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    Guys just GTFO. None have you have mentioned Almunia yet. or Silvestre. :facepalm: I'm honestly ashamed.
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    (Original post by Deshi)
    Rofl :rofl:

    Rosicky's world class and not Gerrard!? Jog on mate.
    Although Gerrard's best days are behind him, he was definitely world-class for a sustained period of time. He carried you on so many occasions, ultimate carry-day was the Gerrard Cup final. Just a beast of a display that day.
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    (Original post by n1r4v)
    Your definition of world class almost seems to be "being able to fit them into a World XI", one which I cannot understand, have never encountered and seems completely useless in discussion.
    No, it's about them fitting into a world-class squad. Ie, from your squad you can pick any formation and there won't be a player not in it who is better than your option. That gives scope for 2/3/4 possible players per position, loosely and probably works out to be somewhere between 30 and 35 players.

    I thought the (almost) universally accepted definition of world class was that the player is one of the best in the world in their position.
    One of the best how many? There comes a point where the first player in your list is a cut above the last player rather than there being very little in it. For me, Maicon, Alves, Bosingwa are all a cut above any other rightbacks in the world. For that reason, the likes of Sagna, Arbeloa and Johnson are not world class.

    What on earth is the point of defining world class as being able to fit them into one "super-side",? If that was indeed your definition and going with your 30 man squad analogy, then are you saying that there are only 2 world class goalkeepers in the world?
    I'll humour you here... about 30 men is probably a little low, but an ideal squad I doubt would be more than 35. When people have 3 goalies in a 22 man squad, you'd reasonably expect the same or possibly even another in a 30-35 man squad.


    Are you saying that there are only 2 world class centre forwards in the world?
    You honeslty believe if you asked Capello to pick a squad of 30 he would only have two strikers? There'd be at least 5, possibly 6 or 7 though I doubt there would be one who is basically one of the others just not quite as good. Eto'o, Ibra, Torres, Villa, Drogba, Rooney - all markedly different players.

    World class is, like it says in the word, a "class" or a "category". It doesn't consist of just one player in a certain position.
    I know it doesn't, but it certainly doesn't include enough that Rosicky is on the register. 5 seems to be stretching it when there is a notable difference between the very best and the 5th best.
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    (Original post by RobbieC)
    I am enraged by the lack of moderation... Just poor.
    What would you have us do?

    If we were to put a stop to his posts in here, we would have to warn you for insults. His "trolling" isn't wildly different to many Arsenal fans "WUMming", so if we were to warn him for this we would have to warn an Arsenal fan every time they decided to have a bit of fun in someone else's thread. If we were to allow things to sort themselves out (and as a positive it generally means the talk in this thread is more about football than it is normally) then we're accused of a lack of moderation.

    It's not a case of poor moderation. It's a case of threads like this making it damned difficult to moderate. If we were to follow to the letter of the law ~70% of the posts in here would have been deleted - and a large amount of warnings would have been handed out for repeated spamming, trolling and insults. However, we personally feel that this is neither what is required or what is wanted, so we're trying to give you some freedom on this thread. If you would prefer a sanitised nightmare, you only have to let us know.

    (Original post by Hubert Poo)
    Gah. My text dictionary is so crap. "We just beat Burnjew 3-1 after a lot of huffing and pudding." :facepalm2:
    Why the hell do you have burnjew in your phone's dictionary? :lolwut:
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    (Original post by El Stevo)
    x
    Erm, when did I say Rosicky was world class?

    Anyway I only mentioned 2 centre forwards because I was thinking of the 4-3-3 formation that representation the Fifa World XI (and your post seemed to be referring to that).

    In any case, it seems like the definition of world class I have developed is different to yours, and if I see more people disagree with my idea of "world class" in the future, then I'll concede that my idea of "world class" is too broad. But over the years, I've never really heard the term "world class" to be used in some sort of "World Team XI" as you've mentioned; that I'm sure of. But regarding the "broadness" of the term 'class', like I said, I'm not sure and it seems subjective.
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    (Original post by n1r4v)
    Erm, when did I say Rosicky was world class?
    It had been referred to in this thread, and I acknowledged it wasn't you...

    Anyway I only mentioned 2 centre forwards because I was thinking of the 4-3-3 formation that representation the Fifa World XI (and your post seemed to be referring to that).

    In any case, it seems like the definition of world class I have developed is different to yours, and if I see more people disagree with my idea of "world class" in the future, then I'll concede that my idea of "world class" is too broad. But over the years, I've never really heard the term "world class" to be used in some sort of "World Team XI" as you've mentioned; that I'm sure of. But regarding the "broadness" of the term 'class', like I said, I'm not sure and it seems subjective.
    World class is simply someone who ranks amongst the best in the world. As I said I personally would put Sagna on a level below Bosingwa, Maicon, Alves, so with that he isn't world class.
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    we have debates around what 'world-class' means every year on here, probably more than once a year. I really enjoy seeing the same old arguments being regurgitated and recycled. Keep up the good work, fellas.

    remember, "form is temporary, class is permanent"
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    There is so much stupidity floating around in basically every post since I went to bed last night, that there simply isn't the time for me to confront it all. I am not even sure if - despite reading every messed up post that took place - I can remember it all, because my short term memory has been saturated with ridiculum and the ever-nonsensical discussion of world-classness has polluted this thread. For ***** sake.

    To select one moment of madness, I have to say, would be Overmars' comments on Gallas. I mean have you watched him play this season? He has been excellent... at his absolute best for us this year, and better than I ever remember him being at Chelsea. He and Vermaelen have clicked in an emphatic way, and if you are going to berate him and suggest we buy some other gigantic defender who just heads the ball away (ala Hangelaand), then you have a serious dysfunction.

    I honestly cannot understand comments regarding Gallas as a ****** defender, not least because that is a despicable descriptive term, and a massive lack of respect for one of our strongest and most spirited performers. Gallas is always the one bombing around in injury time when others are feeling tired and crying off about how we're a goal down. He never gives up, and so it makes it even more enraging that you appear to have given up on him. Joke.
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    Agree with RobbieC tbh. He's had a good season, seems to have moved on very well since that away game at (was it) Birmingham (?). Got his head down, not thrown any hissy-fits since then, and played well. You were fortunate yesterday for Burnley not to have drawn level at 2-2, similar to how fortunate we were yesterday, although I thought Vokes was in an offside position, but it would have counted had he found the back of the net...you were fortunate that your inept clinicality in front of goal wasn't punished.

    clinicality is a word, intit? :confused: :cool:
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    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    Agree with RobbieC tbh. He's had a good season, seems to have moved on very well since that away game at (was it) Birmingham (?). Got his head down, not thrown any hissy-fits since then, and played well. You were fortunate yesterday for Burnley not to have drawn level at 2-2, similar to how fortunate we were yesterday, although I thought Vokes was in an offside position, but it would have counted had he found the back of the net...you were fortunate that your inept clinicality in front of goal wasn't punished.

    clinicality is a word, intit? :confused: :cool:
    Lawro probably thinks it is a word, if that counts?

    As for agreeing with me, it is certainly the way forward.

    Right I am off to buy apricot jam in prep for the orgy of WUM when Chelsea lose today to a bobble throw.
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    (Original post by RobbieC)
    Lawro probably thinks it is a word, if that counts?

    As for agreeing with me, it is certainly the way forward.

    Right I am off to buy apricot jam in prep for the orgy of WUM when Chelsea lose today to a bobble throw.
    off to see Michael Moore's 'Capitalism - A love story' :cool:

    I'm expecting Hilario and Terry to have another blinder of a game this afternoon. I thought they were triffic last weekend :cool:
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    (Original post by El Stevo)
    Exactly how many world-class rightbacks can you fit into a side? Even if you picked a 30 man 'world-class' squad (about as many players as you'd need to complete a domestic season) there isn't room for 5 rightbacks.

    Sagna was awesome two seasons ago, possibly world-class. Last year he was probably 4th best rightback in the Premiership... That's definitely not world-class. Of the three better than him last season - Arbeloa left for Spain, Johnson's been injured a bunch as has Bosingwa, so there really has been no competition for it. Defaulted best EPL rightback of 09/10 does not make you world-class, especially on the back of a really average season and doing nothing that overly marks him out this season.

    Re other posters - Rosicky? My God. As for not Gerrard? My God. You can't have it both ways with Gerrard. You can't make out he's carried a team on it's back for the best part of a decade, to European titles, domestic cups and the occasional title challenge and then say he isn't world class. Gerrard is one of two English players who would get in any team in the world, along with Rooney. That, is world-class. He's had a pretty awful season by his standards, in the same way Fabregas, Rooney have had exceptional ones compared to his.

    Defining world-class is hard. Exceptional Liverpool players would be Torres, Reina, Gerrard and Mascherano. Would your world-class team have those 4 players in it? No, for starters - Mascherano's position would probably be redundant, but there really are none better in the world at his role. Equally, a world-class team probably wouldn't have Torres on his own up front, which is where he is definitely world class. Would Gerrard be afforded a free role between the lines in a world-class team - probably not, yet you would struggle to find a player proven to be better suited to having a team built around him than Gerrard.

    Rosicky? Marvellously capable and intelligent player who probably could have been world-class in another man's body. Suffers from too many injuries and never had the chance to consistently prove his ability. Such is life. You have to take into account every facet of player if you want to judge him against the world's best, an inability to have a consistent season will count against you, be it because of injuries, laziness, bog standard inconsistency, or whatever.
    4th best? That's complete *****. Sagna has been consistently excellent since joining Arsenal
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    (Original post by El Stevo)
    One of the best how many? There comes a point where the first player in your list is a cut above the last player rather than there being very little in it. For me, Maicon, Alves, Bosingwa are all a cut above any other rightbacks in the world. For that reason, the likes of Sagna, Arbeloa and Johnson are not world class.
    I'd only consider Maicon over Sagna personally, the role of a right back is to defend which Sagna does as good as any player in the game
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    Everytime a long ball is pumped into our area, Gallas isn't there. I don't buy the whole "Well, that's ok, because Vermaelen will t**t it back" rubbish. We need more players like Vermaelen who love to attack the ball. Gallas isn't that type of player. What are his strengths? His last-ditch tackles and man-marking when the ball's on the ground? Great....apart from the opposition know this and won't bother trying to play on the ground if they know they can get an easy goal through some head-tennis (or lack of it). Gallas isn't getting any younger and we should be looking to replace him this summer. And we will do, because he's not committed enough to sign an extension. And when he does piss off this summer...and he will -- quote me on this -- Wenger will be forced to buy a new CB and we'll be better off.

    After watching a 'past-it' Sol come back and seem like a massive improvement, I can't help but think we're missing a massive trick. We can blame the goalie, we can blame Clichy or Denilson or whatever...but it's the long balls -- that has been our problem for years. Gallas isn't the only one responsible but, as the most experienced player in the first XI, he has been responsible for organising our defence. He's not a leader. He might be a good no.2 alongside Sol or Vermaelen...but what I'm saying is that we need 2 no.1's -- two defensive leaders that actually know how to attack long-balls is better than just one.

    Honestly, I'd play Sol-Vermaelen in our big game against Porto even if Gallas is fit.
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    Moving aside from a repetitive, and needless debate, good to see our loanees doing well this season.

    Wilshere bagging his first goal for Bolton with a simple yet impressive finish,
    We all know about Chesnefjkhghgdy,
    Two goals yesterday for Emmanuel-Thomas in his second game for the Dons away to Bristol City,
    Simpson maintaining his goalscoring run with 12 in 28 for QPR,
    Lansbury becoming an ever-present for Watford this season, including 3 goals,
    Nordtveit has earnt 14 starts for Nurnberg over in Germany,
    Pedro has been a useful acquisition for Celta Vigo, including scoring as they knocked Villareal out of the Copa Del Rey,
    and Sunu and Randall have been given a few games since going out too.
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    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1OtzU...ture=topvideos :giggle:
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    (Original post by Overmars)
    Everytime a long ball is pumped into our area, Gallas isn't there. I don't buy the whole "Well, that's ok, because Vermaelen will t**t it back" rubbish. We need more players like Vermaelen who love to attack the ball. Gallas isn't that type of player. What are his strengths? His last-ditch tackles and man-marking when the ball's on the ground? Great....apart from the opposition know this and won't bother trying to play on the ground if they know they can get an easy goal through some head-tennis (or lack of it). Gallas isn't getting any younger and we should be looking to replace him this summer. And we will do, because he's not committed enough to sign an extension. And when he does piss off this summer...and he will -- quote me on this -- Wenger will be forced to buy a new CB and we'll be better off.

    After watching a 'past-it' Sol come back and seem like a massive improvement, I can't help but think we're missing a massive trick. We can blame the goalie, we can blame Clichy or Denilson or whatever...but it's the long balls -- that has been our problem for years. Gallas isn't the only one responsible but, as the most experienced player in the first XI, he has been responsible for organising our defence. He's not a leader. He might be a good no.2 alongside Sol or Vermaelen...but what I'm saying is that we need 2 no.1's -- two defensive leaders that actually know how to attack long-balls is better than just one.

    Honestly, I'd play Sol-Vermaelen in our big game against Porto even if Gallas is fit.
    I honestly agree with you, the only problem with Sol is he apparently can't play more than one game each week so that won't be great even if it was for the remainder of this season. The only thing Gallas has going for him is his last-minute ditch tackles but it's his inadequacies that got him there in the first place. Vermaelen attacks strikers and that is important but I disagree having two Vermaelen's being a good thing. If we have two guys attacking the ball and somehow miss the bloody thing then what's going to happen. We just need to get someone who does the Gallas' job better than Gallas. A real sweeper that can cover Vermaelen and can also head the ******* ball.

    and tbh I'm tired of my dad telling me that Arsenal are second rate for buying a cry-baby that was rejected from a better club :facepalm: That is enough reason to sell him imo.


    (Original post by El Stevo)
    ....
    Sagna is world-class. End of discussion.
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    That's a big statement Syn, in some ways I can see where you're coming from. But Gallas has been brilliant this season and I believe he's committed to Arsenal, i'd be very surprised if he doesn't sign a new contract.
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    (Original post by Economist)
    But Gallas has been brilliant this season and I believe he's committed to Arsenal, i'd be very surprised if he doesn't sign a new contract.
    I don't know what it means for football players to be 'committed' any more. These days it's very rare if a player stays at the same club for 7+ years whereas it used to be the norm. I wouldn't say Gallas is committed but I'd say he is a true professional.

    Evidently, Flamini wasn't 'committed' to the club but you'd never have guessed looking at his performances in his final season for us. I'd define that to be professionalism -- no matter how you feel you've been treated, if you can put that aside and play well, that's a good attitude.

    Since being stripped of the captaincy, Gallas has reacted in a positive way. But I honestly don't get how he can earn so much praise leading one of the leakiest defences of a top English side. The stats are clear. We score enough but concede too many.
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    (Original post by Overmars)
    Since being stripped of the captaincy, Gallas has reacted in a positive way. But I honestly don't get how he can earn so much praise leading one of the leakiest defences of a top English side. The stats are clear. We score enough but concede too many.
    True but I don't think you can blame Gallas, TV has been beaten to a number of headers himself. IMO they are great defenders and whilst they have a decent partnership both would be better off playing with a big enforcer
 
 
 
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