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    If anyone wants to throw up please go ahead and read the following article.

    http://blogs.soccernet.com/stokecity...s_can_ho_1.php

    I'm so angry I can't even put it into words.
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    Djourou has returned from the desert island he was stranded on and is returning to training soon. He will have to have a wash and a shave first though:

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    (Original post by In2deep)
    If anyone wants to throw up please go ahead and read the following article.

    http://blogs.soccernet.com/stokecity...s_can_ho_1.php

    I'm so angry I can't even put it into words.
    Somehow managed to get to the end of that bile..
    So long as attitudes such as this exist within the game Arsenal (an others) players will continue to leave the ground on stretchers. How can you defend Shawcross, I don't think he meant it but that's irrelevant, he's still broken our players' leg in two places. This 'he's not that kind of player' 'he's never got a red card' ******** has to stop. Knobbled Jeffers a couple of years ago, nearly did Adebarndoor last year and this year Ramsey, considering he's not that kind of player he's pretty good at being that kind of player..
    You only have to see him charging around the pitch like some roid ravaged pitbull to see that he's a player trying to compensate for his inferior ability and skills with blood and thunder, and he's lauded for it. The english public and media (I'm not gonna be snobbish, myself included) loves the kind of last ditch, gladiatorial defending that's purveyed with varying degress of success from 6ft tall 6ft wide lad who'd kick you round the schoolyard up to our dear leader, John Terry. We don't want our defenders subtly reading the game making intelligent decisions, we'd much prefer they were caught woefully out of position make up the 50 yards ground on Johnny Foreigner and take him out just before he knocks us out the World Cup, if our guy gets the ball well great. 'No nonsene', 'Commitment' and 'Bravery' are, in the context of the English game, euphemisms for technical inferiority and poor intelligence.
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    (Original post by voodoomagic)
    Somehow managed to get to the end of that bile..
    So long as attitudes such as this exist within the game Arsenal (an others) players will continue to leave the ground on stretchers. How can you defend Shawcross, I don't think he meant it but that's irrelevant, he's still broken our players' leg in two places. This 'he's not that kind of player' 'he's never got a red card' ******** has to stop. Knobbled Jeffers a couple of years ago, nearly did Adebarndoor last year and this year Ramsey, considering he's not that kind of player he's pretty good at being that kind of player..
    You only have to see him charging around the pitch like some roid ravaged pitbull to see that he's a player trying to compensate for his inferior ability and skills with blood and thunder, and he's lauded for it. The english public and media (I'm not gonna be snobbish, myself included) loves the kind of last ditch, gladiatorial defending that's purveyed with varying degress of success from 6ft tall 6ft wide lad who'd kick you round the schoolyard up to our dear leader, John Terry. We don't want our defenders subtly reading the game making intelligent decisions, we'd much prefer they were caught woefully out of position make up the 50 yards ground on Johnny Foreigner and take him out just before he knocks us out the World Cup, if our guy gets the ball well great. 'No nonsene', 'Commitment' and 'Bravery' are, in the context of the English game, euphemisms for technical inferiority and poor intelligence.
    Have you never watched foreign football before :lolwut:
    Defenders the world over are nasty pieces of work, it is part of the mental aspect of the game to put the striker off.

    Edit: There was a lot of sympathy for Arsenal football club when this happened, but when people come out with this sort of nonsense it makes it much harder. Now it just seems like some Franch dandy running around with a perfumed hankerchief and a face caked in make-up going "ooo woe is me darling"
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    (Original post by voodoomagic)
    Somehow managed to get to the end of that bile..
    So long as attitudes such as this exist within the game Arsenal (an others) players will continue to leave the ground on stretchers. How can you defend Shawcross, I don't think he meant it but that's irrelevant, he's still broken our players' leg in two places. This 'he's not that kind of player' 'he's never got a red card' ******** has to stop. Knobbled Jeffers a couple of years ago, nearly did Adebarndoor last year and this year Ramsey, considering he's not that kind of player he's pretty good at being that kind of player..
    You only have to see him charging around the pitch like some roid ravaged pitbull to see that he's a player trying to compensate for his inferior ability and skills with blood and thunder, and he's lauded for it. The english public and media (I'm not gonna be snobbish, myself included) loves the kind of last ditch, gladiatorial defending that's purveyed with varying degress of success from 6ft tall 6ft wide lad who'd kick you round the schoolyard up to our dear leader, John Terry. We don't want our defenders subtly reading the game making intelligent decisions, we'd much prefer they were caught woefully out of position make up the 50 yards ground on Johnny Foreigner and take him out just before he knocks us out the World Cup, if our guy gets the ball well great. 'No nonsene', 'Commitment' and 'Bravery' are, in the context of the English game, euphemisms for technical inferiority and poor intelligence.
    Chiellini. He who apparently took out RVP earlier in the season, also not English. Puyol is not your typical continental defender either.......
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    (Original post by meskell)
    Have you never watched foreign football before :lolwut:
    Defenders the world over are nasty pieces of work, it is part of the mental aspect of the game to put the striker off.
    Not as much as I'd like no. I'd agree we haven't quite produced anyone of the notoriety of Goiko but I believe that preference for physicality over technique is by far best exemplified here.
    Out national team we've got this magnificent iconic image of Terry Butcher, and yet, despite his sins, Glenn Hoddle is largely forgotten as one of the best footballers we've ever produced.
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    (Original post by voodoomagic)
    Not as much as I'd like no. I'd agree we haven't quite produced anyone of the notoriety of Goiko but I believe that preference for physicality over technique is by far best exemplified here.
    Out national team we've got this magnificent iconic image of Terry Butcher, and yet, despite his sins, Glenn Hoddle is largely forgotten as one of the best footballers we've ever produced.
    If you don't watch foreign football then how can you hold the foreign defenders up as some kind of masters of the art of getting the ball without tackling? :confused:

    There are a lot of foreign defenders, notoriously Argentinians and Italians, who happily take players out off the ball, crunch in to them knee high and rake their studs down the back of their legs to cause niggly injuries.

    Marchena is a brilliant example of this kind of behaviour (Spanish I know, but every nation does it).

    Edit: Defending is an art and 'roughing' up the pansies is part and parcel of it.

    And to everyone who keeps saying "these teams target us" have you ever noticed teams such as Bolton and Stoke play any differently against any other team? They play the exact same, high tempo, high aggresion, hard tackling tactics against every single team, it just so happens that the Arsenal players (in general) are much smaller than other teams. So any calls for "all the teams should be protected" is really just a "nobody else really moans that much, but it is affecting us so could we please have more protection under the guise of giving 'everyone' more protection."
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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    Chiellini. He who apparently tool out RVP earlier in the season, also not English. Puyol is not your typical continental defender either.......
    Puyol is very good footballing defender, he'd be Stoke's playmaker.

    What I choose to do with my perfumed hankerchiefs is my own business, when you choose a player because he gets stuck in rather than because he can actually make a competent tackle you end up with the reckless challenges like the one on Saturday. It was more a wider point about english attitudes to defending than just pinpointing at Shawcross. When you send out technically inept footballers with the gameplan of 'they don't like it up 'em' then eventually someone gets hurt.
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    (Original post by JK_91)
    I agree with you tbh, if you (anyone) were asked to briefly describe the differences between the english game and that of other countries around the continent, even around the world as a whole you'd have to say the physical side of the english game is one of the stand out points. But more often than not physicality just means brutality, which will result in a poor spectacle and inevitable injuries.

    On Hoddle, I think it was Ossie Ardiles who described him as 'Maradona without pace' a few months back, now that may be taking it too far, it certainly made me lol, but you're right, he is one of the best players the country has produced but barely gets recognition of that.

    Edit: I'm not saying there aren't players who are more physical than technical anywhere other over here, but it tends to be a case of individuals rather than whole teams.
    If the physical nature of the English game produces such a poor spectacle why is it the most watched in the world?
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    I am that ******* close to losing faith in people. I really am.

    The world is populated by *****.
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    (Original post by voodoomagic)
    Puyol is very good footballing defender, he'd be Stoke's playmaker.

    What I choose to do with my perfumed hankerchiefs is my own business, when you choose a player because he gets stuck in rather than because he can actually make a competent tackle you end up with the reckless challenges like the one on Saturday. It was more a wider point about english attitudes to defending than just pinpointing at Shawcross. When you send out technically inept footballers with the gameplan of 'they don't like it up 'em' then eventually someone gets hurt.
    Puyol is a nasty piece of work, a really nasty piece of work. He is well renowned for it and he does it brilliantly.

    John Terry for instance (who you are saying is your typical hoofer) is always reported as being one of the most skillfull players in England just that he doesn't do it during matches as it is not his job.
    (This is not what I am saying, it is what is reported by people not working any angle).

    You seem to just want to belittle English football and say foreign is the best, despite admitting you barely watch foreign football.
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    (Original post by meskell)
    If you don't watch foreign football then how can you hold the foreign defenders up as some kind of masters of the art of getting the ball without tackling? :confused:

    There are a lot of foreign defenders, notoriously Argentinians and Italians, who happily take players out off the ball, crunch in to them knee high and rake their studs down the back of their legs to cause niggly injuries.
    How is "not as much as I'd like' the same as I "don't watch foreign football"

    My argument is tinted slightly by the great italian defenders of the previous decade perhaps, the quality of their defenders has slid a little in the past few years. The home of the catanaccio and librero where defending was about denying space and starting attakcs from the back, not hobbling people.
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    (Original post by voodoomagic)
    Puyol is very good footballing defender, he'd be Stoke's playmaker.

    What I choose to do with my perfumed hankerchiefs is my own business, when you choose a player because he gets stuck in rather than because he can actually make a competent tackle you end up with the reckless challenges like the one on Saturday. It was more a wider point about english attitudes to defending than just pinpointing at Shawcross. When you send out technically inept footballers with the gameplan of 'they don't like it up 'em' then eventually someone gets hurt.
    You just said you don't watch much foreign football, yet you can somehow dismiss my take on Puyol. How? He's not technically the best defender in the world.....

    Perfumed hankerchiefs? Good for you.....

    Rosicky summed it up in an interview on SSN today, he said something like 'we don't mind the committed, physical teams but would like more protection....' :facepalm2: Arsenal fans were lolling around when Ronaldo was getting kicked around the pitch a few years ago..... oh the hypocrisy.
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    (Original post by meskell)
    John Terry for instance (who you are saying is your typical hoofer) is always reported as being one of the most skillfull players in England just that he doesn't do it during matches as it is not his job.
    (This is not what I am saying, it is what is reported by people not working any angle).
    He's good on the ball, I never denied or even mentioned that. He's the pinnacle of the english defender, he has the tecnique and ability that those that try to copy him lack. That was what I should've said in my post.
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    (Original post by voodoomagic)
    How is "not as much as I'd like' the same as I "don't watch foreign football"

    My argument is tinted slightly by the great italian defenders of the previous decade perhaps, the quality of their defenders has slid a little in the past few years. The home of the catanaccio and librero where defending was about denying space and starting attakcs from the back, not hobbling people.
    But it was about hobbling people as well! The likes of Baresi use to just boot a player up in the air if he went past them, Nesta did the same, I don't know who else you want to include in that.

    The only reason it is such an issue now is that people like to moan more over here. In Italy they still do it if you watch the games, it is part and parcel of defending. Football is called a contact sport for a reason.

    Defending is always about denying space, reading the game, anticipation etc but it is also about being able to tackle, being strong, quick and physical. Denying defenders the oppurtunity to stop attackers would just result in games either being 12-10 or two teams 'parking the bus' because they aren't allowed to throw a tackle in.
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    Except Anthony, I'm negging everyone in that other thread for proving my point that this country needs gassing for thinking so little of itself and not responding to a challenge.
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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    You just said you don't watch much foreign football, yet you can somehow dismiss my take on Puyol. How? He's not technically the best defender in the world.....

    Perfumed hankerchiefs? Good for you.....

    Rosicky summed it up in an interview on SSN today, he said something like 'we don't mind the committed, physical teams but would like more protection....' :facepalm2: Arsenal fans were lolling around when Ronaldo was getting kicked around the pitch a few years ago..... oh the hypocrisy.
    The hankerchief mention was a reference to Meskell's post.

    I agree with you about Puyol, like Terry he's good on the ball even if doesn't go about getting it brilliantly. I'd say he was the exception rather than the rule, as you said he's not a 'conventional continental defender'. Strange how this has spiralled turned into continental vs english, when I made no reference in my first post to their supposed superiority. Why would I mention it when I'm doing such a good job of exposing my own shallow knowledge of it. Just because I'm talking about english football dispararginly doesn't immediately implicitly imply I'm professing support for contemporary european football.
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    to be fair, a lot of continental defenders are absolute brutes. Walter Samuel being my favourite example. Strangely enough, his partner Lucio is the opposite. His game against Chelsea last week was outstanding IMO.
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    (Original post by Hubert Poo)
    Except Anthony, I'm negging everyone in that other thread for proving my point that this country needs gassing for thinking so little of itself and not responding to a challenge.
    Report all the tl;dr *****, Poo, surely that's spamming?

    I've read it and will reply at some point, just need to finish reading some uni stuff.
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    (Original post by JK_91)
    I'd imagine its more the Arsenals, Chelseas, Liverpools and Utds who are watched worldwide rather than the Stokes and Boltons etc

    Using the Stoke example again, if we are going to compare to the main rival for viewing it would have to be Spain, the corresponding team, in terms of momentary placement in the table over there is Athletico. Who would you rather watch, a bunch of scotes trying to throw the ball into the next whilst hacking half the opposition to pieces or a team of technical players who work their chances well and try to win that way?

    Cesc Fabregas is one of the dirtyest players in the prem.

    Arsenal over the last 10 years are one of the dirtyest teams.
 
 
 
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