuous plenty enough without my help.
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cottonmouth
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[/QOUTE]We believe in the rule of law. British law, not the codes or laws of any other ideology, religion or belief system.
Youre allegiance is to Britain and its values. Free speech, democracy, tolerance and individual freedoms.
We put an end to the obsessive self-loathing that denies our children the basic education in British history, heritage, acheivements.
We defend our civil liberties, the right to criticise religion, ideology and the beliefs of others.
We remain a sovereign nation. How can we talk about the British nation, if it is all but being eroded away? We are powerless to take effective measures against terrorism because of the disastrous trappings of the EU Human Rights Charter.

Thats what came off the top of my head...[/QUOTE]


vienna....

ya know what? i actually agree with a lot of the points you make on what you consider to be british culture. i do however, disagree with the need for a sovereign nation.and the human rights charter is one of the best things to ever happen to the world.
my question is, why do you think those who do not agree with this culture should get out?as long as they do not cause violence, or trouble, and as long as they accept that things will stay the way they are, then what is the problem?obviously, the ones who hate it so muh they want to blow us up must be dealt with, but the ones who hate it, but live with it, leave em alone!theyre the ones torturing themselves by living in a society they despise.that is punishment enough, in my view.

positivity is all we need! indeed, the benefits of multiculturalism far outweigh the negatives.....
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Vienna
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#72
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(Original post by cottonmouth)
We believe in the rule of law. British law, not the codes or laws of any other ideology, religion or belief system.
Youre allegiance is to Britain and its values. Free speech, democracy, tolerance and individual freedoms.
We put an end to the obsessive self-loathing that denies our children the basic education in British history, heritage, acheivements.
We defend our civil liberties, the right to criticise religion, ideology and the beliefs of others.
We remain a sovereign nation. How can we talk about the British nation, if it is all but being eroded away? We are powerless to take effective measures against terrorism because of the disastrous trappings of the EU Human Rights Charter.

Thats what came off the top of my head...

vienna....

ya know what? i actually agree with a lot of the points you make on what you consider to be british culture. i do however, disagree with the need for a sovereign nation.and the human rights charter is one of the best things to ever happen to the world.
my question is, why do you think those who do not agree with this culture should get out?as long as they do not cause violence, or trouble, and as long as they accept that things will stay the way they are, then what is the problem?obviously, the ones who hate it so muh they want to blow us up must be dealt with, but the ones who hate it, but live with it, leave em alone!theyre the ones torturing themselves by living in a society they despise.that is punishment enough, in my view.

positivity is all we need! indeed, the benefits of multiculturalism far outweigh the negatives.....

Which points do you agree with and which are compatible with a lack of sovereignity and no nation state?
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Arminius
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#73
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As far as i'm concerned "multiculturalism" is in no way desirable. I think its fair enough that the people from other cultures that were born here be aloud to stay but they must integrate with mainstream culture, or leave.

We can't have a society where some people can't speak english. We need to be cohesive and share the same values, anyone who doesn't share our values shouldn't be aloud to stay but isolate themselves. (which seems to be multiculturalists idea). They should instead never be aloud to stay here.

We don't want new cultures, the one we have is great. If we keep going the way we're headed then i may aswell move to somewhere other than britian, as much as i'd hate to leave. I couldn't stand to live here with a totall mismash of beliefs and values and all the problems that would arrise betwee various groups.
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Howard
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#74
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Calling your local authority/telephone/gas/water company and not being able to talk to anybody that speaks any ****in English? That's one obvious disadvantage.
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Mata
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I wasn't born here. I don't see myself as British. I would not fight for Britain in a war (I'd be on the sidelines screaming 'make love not war').

However, I am quite happy to blend into British culture. Why should I restrict myself to one culture, as if I have blinkers on? What is wrong with me eating ugali and chapatti one night, and fish and chips the next? If a British person is my neighbour, and comes round for dinner, and eat my 'foreign' food, then that person is no less British than he/she was before they came.

You choose your culture. That's why some people decide to flee Britain for sunnier climes. Your culture can't be stolen away by someone in a turban brandishing a scimitar. If you are British and consider yourself British then you're British! And if your children someday decide that they'd quite like to learn gujurati then that doesn't mean they're going to suddenly forget English.

Every culture has shortcomings and failings. Perhaps (as the old arguments go) some Muslims don't treat women as well as they could. By coming to England and being exposed to English culture, they can change. And the divorce rate in England is going up all the time- can't the English learn something from another culture which has a lower divorce rate?

Anyway... just my rant. Multiculturalism can't destroy British culture. Perhaps it can change it, but I don't think that there's anything bad about a little positive change.
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Carl
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(Original post by Zakatu)
As far as i'm concerned "multiculturalism" is in no way desirable. I think its fair enough that the people from other cultures that were born here be aloud to stay but they must integrate with mainstream culture, or leave.

We can't have a society where some people can't speak english. We need to be cohesive and share the same values, anyone who doesn't share our values shouldn't be aloud to stay but isolate themselves. (which seems to be multiculturalists idea). They should instead never be aloud to stay here.

We don't want new cultures, the one we have is great. If we keep going the way we're headed then i may aswell move to somewhere other than britian, as much as i'd hate to leave. I couldn't stand to live here with a totall mismash of beliefs and values and all the problems that would arrise betwee various groups.
What are your beliefs and values?
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LC01
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Multi-culturism is such a failure that the government have taken away our freedom of speech in order to stop us speking the truth about it. Its failed, anyone that lives in burnley will tell you.
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Carl
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(Original post by LC01)
Multi-culturism is such a failure that the government have taken away our freedom of speech in order to stop us speking the truth about it. Its failed, anyone that lives in burnley will tell you.
How does the government take away your freedom of speech?
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LC01
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#79
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(Original post by Carl)
How does the government take away your freedom of speech?
Incitment to racial hatred
NEW:Incitment to religious hatred

Both are due to this failed multi-culture Britian.
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IZZY!
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#80
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(Original post by andyukguy)
Interesting points. Over all I think multiculturism does not work. It causes more problems than it helps - instead of spending time trying to educate the unemployed, the government sees it as easier to just ship in some qualified personel from abroad which is a vicious cycle. If this option wasn't on the cards we'd have less unemployed, I suspect less crime (Almost a ¼ of Britain’s 72,400 jail population come from ethnic minorities – though they are less than 10% of the total population. [S Worker, 4 Jan 03]). There are a lot more arguements against than I've ever seen for but still no one does anything (excuse BNP, WS's from this).

Andrew
if it wasnt for multicultiralism, this country wouldnt not be 4th largest economy in the world for sure. Dont just think of refugees. Think of rich foreigners who come here and buy expensive houses. They are probably rich international businessmen or just corrupted politicians who stole so much money that they are scared of going back. Just think of the huge investments they bring into this country. Even legal immigrants have to contribute high taxes despite their low earnings. There is also a great number of Asian doctors. This is good for healthcare - otherwise the waiting list would be just ridiculously long. As someone stated before, the non white own 19% of businesses here. This country would have much higher unemployment rate if it wasnt for the investments foreigners bring. Foreigners also bring loads of money to educational secter of this country. A EU student just pays 1100 tops, whereas foreigner pays 10 times more. Then he doesnt have any loan. This is how your highly respected education is provided.
Same goes for US.If this wasnt for them, USA would not be the superpower. Such multicultiralism brings new people and some of them are smart. This brings new ideas, which lead to money.
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