London Shooting - the real facts emerge Watch

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melbourne
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#41
Report 13 years ago
#41
(Original post by Pepaim)
Quite a selection then!
I was just wondering where you got your info from that illegal immigrants rape, carry knives/guns etc, because im sure those are isolated incidents and many crimes are carried out by Brits.
Yes, if im at my grandparents i read the mail, at work i read the express, the mirror when im working with my uncle, the times when i can be bothered to buy it (and do the sudoku's lol) and the financial times when im doing some business research.

I will change my statement to "a high percentage of asylum seekers, mainly those from eastern europe, account for a higher number of crimes considering their small percentage of the total population.

I have plenty of first hand knowledge of such actions. The other day our whole road was cordoned off and armed police were called in. This has never happened before, and low and behold it turns out that asylum seekers were brandishing a shotgun.

The other day a man on his own was murdered for no apparent reason and it was done by three men of "easter european descent".

I go down my local high street and you see them following 14 yr old girls pestering them, whilst being told to go away.

I also saw a fight occur when some locals tried telling these A.S's to stop harassing these women with children, then the asylum seekers bottled a few guys and ran for it.

Im not just talking out of my bum- but those "things" are animals and should never be allowed into this country!

How do we know whether the ones we let in are the victims or soldiers who killed thousands in serbia/bosnia/kosovo???
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bikerx23
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#42
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#42
(Original post by Pepaim)
I've already said the police would not have shouted "police, stop". If he had been a bomber he may have set off his bomb which the police would not have wanted.
You said they might not have, but if they are pursuing someone the police are required to shout a verbal warning, so they must of.
His family have already admitted he could not speak english.
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an Siarach
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#43
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#43
(Original post by thebucketwoman)
But if it was found that the police acted wrongly, it would be someone high up in the police that should take the blame, not the government?
If it is found that the officers in question were gung ho (which is highly unlikely) then they will take the blame. Otherwise there can be no real condemnation of any of the parties involved as the blame lies purely with the man for attempting to flee as this is what killed him, not dodgy intelligence.
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abc101
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#44
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#44
They had absolutely no reason to shoot Mr Menezes.

He was wearing a light denim jacket, not a heavy winter coat.

He didn't jump the barrier, he used a ticket.

The policemen were plain clothes so he would have just thought they were a group of men, possibly lads who were going to beat him up or mug him.

The police shouted NO WARNING. No witness has said they heard any kind of police warning and it is apparently police policy in these instances NOT TO IDENTIFY THEMSELVES.

This is just sick. Any one of us could walk out of our front door and be executed by the police. They don't even have to have a reason to shoot an innocent man, they just do it.

The officer who killed Mr Menezes has even been given a two-week holiday, to 'get over the stress.' He should be arrested, placed in custody and tried for murder.

And Ian Blair had the cheek to say, on the day of Mr Menezes' brutal murder, he was 'very pleased' with what his force were doing.
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abc101
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#45
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#45
Even if they had shouted a warning, which they didn't - would being deaf now be a sufficient reason to be shot dead?
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an Siarach
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#46
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#46
(Original post by Rasta)
They had absolutely no reason to shoot Mr Menezes.

He was wearing a light denim jacket, not a heavy winter coat.
A fact which means nothing as regards the possibility that he could have been carrying explosives.
He didn't jump the barrier, he used a ticket.
Apparently so. Ive yet to hear this confirmed.
The policemen were plain clothes so he would have just thought they were a group of men, possibly lads who were going to beat him up or mug him.
In the middle of a rush hour train station? Dont be daft.
The police shouted NO WARNING. No witness has said they heard any kind of police warning and it is apparently police policy in these instances NOT TO IDENTIFY THEMSELVES.
Apparently.
This is just sick. Any one of us could walk out of our front door and be executed by the police. They don't even have to have a reason to shoot an innocent man, they just do it.
Nonsense.
The officer who killed Mr Menezes has even been given a two-week holiday, to 'get over the stress.' He should be arrested, placed in custody and tried for murder.
Nonsense.
And Ian Blair had the cheek to say, on the day of Mr Menezes' brutal murder, he was 'very pleased' with what his force were doing.
On the day. That would be before they were ever aware of that fact that he was not a terrorist? Before they were aware of the fact that they had shot an innocent man? Ive yet to year for sure that the police took any illegitimate action. When it is confirmed that the first the poor fellow knew of the police attention was when they shot him in the back of the head il accept they have a lot to answer for.
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jamlan
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#47
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#47
(Original post by melbourne)
Yes, if im at my grandparents i read the mail, at work i read the express, the mirror when im working with my uncle, the times when i can be bothered to buy it (and do the sudoku's lol) and the financial times when im doing some business research.

I will change my statement to "a high percentage of asylum seekers, mainly those from eastern europe, account for a higher number of crimes considering their small percentage of the total population.

I have plenty of first hand knowledge of such actions. The other day our whole road was cordoned off and armed police were called in. This has never happened before, and low and behold it turns out that asylum seekers were brandishing a shotgun.

The other day a man on his own was murdered for no apparent reason and it was done by three men of "easter european descent".

I go down my local high street and you see them following 14 yr old girls pestering them, whilst being told to go away.

I also saw a fight occur when some locals tried telling these A.S's to stop harassing these women with children, then the asylum seekers bottled a few guys and ran for it.

Im not just talking out of my bum- but those "things" are animals and should never be allowed into this country!

How do we know whether the ones we let in are the victims or soldiers who killed thousands in serbia/bosnia/kosovo???
And that's why this guy deserved to be shot simply for being an illegal immigrant from Brazil with no evidence of being a criminal other than being an illegal.
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Weejimmie
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#48
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#48
(Original post by an Siarach)
the police could be certain he was not carrying explosives.
Is that a reason to shoot people?
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#49
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#49
(Original post by Rasta)
They had absolutely no reason to shoot Mr Menezes.

He was wearing a light denim jacket, not a heavy winter coat.

He didn't jump the barrier, he used a ticket.

The policemen were plain clothes so he would have just thought they were a group of men, possibly lads who were going to beat him up or mug him.

The police shouted NO WARNING. No witness has said they heard any kind of police warning and it is apparently police policy in these instances NOT TO IDENTIFY THEMSELVES.

This is just sick. Any one of us could walk out of our front door and be executed by the police. They don't even have to have a reason to shoot an innocent man, they just do it.

The officer who killed Mr Menezes has even been given a two-week holiday, to 'get over the stress.' He should be arrested, placed in custody and tried for murder.

And Ian Blair had the cheek to say, on the day of Mr Menezes' brutal murder, he was 'very pleased' with what his force were doing.
Its not really fair to blame the police, if there were no terrorists then the man would still be alive today.
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jamlan
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#50
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#50
(Original post by Rasta)
Even if they had shouted a warning, which they didn't - would being deaf now be a sufficient reason to be shot dead?
How do you know they didn't? There were witnesses who heard them shout "Police, stop!" twice. I know witnesses aren't entirely reliable but i haven't heard any witnesses say that they're sure the police didn't warn him
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an Siarach
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#51
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#51
(Original post by Weejimmie)
Is that a reason to shoot people?
When they refuse to cooperate and attempt to flee a week after a series of major bombings and a day after another series of bombings were avoided with those responsible still on the loose yes. Had he not run from the police (and ive yet to hear that he definately did not) then he would be alive and free.
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Jamie
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#52
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#52
Now as sorry as i am about this brazilians death, i find it disturbing the anti-british backwash in brazil (ha like police shooting civvies is new there...).
They are even calling him a martyr.

If you whilst driving your car swerve to miss a deer, crash and die, you are not a martyr no matter how good you were.
Likewise if you run away from armed policemen towards a crowded public transport area during a time frequented by suicide bomb attempts, you are not a martyr.

you are simply a poor chap who made a fatal error.
an Siarach
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#53
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#53
(Original post by Jamie)
Now as sorry as i am about this brazilians death, i find it disturbing the anti-british backwash in brazil (ha like police shooting civvies is new there...).
They are even calling him a martyr.

If you whilst driving your car swerve to miss a deer, crash and die, you are not a martyr no matter how good you were.
Likewise if you run away from armed policemen towards a crowded public transport area during a time frequented by suicide bomb attempts, you are not a martyr.

you are simply a poor chap who made a fatal error.
Spot on. The poor guys death is a tragic shame but that does nothing to change the fact that it came about as a result of his own action.
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melbourne
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#54
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#54
(Original post by Rasta)
They had absolutely no reason to shoot Mr Menezes.
The followed him from the flat of one of the suspected bombers. He didnt stop when they shouted STOP.


(Original post by Rasta)
He was wearing a light denim jacket, not a heavy winter coat.
So?

(Original post by Rasta)
He didn't jump the barrier, he used a ticket.
They are quite easy to get through quickly.

(Original post by Rasta)
The policemen were plain clothes so he would have just thought they were a group of men, possibly lads who were going to beat him up or mug him.
Oh yeah because everyday groups of about 10 white men run through tube stations dressed in casual clothes, not bothered about cameras and witnesses carrying guns! LOLOLOLOLOL

(Original post by Rasta)
The police shouted NO WARNING. No witness has said they heard any kind of police warning and it is apparently police policy in these instances NOT TO IDENTIFY THEMSELVES.
How do you know there was no warning? Was you there?

What would you be saying if that guy had detonated a bomb, and the police had failed to shoot him. Would you tell the families of the dead that the police didnt stop it because he used his train ticket? Or that he was only wearing a denim jacket? Or that he didnt stop when they shouted because he MAY have been deaf..........

(Original post by Rasta)
This is just sick. Any one of us could walk out of our front door and be executed by the police. They don't even have to have a reason to shoot an innocent man, they just do it.
No not quite! lol

(Original post by Rasta)
The officer who killed Mr Menezes has even been given a two-week holiday, to 'get over the stress.' He should be arrested, placed in custody and tried for murder.
If it wasnt for idiots like you he wouldnt have to escape.

Are you saying had he been a terrorist with a bomb that blew up, and the police hadnt intervened that you wouldnt blame the police. You moan when they do act and i bet you would have moaned had he been a bomber and they didnt act!
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bikerx23
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#55
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#55
You say there were no warnings shouted? there is several people on the train who confirmed that the police officers shouted in an attempt to clear the train, and also did so to when pursuing him.

police forces in the UK supply their firearms units with rules of engagement based on guidelines from the Association of Chief Police Officers (Acpo).

These state that they:


Must identify themselves and declare intent to fire (unless this risks serious harm).

Should aim for the biggest target (the torso) to incapacitate and for greater accuracy.

Should reassess the situation after each shot.
"He ran, they followed him. They say they gave him a warning, they then shot him.
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Weejimmie
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#56
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#56
(Original post by melbourne)
The followed him from the flat of one of the suspected bombers. He didnt stop when they shouted STOP.
They followed from a block of flats. they followed for three miles, including a bus journey, when they had ample opportunity to observe him and probably ample opportunity to safely disable and detain him.



So?
so it was easy to tell if he had- as was allegedly believed- a bomb around his waist.


They are quite easy to get through quickly.
That is perfectly ordinsary behaviour then.


Oh yeah because everyday groups of about 10 white men run through tube stations dressed in casual clothes, not bothered about cameras and witnesses carrying guns! LOLOLOLOLOL
How often are the people who do that policemen?


How do you know there was no warning? Was you there?
We don't. We don't know if there was a clear warning either. Various contradictory versions have been reported.
What would you be saying if that guy had detonated a bomb, and the police had failed to shoot him. Would you tell the families of the dead that the police didnt stop it because he used his train ticket? Or that he was only wearing a denim jacket? Or that he didnt stop when they shouted because he MAY have been deaf..........
As he didn't have a bomb he couldn't donate a bomb. There was no reason to think that he had a bomb except that he had left a block of flats which contained a flat the address of which had been found on one of the bombers.
No not quite! lol
There is a long history of the police shooting unarmed and innocent men.


If it wasnt for idiots like you he wouldnt have to escape.
You have no compunction about innocent people being shot dead. Other people- including people who have done it, you may be surprised to learn- do.

Are you saying had he been a terrorist with a bomb that blew up, and the police hadnt intervened that you wouldnt blame the police. You moan when they do act and i bet you would have moaned had he been a bomber and they didnt act!
As the man in question wasn't a terrorist and as it should have been obvious that he wasn't a terrorist that doesn't matter. It is reasonable to want to know what went wrong when things go wrong. You seem to think that unarmed and innocent men being shot dead is an example of things going well. Other people disagree with you.
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Weejimmie
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#57
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#57
(Original post by bikerx23)
You say there were no warnings shouted? there is several people on the train who confirmed that the police officers shouted in an attempt to clear the train, and also did so to when pursuing him.
If that is so, though, were they warnings to Menezes or warnings to other people to get clear of him?
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Pepaim
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#58
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#58
Exactly they say they gave him a warning. don't you think its odd they'd shout a warning at someone they feared was a suicide bomber? The whole point of the shoot to kill policy is to give the police an advantage when trying to stop a bomber. Thats why they go for the head shot so the bomber can not detonate their bomb, they shout and their advantage is lost.

Also, there have been many contradictory claims from witnesses, i have heard many people say they heard no warning.

Your guidelines from the police are for normal circumstances. If someone was armed with a gun and percieved to be a threat, the police would shoot at their head, not torso, they do double shots in quick succession, one at head and one at neck. They must identify themseves unless risks serious harm which in this case it would have.

My dad is up in London at the moment and says they would probably not have given a warning for the reasons I stated above.
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o-e-s-j
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#59
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#59
just a quick note. the man would be used to the corruption of the brazilian police. my cousin bribed his way out of a speeding ticket with 12 reais (about £3) its rediculous.
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Scheherazade
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#60
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#60
(Original post by melbourne)
Yes, if im at my grandparents i read the mail, at work i read the express, the mirror when im working with my uncle, the times when i can be bothered to buy it (and do the sudoku's lol) and the financial times when im doing some business research.

I will change my statement to "a high percentage of asylum seekers, mainly those from eastern europe, account for a higher number of crimes considering their small percentage of the total population.

I have plenty of first hand knowledge of such actions. The other day our whole road was cordoned off and armed police were called in. This has never happened before, and low and behold it turns out that asylum seekers were brandishing a shotgun.

The other day a man on his own was murdered for no apparent reason and it was done by three men of "easter european descent".

I go down my local high street and you see them following 14 yr old girls pestering them, whilst being told to go away.

I also saw a fight occur when some locals tried telling these A.S's to stop harassing these women with children, then the asylum seekers bottled a few guys and ran for it.

Im not just talking out of my bum- but those "things" are animals and should never be allowed into this country!

How do we know whether the ones we let in are the victims or soldiers who killed thousands in serbia/bosnia/kosovo???
You are so biased! How many English natives have murdered people? How many English natives perform violent acts? I've been harrassed by plenty of white Anglo-Saxon men, but I'm not predjudiced enough to believe this makes all white anglo-saxons 'animals'. You're entire attitude to other human beings is worrying.
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