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    (Original post by ballerinabetty)
    that is why med school may choose them over school leavers. this is not simply about fairness, its about picking student who will be better doctors and who will be easier to train.
    it is the conditions of applying. you apply in acceptance that you will be put up against people who could be better, older and more experianced than you. if you are not up to scratch that is not the med schools fault.
    (Original post by Phalanges)
    So the people who will have the best experiences, the most rounded personalities and above all the best applications should be discriminated against?

    Right, makes perfect sense....
    But do you not think that these traits will be developed by the school leaver? It is like comparing a labrador puppy and its six year old trained gun dog father. the puppy will in a year or two be just as good gun dog, it simply needs time to mature, something two semi-preclinical (because even intergrated courses slowly ramp up patient contact) years would be ideal for this.
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    just about any activity wif some depth would yield that, though.
    whats stopping you from doing these activities?

    (Original post by Single Malt)
    Sounds fair to me. I think it is unfair to have grads interviewing against school students/leavers, afterall they are a lot older and world wise, not to mention most probably more confidgent, thus likely to impress at interview. At places like Durham and PMS where they do not know your background it is grossly unfair in my view.
    you are picked largely on your likeliness to complete the course - thats really what is - dont pretend its anyfing more than that. reasonable confidence can be expected from any applicant, if you cant provide that then you wont qualify to work as a dustbin man.

    and since grads will ave a larger debts to bury, they are still at a disadvantage to you school leavers anyway, becos they are less likely to complete the course on monetary grounds alone.
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    (Original post by Single Malt)
    But do you not think that these traits will be developed by the school leaver? It is like comparing a labrador puppy and its six year old trained gun dog father. the puppy will in a year or two be just as good gun dog, it simply needs time to mature, something two semi-preclinical (because even intergrated courses slowly ramp up patient contact) years would be ideal for this.
    everybody is assessed under the same criteria. they are looking for potentially good students and good doctors. everyone is assesed on the same criteria and if you are not up to scratch then you are rejected (even some people who are up to scratch are rejected because there simply isnt enough space on the course).

    also as gizmo said :yes:
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    (Original post by Gizmo!)
    and since grads will ave a larger debts to bury, they are still at a disadvantage to you school leavers anyway, becos they are less likely to complete the course on monetary grounds alone.
    My argument is about there competing for places, not ability to complete the course. I do not believe any medical school would be rude enough to ask as part of their admissions process whether a potential student could pay his or her way?
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    (Original post by Single Malt)
    My argument is about there competing for places, not ability to complete the course. I do not believe any medical school would be rude enough to ask as part of their admissions process whether a potential student could pay his or her way?
    medical school (infact all unis) have to concider financially what a group of sudents will cost. this is why they only have limited number of spaces, because they can only afford to safely train that many people at one time. if a graduate on a 5yr course gets 3 yrs into their training then has to leave because of finantial difficulties the the med school has spend 3yrs worth of money of training someone who will not contrabute to the nhs/care system.
    so.... your argument is about competing for places, but one of the considerations has to be is this student a good financial investment. so gizmo is right it is very important that med schools choose student who they feel will be able to finish the course (weather that means finantially or academically).

    i personally have been asked in a uni interview if i could cope with the financial aspect of the course. it is a waste of a space it the accept me and i cant.
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    (Original post by ballerinabetty)
    i personally have been asked in a uni interview if i could cope with the financial aspect of the course. it is a waste of a space it the accept me and i cant.
    What was the course? Because when I mentioned at all my interviews that I live on my own independantly for the last two years, not one person asked whether I could afford the fees.
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    (Original post by Single Malt)
    What was the course? Because when I mentioned at all my interviews that I live on my own independantly for the last two years, not one person asked whether I could afford the fees.
    my first degree. which because it was at a private school i could not get student finance so had to pay myself.
    you would not be asked this question at an interview because medicine is your first degree and so you are entitled to student finance. it would be a consideration for a graduate on a 5yr course.
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    (Original post by ballerinabetty)
    my first degree. which because it was at a private school i could not get student finance so had to pay myself.
    you would not be asked this question at an interview because medicine is your first degree and so you are entitled to student finance. it would be a consideration for a graduate on a 5yr course.
    TBH with a proffessional studies loan 5yrs is financiable to alot of graduates.
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    (Original post by brokenangel)
    TBH with a proffessional studies loan 5yrs is financiable to alot of graduates.
    this loan is not like student finance though. you have to have a very good credit rating to get it so to some it is not an option.

    but yes if you are sensible then both routes can be financed. however med school still need to look for financially viable students.
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    (Original post by kc91)
    I have been thinking about graduate entry medicine for some time now and have a few concerns about the future. I am looking to reapply to medicine in about 2/3 years time. Firstly, now that the fee caps have come off, I was talking to someone at college who was saying that the universities in general may well be charging about £7,000 per year in tuition fees in 3 years time and that the medical schools could be charging something like £10,000 per year. So if i was a graduate on a 5 year course i'm looking at paying £40,000 up front in fees which is absolutely ridiculous! Is this likely to happen or do you guys think the fees for medicine will hover around £4000.

    The other concern I have is about the entry requirements in terms of degree classifications. I have heard from people now in 2010, that to stand a good chance of getting in, grads need to be predicted or obtained a first class degree even thought the requirements are 2.1 minimum. Some of my friends are convinced that by the time I get round to reapplying the requirements would have changed and that graduates will be required to have 1st class degrees.

    What are people's views (especially current grad medics/grad applicants) on these issues? Is it likely that this will be the future of grad medicine? If so, it does seem odd to me given that the whole point of grad med was to widen access to medicine as a profession. If they do this, they will be losing out on many applicants who would make great doctors. i have a horrible feeling that some of these may apply in 3/4/5 years...
    It might with the tuition fees, but I wouldn't think the 1st class degrees bit would be seen that close to the future...I guess it depends on how popular that course may be and the no. of places they have e.g. Birmingham ONLY takes those with 1st class degrees

    But many unis such as St. Georges, Warwick, Swansea will not follow that path they know that the best applicants are not those with 1st class degrees...thats why they have the GAMSAT or the UKCAT there to help differentiate between them, and of course the interview...thats where they really decide if your capable

    I'm not worried about the uncapping tbh as I will be working part-time through by grad. med as a pharmacist and I know of many pharmacist who are in grad. medicine in QMUL that do just that. Hopefully the money that I get from my pre-registration year can go towards my fees...and I think that if you really want to do medicine you wouldn't care about the debt as by the time you are 40, that would have all gone away.

    BUT I do agree that those who are considering applying for graduate medicine should know about the real risk of it and what to expect in the future. So thanks for bringing it up.

    As I said in another thread, there are soo many more considering graduate entry on TSR then when I was applying...there were hardly any threads and so many medics tried to put me off ...but now tbh it seems to be the norm
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    (Original post by ballerinabetty)
    my first degree. which because it was at a private school i could not get student finance so had to pay myself.
    you would not be asked this question at an interview because medicine is your first degree and so you are entitled to student finance. it would be a consideration for a graduate on a 5yr course.
    Thats a rather incorrect assumption. For a start, my citizenship is very funny, so while it is EU, they might question how long I have been in Britain, thus they would be as concerned (if they were concerned) about me being able to pay my way as potential graduate medical students. I have yet to see one person speak on this forum about being asked about whether they could pay their way during the 4/5 years of uni.
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    For ****'s sake, nobody is assessed on their ability to pay when they apply to study medicine. Stop talking crap.
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    ahem,. oh ye who cant seem to fink straight for yourselves, and who fink life is just a treadmill of peeple going to university.

    why would universities need assess your finances if you cant even get to the stage where you can make an application?

    and who ever 'eard of a university that didnt continually check that your payments are up to date at every stage of your study, and wouldnt prevent you from progressing if you didnt pay?
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    (Original post by Single Malt)
    Thats a rather incorrect assumption. For a start, my citizenship is very funny, so while it is EU, they might question how long I have been in Britain, thus they would be as concerned (if they were concerned) about me being able to pay my way as potential graduate medical students. I have yet to see one person speak on this forum about being asked about whether they could pay their way during the 4/5 years of uni.
    probably becos to them you arent unusual at all, as they deal wif thousands of you.

    they know you inside out, Malteser.


    goodness, truth be told, the peeple who plan marketing for institutions and businesses know stuff about us from the postcode we provide and the street we are born in, and that infos there before we are even born (this may not down well on a forum like this, so i apologise in advance!).
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    If you look at all the websites and prospectuses of the med schools, I believe one thing they mention is how financially demanding it is. They assume that you would be rational and sensible (qualities you should be demonstrating to be a Dr anyway) and not apply for a course you can't complete. If you do happen to get part way through and have a major life event that suddenly changes your financial situation for the worse, the student union will have a welfare section that can help you find funding from other sources like banks, charities and University Hardship Burseries. Although these last ones are not normally offered to Grads as the norm, should you be in dire need of it, as ballarinabetty said, they have invested a lot of time and money in you to get you that far, so they may see if it is possible to get you that bursery as a last resort. They would not discriminate against you at interiew and not offer to you because of you situation though, as they would not know. They prob just asked you so you could demonstrate you have thought about the practicalities of the course: fees, studying, travel costs, living expenses etc.
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    mm but you wouldnt get to the interview stage if you couldnt finance yourself, would you?
    and you certainly wouldnt progress beyond week 1?

    well, no you wouldnt.
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    (Original post by Gizmo!)
    why would universities need assess your finances if you cant even get to the stage where you can make an application?
    What's stopping you then?
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    why would anyfing be stopping me?

    i'm quite prepared to look beyond 'me' in what i say. perhaps you might care to share that this leaf, macca.
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    (Original post by Gizmo!)
    why would anyfing be stopping me?

    i'm quite prepared to look beyond 'me' in what i say. perhaps you might care to share that this leaf, macca.
    I wasn't talking about you personally, but the hypothetical "you" that you spoke of which couldn't even get to the stage where they could apply. It costs £18 to send an application. What stops someone from applying due to financial reasons?

    Given the real meaning of my post, it makes your second paragraph somewhat ironic.
 
 
 
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