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    (Original post by Jose1989)
    Calm down. I was agreeing with you, as well as adding something separate that I thought.
    where was I not calm?
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    I've explain the origins of the word .
    And that is also very relevant to the rest of your post.
    I guess that's the difference between me and you. You look at what feminists claim they stand for, I judge them by their actions - which clearly show they have done nothing for men and never will.
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    (Original post by Libtolu)
    Are you a ******* idiot. what do you want Magazines with audio?

    Women and men have equal rights, tell me what rights women don't have, enlighten me.

    And their own identity? Who can take that away. Even slaves had their own identities you can't steal someones identity. Unless you are living in pakistan or 17 century i don't see anyone being opressed because of gender in this country.


    And an important point that i must make but hope you will answer the rest of my post as well is Women and ~Men ARE sex objects to each other, they are not ONLY sex objects/peoples and pretty much anyone above retard level iq knows that but women view men in a sexual way and men do the same to women i see nothing demoralising or dangerous in this.

    A girl being naked doesn't dehumanize her in any way and if anyone does get this mindframe from reading lads mags i suggest they see a psche because they ahve serious mental problems already.
    Sentence in bold: oh wow, you must be a real retard to take the phrase "seen not heard" literally. :rolleyes:
    Plenty of sociologists, not just feminists, agree that lad mags portray women as sex objects, and you can't just call everybody that agrees with this a retard, because in many ways it is true.
    Men, on the other hand, are NOT sex objects to women- look at gossip magazines and you will rarely find a picture of a naked man inside. That says something about what attitudes women are expected to have towards sex- passive and submissive.

    I'm not trying to deny that things have changed since the 50's, but there are still lots of barriers women have to face that men don't, double standards is one of many examples.
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    the only fundamental differences in men and women are their sexual organs.
    Give the woman a medal.
    /thread
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I guess that's the difference between me and you. You look at what feminists claim they stand for, I judge them by their actions - which clearly show they have done nothing for men and never will.
    I look at the concept.
    You look at actions and talk about supposed feminists.
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    You are still associating western values with the values of "humanity", that is prime arrogance.

    It seems you simply cannot comprehend the fact that your way of thinking does not necessarily equal to what is true and just, you have a long way to go my dear :no:
    Oh really? And what is "true and just" to you? Because I'm pretty sure prohibiting women from having bank accounts, from driving and just normal everyday life experiences isnt true and just. And I dont think cutting off the clitorises so women dont feel any pleasure from sex is true and just either.
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    (Original post by hay.hay)
    I get what you are saying, but most people who are using the jokes do not mean them in a malicious way. It's just people taking the p!ss. You can tell when someone is being genuinely sexist and when they are just winding you up. That's the point I was making. It's the same as me winding up my Welsh friend for being Welsh, as she does me for being scouse. The jokes may have come from something that wasn't originially for entertainment, but we don't mean it in that way.

    I was just saying that whilst this girl may not find anything wrong with this type of behaviour, which tbh most girls wouldn't take seriously, it is a lot different from being actually discriminated against for being female.

    Does that make sense?

    It does make sense, and I do understand that people who say sexist jokes mostly don't mean it in a nasty way.

    HOWEVER...in some cases can still be thought of as subliminal discrimination- a much more discreet way of socialising people into accepting their different gender roles. Sexism to a large degree is illegal, so people resort to jokes.

    I also find it quite ironic that most people here would not tolerate a racist joke, whereas sexist jokes seem to be well recieved.
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    Plenty of sociologists, not just feminists, agree that lad mags portray women as sex objects, and you can't just call everybody that agrees with this a retard, because in many ways it is true.
    Men, on the other hand, are NOT sex objects to women- look at gossip magazines and you will rarely find a picture of a naked man inside. That says something about what attitudes women are expected to have towards sex- passive and submissive.

    I'm not trying to deny that things haven't changed since the 50's, but there are still lots of barriers women have to face that men don't, double standards is one of many examples.

    I totally and utterly agree with you.
    You just have to open a media textbook, and the words 'male gaze' fall into your lap. It's pretty much widely understood by theorists that an alternative to the 'male gaze' does not yet exist fully yet. Google it
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    I look at the concept.
    You look at actions and talk about supposed feminists.
    The concept even has 'femi' in the name. If it was for both sexes it would have a different name. I dunno who these magical feminists who campaign for both sides are? Because the only ones I see, and who have an effect on my life, are ones like Harriet Whoreman - who clearly only care about women. You keep dodging answering whether or not you can think of anything feminists have done for men, if they haven't done anything and there is something to do clearly they are not for both sexes.
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    (Original post by nolongerhearthemusic)
    The "kitchen" thing is so overused, at least try to be original. At the very least you can think of another stereotype, there are loads.

    Also, lol @ female misogynists. Yeah you are so unique and special, no one's ever thought of that before. Maybe if you declare it enough the misogynist men will let you be an honorary man, I mean you're not like the other girls 'cause you ~prefer the company of men~ and think ~most women are *****es~. We are in awe of you, truly.
    Completely this. I think I might rep you.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    The concept even has 'femi' in the name. If it was for both sexes it would have a different name. I dunno who these magical feminists who campaign for both sides are? Because the only ones I see, and who have an effect on my life, are ones like Harriet Whoreman - who clearly only care about women. You keep dodging answering whether or not you can think of anything feminists have done for men, if they haven't done anything and there is something to do clearly they are not for both sexes.
    Not only have I answered all of this, you're ignoring my posts, so I'm not longer going to reply to your posts that cause me to:
    :facepalm:
    And invite you to read our posts from the start.
    I'm bored of you ignoring what I've said and restating the same thing without talking about my counter.
    Have a nice day.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    The concept even has 'femi' in the name. If it was for both sexes it would have a different name. I dunno who these magical feminists who campaign for both sides are? Because the only ones I see, and who have an effect on my life, are ones like Harriet Whoreman - who clearly only care about women. You keep dodging answering whether or not you can think of anything feminists have done for men, if they haven't done anything and there is something to do clearly they are not for both sexes.
    That's because when feminism emerged, women were oppressed and men were the oppressors, so the main aim was obviously to liberate women from this oppression. In their eyes society is patriarchical, so why would men need any help from them, assuming they would be prepared to accept it?
    Nowadays feminists act on behalf of everyone for equal rights. They want men and women to be EQUAL, they never said that women should be superior, as you seem to think.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Not only have I answered all of this, you're ignoring my posts, so I'm not longer going to reply to your posts that cause me to:

    And invite you to read our posts from the start.
    I'm bored of you ignoring what I've said and restating the same thing without talking about my counter.
    Have a nice day.
    I am repeating myself too. Actions speak louder than words, and although I can come up with hundreds of different things feminists have done for women not one comes to mind when I think about what they have done for men. This leads me to believe they are only out for women. I don't disagree that feminism was needed, but now we need mutual co-operation. You are extremely naiive in your interpretation of what constitutes a feminist. Here are the top 4 definitions of feminism on the web:
    Definitions of feminism on the Web:
    • a doctrine that advocates equal rights for women
      wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
    • Feminism is an intellectual, philosophical and political discourse aimed at equal rights and legal protection for women. ...
      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism
    • A social theory or political movement supporting the equality of both sexes in all aspects of public and private life; specifically, a theory or movement that argues that legal and social restrictions on females must be removed in order to bring about such equality
      en.wiktionary.org/wiki/feminism
    • feminist - a supporter of feminism
    • feminist - of or relating to or advocating equal rights for women; "feminist critique"
    It looks to me like they are only concerned with advocating womens rights - nothing to do with men.
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    (Original post by devotchka_)
    I totally and utterly agree with you.
    You just have to open a media textbook, and the words 'male gaze' fall into your lap. It's pretty much widely understood by theorists that an alternative to the 'male gaze' does not yet exist fully yet. Google it
    I googled it and found this, I think everyone should read it, especially those who disagree about women in lad mags being portrayed as sex objects:

    http://www.ltcconline.net/lukas/gender/pages/gaze.htm
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I am repeating myself too. Actions speak louder than words, and although I can come up with hundreds of different things feminists have done for women not one comes to mind when I think about what they have done for men. This leads me to believe they are only out for women. I don't disagree that feminism was needed, but now we need mutual co-operation. You are extremely naiive in your interpretation of what constitutes a feminist. Here are the top 4 definitions of feminism on the web:
    Definitions of feminism on the Web:
    • a doctrine that advocates equal rights for women
      wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
    • Feminism is an intellectual, philosophical and political discourse aimed at equal rights and legal protection for women. ...
      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism
    • A social theory or political movement supporting the equality of both sexes in all aspects of public and private life; specifically, a theory or movement that argues that legal and social restrictions on females must be removed in order to bring about such equality
      en.wiktionary.org/wiki/feminism
    • feminist - a supporter of feminism
    • feminist - of or relating to or advocating equal rights for women; "feminist critique"
    It looks to me like they are only concerned with advocating womens rights - nothing to do with men.
    Equal to what? Obviously to men. They can't be more equal otherwise it would be equal. Hence it's the equality of males and females by definition, thank you for helping my point out.
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    That's because when feminism emerged, women were oppressed and men were the oppressors, so the main aim was obviously to liberate women from this oppression. In their eyes society is patriarchical, so why would men need any help from them, assuming they would be prepared to accept it?
    Nowadays feminists act on behalf of everyone for equal rights. They want men and women to be EQUAL, they never said that women should be superior, as you seem to think.
    Men did not need representation before, but they do now. They are over powered by the feminist ideology that is espoused from the top to the bottom of government, and is taught in all schools across the country. Feminists do not act on behalf of everyone, I have no idea where you got that idea from. Feminists, if anything, stand in the way of men getting equal rights in areas such as family law. The fact they are bringing womens inequalities up to equal, and stopping men from equalling their inequalities, means they are priveledging women in Western society. Feminism, never has and never will do anything for men.
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    Mmm sounds like you really 'love' women huh.
    Yep, but only feminine ones. I don't like women who act like men It's not becoming.

    (Original post by O-Ren)
    Only a misogynist thinks all women are boring. It's like saying all people with red hair are boring or all people with blue eyes are boring.
    haha, do you not think that one's gender is a little more important than hair/eye colour when it comes to determining their behaviour? Whether it's inherent or learned, women and men act VERY differently - come on!


    (Original post by O-Ren)
    Women are as varied and unique as men.
    Yes I don't know if I ever said "all" or not, but come on let's not waste time with the old "OMG not EVERY _ _ _ _ _ is _ _ _ _ _!!!!!!". We're talking about trends and what's common. E.g. Men are normally more aggressive (in all senses) than women. Agree? Of course you do. There are some women who are more aggressive than some men, but that's not important.

    (Original post by O-Ren)
    If you disagree it's because of your prejudices blinding you, or because you are so mindless yourself that women who are interesting avoid you.
    Macho women avoid me, feminine women adore me.

    (Original post by O-Ren)
    And if you don't think comparing women to cats is horrific you really are detached. Comparing women to animals is actually very common amongst misogynists. Often rapists when they are beating the woman tell her she is little better than a dog.
    Why is it horrific or even a bad thing to do at all? Women and cats have many similarities, I think. Comparing and contrasting humans with animals is something that's been going on since the dawn of time, and I have no problem with it. I've been compared to wide range of different animals and I don't object. Being like a cat sounds pretty complimentary, tbh.



    (Original post by O-Ren)
    High spatial ability is more common in men than women, and high language ability is more common in women than men. MORE COMMON. This does not mean that only women are good at learning languages, or that only men are good at maths. This is why the only fundamental differences in men and women are their sexual organs.
    yes, omg, leave it out!

    Do you feel that those are the only two inherent congitive differences between a man and a woman?

    If you raised 1000 girls as though they were boys, and 1000 boys as though they were girls, do you think that they would be indistinguishable from comparison groups of genetic boys/girls apart from their spatial and language abilities?





    (Original post by O-Ren)
    The point is in the past there were women who wanted careers but weren't allowed them because people though 'women should be women' and stay in the home. If a woman wants to stay in the home she is being true to herself and that's fine.
    Fine by me.

    (Original post by O-Ren)
    However, if someone wants to have a career that does not make them 'manly'. If someone wants to cook and spend a lot of time with their kids it does not make them 'womanly'.
    I wonder, what, if any, charactersists/traits/lifestyles do you think warrant a description as either masculine or feminine (or similar terms)? Do you think those terms have any legitimate uses?
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    I googled it and found this, I think everyone should read it, especially those who disagree about women in lad mags being portrayed as sex objects:

    http://www.ltcconline.net/lukas/gender/pages/gaze.htm
    Let's get married and save the world from patriarchal oppression! :yes:
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Equal to what? Obviously to men. They can't be more equal otherwise it would be equal. Hence it's the equality of males and females by definition, thank you for helping my point out.
    You are entirely misunderstanding my point. Yes, they only want to bring women upto the standards of men in the areas they are behind. However, in areas men are behind they do nothing - they even stand in the way of things being said or done. If just one side is represented then inequalities always increase for the otherside, and whereas womens lives have gotten better and better mens have taken a step back, with their issues on the back burner. All you need to do is compare breast cancer treatment with prostate cancer treatment and you will see this.
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    I also find it quite ironic that most people here would not tolerate a racist joke, whereas sexist jokes seem to be well recieved.
    I'm as "racist" as I am "sexist" - any jokes like that are hilarious imo. I love differences between people; gender, race, religion, sexuality. It's all good. We're not the same, and that's great.
 
 
 
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