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    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    there's a relationship between officiating and a lack of respect for officials. If bad decisions are made by the referee, it's understandable that players, managers and fans lose respect for referees. Referees are human beings and make mistakes, fair do's, but there comes a point where a line is crossed and the quality of officiating is simply downright unacceptable, intolerable and taking the piss. Platini should try and embrace the concept of harm-reduction and try out video technology and the like. But being the clumsy, incompetent clown that he is, I can't see this materializing.

    Off to bed.
    Oh c'mon don't talk crap. Players clearly berate and argue with the officials when they themselves are absolutely certain that the right decision was made.
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    Watch the referee closely. He tells Henry to wait for the whistle but once Henry takes the free kick he allows the goal to stand despite Chelsea not being set defensively and the whistle not being blown.

    If the quick free kick/backpass decision would of been the other way around today then Arsenal supporters would be maintaining it was a flash of genius and quick thinking.
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    (Original post by RobbieC)
    I would have thought Wenger's problem with their 'goal' was the same as mine... they took the freekick while he was facing away from the ball, and the field and stopping Campbell from doing anything.
    It wasn't.
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    Have to say Sol was one positive tonight, that recovery tackle (from Denilson's disgraceful pass) was immense
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    (Original post by meskell)


    Watch the referee closely. He tells Henry to wait for the whistle but once Henry takes the free kick he allows the goal to stand despite Chelsea not being set defensively.

    If the quick free kick/backpass decision would of been the other way around today then Arsenal supporters would be maintaining it was a flash of genius and quick thinking.
    Agree (tho the ref is looking at him when he strikes the ball unlike today when he had no idea what was going on). However, it was due to these situations that ref's have now become more strict with the whistle. They can't come back to the old rules when and where they please.
    Not happy with the game but not an impossible task by any means.

    However, I feel if we do not get the 1st goal it will be over.

    Our keeps are really starting to annoy me now as well. Also why is it every CL year we seem to get screwed by the ref grrrr.
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    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    Why oh why are Arsenal seemingly so reluctant to pull the trigger and shoot straight away? An example tonight was Diaby on one particular occasion. Ridiculous.

    You should put them away at the Emirates. Have enough firepower to at least outscore Porto.
    agree 100% about diaby. FFs shooot. Pisses me off! Same old arsenal
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    (Original post by TMDaines)
    To be honest the standard of officiating in football isn't any worse than any other similar sports. It's just a combination of a lack of respect for the officials and the high profile nature of the sport that makes mistakes more glaring. In Union if the referee makes a mistake the players aren't questioning it and just accept the decision. The mistake doesn't receive anywhere near the same coverage and analysis either.
    That's absolute ********. Horror decisions are made constantly and respect has nothing to do with it. Why should anyone accept an official missing a clear foul when he's standing 10 metres away, it's completely ridiculous. It's not 1 mistake a season, it's one mistake a half in modern football
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    (Original post by GunnerMT)
    Also why is it every CL year we seem to get screwed by the ref grrrr.
    :confused: You were pretty much outplayed last year weren't you, in fact Utd got a bad decision with Fletcher's red
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    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    there's a relationship between officiating and a lack of respect for officials. If bad decisions are made by the referee, it's understandable that players, managers and fans lose respect for referees. Referees are human beings and make mistakes, fair do's, but there comes a point where a line is crossed and the quality of officiating is simply downright unacceptable, intolerable and taking the piss. Platini should try and embrace the concept of harm-reduction and try out video technology and the like. But being the clumsy, incompetent clown that he is, I can't see this materializing.

    Off to bed.

    Wtf, i'm almost tempted to rep you for that, you do have some sense :yep:
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    I really don't see the problem with the freekick (unless of course it doesn't work in your favour then naturally the sky will start falling... but I digress). It's the referee's perogative whether he makes you wait for the whistle or not. Be alert and get ready to defend immeadiately (amazing how in most other ball sports this is a given but in football the "Not Fair" card always comes out). The freekick is given to the offensive team after all, not the defensive team.
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    (Original post by meskell)
    If the quick free kick/backpass decision would of been the other way around today then Arsenal supporters would be maintaining it was a flash of genius and quick thinking.
    I don't think it's the legality of the goal that is in question, it's the active role the referee had in creating it that is causing bitterness. He asks for the ball from Fabianski then gives it to the Porto and blocks Campbell off, meanwhile Fabianski is distracted because he's talking to the linesman. Legally, yes there's nothing wrong with the goal, but it's poor control of the game from the officials. While the non-offending team should be allowed to take all advantage from a free kick, the officials shouldn't be helping them (inadvertently or not) to do so.
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    (Original post by Economist)
    That's absolute ********. Horror decisions are made constantly and respect has nothing to do with it. Why should anyone accept an official missing a clear foul when he's standing 10 metres away, it's completely ridiculous. It's not 1 mistake a season, it's one mistake a half in modern football
    It happens in every other invasion sport played on a large pitch all the time also. Union, League, American Football... take your pick.
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    (Original post by Kevmeister)
    There's no doubt for me wrt technical ability, ye are miles ahead of all teams in the league. Wenger must know about the psychological issue....

    WRT responsibility, Wenger has to take the blame for that, when he says 'We were unlucky...' despite clear evidence that mistakes cost ye then he's basically making the players infallible.
    Although I don't want it to appear I'm jumping on any anti-Wenger bandwagon (the older posters will be aware I've made this criticism many times before), that is, along with his tactical naivety, his biggest failing as a manager. He knows about it alright - because he created it.

    Teams are ultimately in psychological terms reflections of their managers. Ferguson is the very best example of a manager able to distill absolute raw grit, stubbornness and frightful rage into a heady mix of eleven players. He's also wonderfully adaptable - his stubbornness only extends so far. If something isn't working he'll change it, eventually. Why? Simple. He is concerned obsessively with winning, and knows his own pride is related to it more acutely than how he wins. Mourinho is similar in many senses but Ferguson is the example. His teams naturally give off that aura - they are hard working, they truly never give up, they fear their manager's response if the performance is not what Manchester United expect, and they are extraordinarily focused and pragmatic.

    Arsene? He is not a pragmatist. He is an idealist. A romantic. Now, though we could go into territory as to say his style doesn't work, I feel that's far too simplistic. It does work. But it may not work as often.

    In terms of mentality Arsene has always been far quicker to fly off the handle when mind games are being played, contrary to what some may say. He is ultimately a much softer individual than Ferguson and his intimate idealistic connection with what he is building runs against that of Ferguson - his only intimate concern is what his construction ultimate does. This is partly his downfall. When things need to be changed, Arsene is not so quick to react. People could come at me and suggest of course he changes things, but that isn't the point. The point is speed of reaction and the ability to make any player a mere pawn in the effort of winning. It is not a coincidence that Ferguson's players are arguably astonishingly loyal compared to others - that's because players respond to honesty, of whatever polarity, and they know where they stand with him. Frankly I think some of our players view Wenger as manipulatable and I would agree with that analysis. Simply on token of emotion. Where emotion reigns it is far easier to control someone or at least use them. In someone who has higher priorities, you have to play it their way.

    Our team as a result is weak in the head. They respond idealistically to situations that demand pragmatism. I'm not talking about style of player either - but when we concede goals that we shouldn't have in ordinary play, or when we feel the ref has ****** up. The pragmatist gets his head down. Instinctively he'll feel just as angry as the idealist, but he'll be angry in a focussed way. His rage will be constructive because he knows the goal will not be disallowed no matter how much he moans and his only way back into the game is to consider the referee an idle threat and throttle the opposition with accurate, incisive, and furiously ruthless play. The idealist gets so upset that his thinking goes haywire, and he becomes so obsessed with the notion of the world being against him that he forgets how to use it as a psychological weapon. In sum, the pragmatist uses the siege mentality. The idealist simply lives in it.

    At bottom, I would suggest that is a serious fault that has plagued every single Wenger side where he has been responsible for their original purchase. Sometimes talent compensates, but on occasion where talent is developing or lacking, it becomes so glaring as to blind anyone with any knowledge of psychology.
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    Yup Hubert, couldn't agree more. Wenger's principles and shortcomings in certain areas will always prevent him dining at the table of the truly elite managers. We are of course comparing him to the greatest to have ever lived but nonetheless...
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    (Original post by TMDaines)
    It happens in every other invasion sport played on a large pitch all the time also. Union, League, American Football... take your pick.
    No it doesn't. American Football is reasonably officiated despite some rules being far more down to interpretation than in football. Union is far harder to officiate because a lot of infringements take place out of sight. So many referee's are inept and the vast majority of linesman have no interest in getting involved
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    (Original post by Hubert Poo)
    We were clearly deeply affected by the second concession. Where we differ fundamentally from teams like United and Chelsea is, imo, not necessarily technical - but in how we respond to concessions and points of contention. We tend to either kick our feet up in a strop and sit in the corner with our arms folded or, as we did tonight, let it get to us to such an extent whereby our flow is completely eliminated. Psychologically that is nothing new to deal with - champions however do deal with it. We can't, and as far as I'm concerned regardless of age there is no excuse for it. They have all this wonderful ability but truly idiotic naivety and a psychological weakness I have absolutely no respect for.

    I have no idea about Song currently. I'm too blinded by rage to comprehend. :mad:

    And personally I really think we should stop worrying about refs as much. We ****** up. The ref isn't going to give us much help anyway. Relying on them is pointless. If we deal with out own **** we don't have to be concerned. Every time we pass the buck nowadays I see this bunch of kids avoiding responsibility.
    Normally when I read your posts I disagree with you, but in this instance I agree with every word that you have written.

    I agree that Arsenal have a psychological problem and I think that these problems are very difficult to rectify. The manager can not control everything that happens on the pitch and I am sure that the players have been well instructed, so I can only assume that they have either a lack of fitness or work ethic or both.

    Watching Fabianski this game, I think he has the potential to become a very good keeper if he can get over his nerves. He made a few good saves today, but you would never be able to guess that reading the way the match has been reported. His inexperience played a part in allowing Porto to get their second goal. With experience he should lose his nerves, improve his decision making and reach his potential.

    One of the positives that I can take out of this game is that it is highly unlikely that Fabianski will ever make the same mistakes again since he will be scarred for life.
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    (Original post by _Ravi_)

    One of the positives that I can take out of this game is that it is highly unlikely that Fabianski will ever make the same mistakes again. Scarred for life.
    i thought i would be saying the same after that fa cup semi last year
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    (Original post by Economist)
    No it doesn't. American Football is reasonably officiated despite some rules being far more down to interpretation than in football. Union is far harder to officiate because a lot of infringements take place out of sight. So many referee's are inept and the vast majority of linesman have no interest in getting involved
    In your opinion. You'll find the exact same *****ing and moaning about officiating in American Football as you will here in football. The officials were openly ****ged off for their performance in Vikings v Saints. Even the NFL themselves felt obliged to point out serious errors were made.
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    Fabianski always has the same problem. His game is always affected by his first 10 minutes. If he keeps a clean sheet for the first 10, he normally keeps one for the whole game. If he concedes in the first 10 he starts making errors under the pressure of it all.
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    (Original post by _Ravi_)
    One of the positives that I can take out of this game is that it is highly unlikely that Fabianski will ever make the same mistakes again. Scarred for life.
    He cost us in the FA Cup Semi-Final against Chelsea last season and he's messed up other times as well. It's clear that at the moment he isn't good enough, maybe he should be loaned out and Wenger needs to bring in a top goalkeeper in the summer.
 
 
 
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