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Why is communism not as socially stigmatised as fascism? Watch

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    In answer to the title of the thread my answer is this:

    Communism, when practised exactly as suggested in the manifesto, when there is a withering of the state and a classless society, it seems to paint almost zombie like atmosphere, where there is a consensus of opinion with no chance for diversity, working for the greater good of the communal brotherhood just to get by in life.

    Facism, on the other hand, doesn't seem too determenistic as to what happens to the plebs since they are at the almost complete discression of the ruler, so not much can be argued as a dictatorship may bring good things to a nation.

    In essence, today all political ideologies are taken for granted and abused in a sence as mentioned by Dilkington somewhere above. In this age of modernity, or arguable post modernity, any theory stemming from either of the extreme ends of the political spectrum is frowned upon in general.

    Because of the effects of the cold war, people feel that the 'zombie dream' of communial brotherhood is closer than we think where as fascist regimes in the past 60 years or so seem to have crumbled fairly quickly and the idea that an indipendent authoritarian ruler can remain in power seems pretty idealistic.
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    OP, I think it's arbitrary.
    In the United States, Communism is hated and feared, mainly because of America's society being fundamentally based on individual ownership. North of the border, in Canada, we're a bit more politically lukewarm. You can see examples of this in textbooks, throughout history (eg. the red scare / mccarthyism etc. ) as well as people's atitudes.
    It all comes back to Turner's Thesis and the fronteir....
    Interesting stuff.
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    (Original post by Flipsta)
    In answer to the title of the thread my answer is this:

    Communism, when practised exactly as suggested in the manifesto, when there is a withering of the state and a classless society, it seems to paint almost zombie like atmosphere, where there is a consensus of opinion with no chance for diversity, working for the greater good of the communal brotherhood just to get by in life.
    Read some actually communist theory and literature. You will find that they advocate communism to allow man to express his fullest desires of creativity and development. The Maoist uniformity and "zombie like" grey clones really has very little to do with almost the entirety of communist literature.
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    It also happened after the Spartacus uprising and throughout the Weimar period. The Communists and the Nazis were both instrumental in bring down the Weimar republic. At the end, only really the Catholic Centre party and the Social Democrats still supported the republic.
    Which is interesting as the SPD were a marxist party.
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    (Original post by Prussianking666)
    Which is interesting as the SPD were a marxist party.
    Yup, but party focused more on parliamentary reform rather than extra-parliamentary agitation and revolution. The KPD also HATED the SPD for their use of the Freikorps to crush the Spartacist uprising of 1918-1919 and the murder of Rosa Luxembourg and Karl Liebknecht.
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    (Original post by Prussianking666)
    Which is interesting as the SPD were a marxist party.
    Well, they moved to a more social democratic view of Marxism, while the KPD were hardline Marxist-Leninists.
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    Well, they moved to a more social democratic view of Marxism, while the KPD were hardline Marxist-Leninists.
    Nah don't belive that. The SPD didn't renounce marxism and embrace social democrcay until the 1960's. The SPD were marxists, they were just not controlled by commitern unlike the KPD.
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    (Original post by Prussianking666)
    Nah don't belive that. The SPD didn't renounce marxism and embrace social democrcay until the 1960's. The SPD were marxists, they were just not controlled by commitern unlike the KPD.
    Social democracy is not inconsistent with Marxism (Engels having worked rather closely with the SPD in the latter years of his life for instance). While you're correct to say the SPD didn't renounce Marxism until the 1960s (Well, 1959 if we're going to be accurate - and nitty hehe). The SPD in the Weimar years were Marxist social democrats, in that they sought to change the capitalist system primarily through forming a mass parliamentary party to effect change and reform capitalism towards socialism with that power. They weren't as close to the centre as what we would call social democratic parties now, but it is still very accurate to call them a social democratic party, especially when compared to the more insurrectionist and violently revolutionary KPD (and it's various splinter groups).
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    (Original post by Mr_K_Dilkington)
    Read some actually communist theory and literature. You will find that they advocate communism to allow man to express his fullest desires of creativity and development. The Maoist uniformity and "zombie like" grey clones really has very little to do with almost the entirety of communist literature.
    This is just my opinion, I haven't read enough literature on neither side of the political spectrum so I can't come to a comprehensive conclusion.

    As I said, the main reason why communism has more of a stigma is because of the cold war, the rise of the soviet union, the assocations with communism and the unions of the 70's in almost bringing down the Heath Govts- then Arthur Scargill in the 80s. Also possibly partly due to the fact that the (possible capitalists)media are trying to numb any radical thought by limiting the print in the media (As Murdoch did to the unions in the 80s). The truth is, there isn't enough of a fascist momentum today to truely bring up public discontent upon the matter.
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    (Original post by Flipsta)
    As I said, the main reason why communism has more of a stigma is because of the cold war, the rise of the soviet union, the assocations with communism and the unions of the 70's in almost bringing down the Heath Govts- then Arthur Scargill in the 80s. Also possibly partly due to the fact that the (possible capitalists)media are trying to numb any radical thought by limiting the print in the media (As Murdoch did to the unions in the 80s). The truth is, there isn't enough of a fascist momentum today to truely bring up public discontent upon the matter.
    This is all true, but you have the thread the wrong way round. The question is why is fascism more reviled than communism, not why is communism more reviled than fascism.
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    I concur. I have been owned.

    Then on a personal note, I think Communism is more stigmatised than facism
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    (Original post by Mr_K_Dilkington)
    Yup, but party focused more on parliamentary reform rather than extra-parliamentary agitation and revolution. The KPD also HATED the SPD for their use of the Freikorps to crush the Spartacist uprising of 1918-1919 and the murder of Rosa Luxembourg and Karl Liebknecht.
    And that was a shocking move indeed - it's not a wonder that the SPD became so untrusted, amongst leftist groups in Germany. They were seen as, and in some aspects quite fairly, having betrayed the German cause, in order to appease right-wing factions.
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    (Original post by Flipsta)
    I concur. I have been owned.

    Then on a personal note, I think Communism is more stigmatised than facism
    Which is completely untrue.
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    I never said Nazi Germany was communist? When did I say that?

    'An authoritarian state is not necessarily a fascist state'. I'm aware of that, but lets be specific here. What wasn't facist about the USSR?

    You're applying social principals to an economic infrastructure by stating communism is intrinsically authoritarian. But now we're just nitpicking with definitions now.

    To answer the OP, the communist state of the USSR WAS fascist. The fascist nature of Nazi Germany being so bold as to wage war and kill 3,000,000 jews is why fascism in that sense is so strongly stigmatised.
    I wasn't trying to suggest you thought Nazi Germany was communist - clearly they were not. I was trying to explain that authoritarianism is possible without fascism - something you accept.
    Neither do I think communism is necessarily authoritarian, although it nearly always is it seems.
    So if the Soviet Union can be authoritarian without that necessarily making them fascist, what makes them fascists?
    Fascism is generally not associated with hard left wing economics.

    Someone else has already explained enough why the USSR was not fascistic better than I am able to right now-
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    (Original post by Don_Scott)
    Which is completely untrue.
    As is your statement.

    My personal opinion is that Communism seems to be far more stigmatised than facism, then again that isn't valid seeing as its a personal opinion.

    In today's world facism as well as communism is far more diffucut to achieve in this more globalised and therefor, internationalised culture of social democratic politics. The view that facism is stigmatised moreso than communism to me seems an incorrect judgement. It would be more correct to say that they are equally stigmatised by the media, politicians and other ruling elite of the centre ground in the political spectrum as not many are politically conscious, therefore ordinary people will be just as frightened of both schools of thought based on the judgements on past historical events.
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    If this is a direct comparison between Nazism and Stalinism, the main difference is the timescale, the genocide was carried out far quicker in Nazi Germany, even if the numbers were tenfold greater in Stalin's USSR.
    I think one of the other factors would be that both China and Russia seem very distant culturally to the UK, whilst Germany has a very similar history to the UK. Consequently the imagery really hits home, it shows how easily such a thing can happen. Another factor is the way that the politician's came to power, Mao and Stalin came to power through violent revolution, but Hitler came to power through peaceful democracy, okay there were some scuffles and yes he was imprisoned beforehand, but the point is he was elected. It seems very unlikely that we'd have a revolution in our country, as a people we just aren't conducive to being so impassioned, therefore electing a fascist is the more realistic concern.
    I think this is probably a large part of the reason that Nazism is more taboo than Maoism and Stalinism, because it was carried out in a very similar environment, the other two were carried out in more distant cultures.
    I certainly do believe that it's taboo status is disproportianate, and this isn't too say that it's not as bad as it's portrayed, but that Mao and Stalin's regime's were far worse than they are portrayed, but I guess it's a political belief that the lesson of Nazi Germany is more relevant to the future members of our society. Fair enough I say.
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    Communist ideology has led to millions of the deaths, and some of the most the most brutal and inhuman regimes the earth has ever seen. It was an utter disaster and succeeded no where. So yes it does amaze me when I walk into uni and see the Trotskyists of the SWP with their stall outside - why aren't people objecting to this?

    The reason is of course that ultimately whilst the 'hard' elements of Left-wing ideology lost the argument - the soft form of social Marxism won, and came to us through the Frankfurt school. Look at all the senior Labour figures, half of them were and members of various communist associations as students.

    That is why it is not as stigmatized.
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    (Original post by Lust of a Gardener)
    In America, Communism is just as despised as Facism.
    Communism is exponentially more despised than facism.
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    (Original post by Made in the USA)
    Communism is exponentially more despised than facism.
    In the USA, yes. Communism (in the form of Soviet Russia) was the great fear, and from McCarthy onwards red-baiting and fearmongering were the name of the game. The fact that the Soviet Union put the USA at direct risk of annihilation courtesy of thousands of nuclear bombs certainly didn't help matters.

    Fascism (especially in the form of the Nazis), meanwhile, wasn't considered much of a problem in the US until Pearl Harbour and the subsequent entry into the war with Germany. The real horrors of Nazi Germany hit home far more over here in Europe - from the Blitz to the liberation of the death camps.
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    Fascism is not an ideology per se, rather a set of populist sentences gathered together in a 'manifesto' (see Mussolini). It is a ******* mix of capitalism, socialism and xenophobia mixed together to try to appeal to large swathes of a country in times of trouble.
    Communism on the other hand is an ideology (which predates 1917) and which has argued for such issues such as equal rights for men and women and workers rights before such rights became an issue.
 
 
 
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