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The future of graduate entry medicine ... watch

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    I have been thinking about graduate entry medicine for some time now and have a few concerns about the future. I am looking to reapply to medicine in about 2/3 years time. Firstly, now that the fee caps have come off, I was talking to someone at college who was saying that the universities in general may well be charging about £7,000 per year in tuition fees in 3 years time and that the medical schools could be charging something like £10,000 per year. So if i was a graduate on a 5 year course i'm looking at paying £40,000 up front in fees which is absolutely ridiculous! Is this likely to happen or do you guys think the fees for medicine will hover around £4000.

    The other concern I have is about the entry requirements in terms of degree classifications. I have heard from people now in 2010, that to stand a good chance of getting in, grads need to be predicted or obtained a first class degree even thought the requirements are 2.1 minimum. Some of my friends are convinced that by the time I get round to reapplying the requirements would have changed and that graduates will be required to have 1st class degrees.

    What are people's views (especially current grad medics/grad applicants) on these issues? Is it likely that this will be the future of grad medicine? If so, it does seem odd to me given that the whole point of grad med was to widen access to medicine as a profession. If they do this, they will be losing out on many applicants who would make great doctors. i have a horrible feeling that some of these may apply in 3/4/5 years...
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    this is very interesting. i hope graduate entry medicine doesn't end up like this, but i think eventually, yes it will. they will be charging extortionate fees because they can. hoepfully this shouldn't matter too much for those on 4 year courses but i think it will put grads off the 5 year courses. As for requiring firsts, well birmingham are already stating on their website that you need a first to be considered. the problem with this, is to get a first from an institution such as UCL, it is ****ing difficult! You really have to work yourself into an early grave just to get a 2.1 for some courses here! Imagine the kids doing physics at oxford and how hard it is for them to get 1sts consistently through their degree- it would be a little too mean to require the top standard from everyone especially when there is so much variability between institutions. personally i think they should scrap the ukcat for grad entry and get everyone to do a proper admissions test and leave the requirements at 2.1 - that would be best instead of requiring firsts and UKCATs of 700+
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    Firstly, there are med schools that accept 2:ii's: Peninsula, St George's and Nottingham. They need the GAMSAT (Graduate Australian Meidcal School Admissions Test), so if you pass their cutoff for that and you have a minimum of a 2:ii, they don't look at grades after that. Secondly, fees aren't required up front, I believe most med schools let you pay in installments through out the year. For a GEP you only pay fees for the first year, after that the Department of Health pays for years 2,3 and 4. You are also entitled to a means tested maintenence loan from your LEA as although it is a second degree it is leading to a professional career. There is also a professional graduate loan of around £10,000 you can get form most high street banks and there are numorous charities that you can apply to for burseries. The idea being that in the future, you give money back to them to fund somone else if and when you can. (Google money for med students for a list and the details). I had to look long and hard to see if I could afford it as I get no support from my parents for my last degree and this one. If I end up on the 5 yr PMS course I'm looking at over £60,000 of debt, that's half a house! :'( But hopefully, it will all be worth it..... It better be
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    OP - i believe that in the next 5years not much is going to change. a few medschool may raise their entry requierments and the overall price of med school will raise but i am sure it you get a 2:i in 3yrs time you will still be able to apply.
    but the person above is right. the nhs bursary is there so that highly talented people can enter the medical profession. if med school was too expensive people would not go and as a result the nhs would have to increase the bursary to make sure that it was able to continue trainning good doctors.

    in 20yrs time the picture may be very different but for your sake OP i think you will be fine.
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    If you have to pay £10k a year that means there will still be fee caps.
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    (Original post by ballerinabetty)
    OP - i believe that in the next 5years not much is going to change. a few medschool may raise their entry requierments and the overall price of med school will raise but i am sure it you get a 2:i in 3yrs time you will still be able to apply.
    but the person above is right. the nhs bursary is there so that highly talented people can enter the medical profession. if med school was too expensive people would not go and as a result the nhs would have to increase the bursary to make sure that it was able to continue trainning good doctors.

    in 20yrs time the picture may be very different but for your sake OP i think you will be fine.
    that's a really good point actually - people just wouldn't bother if it was too expensive. and i agree, whatever the costs are, the NHS will have to increase the bursary to attract the candidates in the first place. remember that some graduates have to do all sorts to get into medicine - give up a well paid career, remorgage the house, relocate the family etc. med schools are understanding when it comes to grads. in fact i know one woman here at UCL who used to live in bristol with her husband. she moved to london last year to start the course away from her husband (left him in their flat, he couldn't move to london with her) and gave up her £40,000 a year job offer to do medicine.
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    I can see it happening on the other hand aslong as the LEA start to provide a fee loan i dont see what the big deal is doctors earn enough to pay it back. Hell just be thankfull we arent paying American fees
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    I currently owe approx £30,000 and pay back about £380 per month (student loan and bank loan). My last statement showed i'm not even keeping up with the interest! If I owed £60,000 i dont't think i'd ever be able to pay it back.
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    (Original post by ballerinabetty)
    OP - i believe that in the next 5years not much is going to change. a few medschool may raise their entry requierments and the overall price of med school will raise but i am sure it you get a 2:i in 3yrs time you will still be able to apply.
    but the person above is right. the nhs bursary is there so that highly talented people can enter the medical profession. if med school was too expensive people would not go and as a result the nhs would have to increase the bursary to make sure that it was able to continue trainning good doctors.

    in 20yrs time the picture may be very different but for your sake OP i think you will be fine.
    See you say the NHS bursary etc. etc. But for undergrads, the NHS bursary only covers SOME of your overall costs in your 5th year (i think)

    I know people going into physio who get EVERYTHING, pretty much, paid for in one massive bursary, most of it from the NHS. This is the case with "allied healthcare profession" courses, like physio.

    If they were that keen on the 'common man' like me and many other aspiring medics, not the old boys club, those with the money, MUCH more would be ploughed into NHS bursaries for medics...
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    (Original post by TENDYRAAA!)
    See you say the NHS bursary etc. etc. But for undergrads, the NHS bursary only covers SOME of your overall costs in your 5th year (i think)
    I know people going into physio who get EVERYTHING, pretty much, paid for in one massive bursary, most of it from the NHS. This is the case with "allied healthcare profession" courses, like physio.

    If they were that keen on the 'common man' like me and many other aspiring medics, not the old boys club, those with the money, MUCH more would be ploughed into NHS bursaries for medics...
    i was talking about 4 year courses. i believe that grads (unless they are loaded) should only apply to 5yr if they have been rejected from alot of 4yr courses. otherwise yes it is going to be expensive because you are on a course that is funded for school leavers not grads.

    on a 4yr course you will get the same bursary as a physio and nursing student after 1st year.
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    Its all rumour and superstition at best though. Anecdotal evidence is no evidence at all in my book . I know somebody in the faculty at Nottingham Graduate Medschool and they have strong views that despite the competitive nature of the applications, everyone is judged soly on their GAMSAT and interview. Chosing only those with firsts simply reduces the students they can pick from, which isn't something they're interested in.

    Don't panic!
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    i think the fees will probably be about £5000. they can't charge lots because they know graduates are already in a significant amount of debt. as for requirements i'm not too sure - the A Level requirements seem to go up every 4/5 years but i think that it will remain at 2.1 for a while yet. when most GEPs were set up the requirements were 2.1 and that doesn't seem to be changing...
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    (Original post by dilipd)
    this is very interesting. i hope graduate entry medicine doesn't end up like this, but i think eventually, yes it will. they will be charging extortionate fees because they can. hoepfully this shouldn't matter too much for those on 4 year courses but i think it will put grads off the 5 year courses.
    Sounds fair to me. I think it is unfair to have grads interviewing against school students/leavers, afterall they are a lot older and world wise, not to mention most probably more confidgent, thus likely to impress at interview. At places like Durham and PMS where they do not know your background it is grossly unfair in my view.
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    (Original post by Single Malt)
    Sounds fair to me. I think it is unfair to have grads interviewing against school students/leavers, afterall they are a lot older and world wise, not to mention most probably more confidgent, thus likely to impress at interview. At places like Durham and PMS where they do not know your background it is grossly unfair in my view.
    Why? Shouldn't the people who are the best get the places, rather than be discriminated against?

    I'm not saying that graduates are necessarily the best choices, but the fact that they are graduates should if anything be a bonus over school leavers, rather than a negative. After all, they are probably more committed to medicine (being mature) and have a proven track record of academic success at undergraduate level.

    Would you go as far as to discriminate people on gap years compared to school leavers, because they would have more real world experience?
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    (Original post by Single Malt)
    Sounds fair to me. I think it is unfair to have grads interviewing against school students/leavers, afterall they are a lot older and world wise, not to mention most probably more confidgent, thus likely to impress at interview. At places like Durham and PMS where they do not know your background it is grossly unfair in my view.
    How is it unfair when we have to meet the same conditions as you guys + pay for the degree
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    (Original post by brokenangel)
    How is it unfair when we have to meet the same conditions as you guys + pay for the degree
    Most likely because he fall into the school leaver category.
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    (Original post by brokenangel)
    How is it unfair when we have to meet the same conditions as you guys + pay for the degree
    Its a little thing called 'unfair armaments', a 21/22 year old grad will have had a lot more oppurtunity for work experience, shadowing and as mentioned, is going to be alot more confident.

    (Original post by Phalanges)
    Most likely because he fall into the school leaver category.
    If I end up taking the grad route, we will have to see if I am a hypocrite.
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    [QUOTE=Single Malt]Its a little thing called 'unfair armaments', a 21/22 year old grad will have had a lot more oppurtunity for work experience, shadowing and as mentioned, is going to be alot more confident.

    Although grads may seem like they have had more time for voluntary work and work experience, fitting those in with a degree is much more difficult than finding the time to do it at A level. especially if you are doing science at a top 20 uni, you are unlikely to have much free time on your hands.
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    (Original post by Single Malt)
    Its a little thing called 'unfair armaments', a 21/22 year old grad will have had a lot more oppurtunity for work experience, shadowing and as mentioned, is going to be alot more confident.
    So the people who will have the best experiences, the most rounded personalities and above all the best applications should be discriminated against?

    Right, makes perfect sense....
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    (Original post by Single Malt)
    Its a little thing called 'unfair armaments', a 21/22 year old grad will have had a lot more oppurtunity for work experience, shadowing and as mentioned, is going to be alot more confident.

    .
    that is why med school may choose them over school leavers. this is not simply about fairness, its about picking student who will be better doctors and who will be easier to train.
    it is the conditions of applying. you apply in acceptance that you will be put up against people who could be better, older and more experianced than you. if you are not up to scratch that is not the med schools fault.
 
 
 
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