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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    The femi comes from the fact women did need to be specifically represented in order to gain ground quickly because they were so far behind. It has stayed because idiots won't let go. Now it seems to exist to try and punish men for womens biology.
    That's an issue with idiots not with the concept of feminism.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I never said men have the right to touch or do anything to them. But looking is not a crime, as you seem to imply. Like I said, everyone would look at me if I walked down the street naked, does that mean i'm being sexually harrassed? Or am I drawing attention?
    A man gazing at a woman in a sexual way is percieved as sexual harassment by the court, so yes, it is a crime.

    Women should not have to live with the fear that they might be gazed at by men if they dress provocatively- it's a human right.
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    You fill find nowadays that most husbands are happy to do their fair share of housework- therefore men ARE gaining ground in the house. If this is not true, then the only reason why some do not have ground in the house is because they don't want their role as breadwinners to be taken away from them.
    There will be groups that will focus more on the interests of some people than others, like feminists, and you will have to come to terms with that. Men's issues that have been ignored by feminists will be addressed and taken care of elsewhere, so you cannot complain. It's like saying that those promoting class equality do not focus enough on the needs of upper-class people.
    I'm not talking about housework. I'm talking about family rights after divorce. Women are still automatically allocated children on the presumption that is better for them, and a man will stand little chance of getting to see his children outside of weekends without clear evidence of mistreatment by the mother. If the mother wants to she can make up a whole barrage of lies and force the man into only seeing his children in a secure environment with someone looking over them.

    I wouldn't mind feminism existing if it didn't bar any opposing views or groups from existing or taking actions. There is a widespread idiotic view that men have this amazing position in society when the fact of the matter is they do half the work and get 1/10 of the appreciation for it. Even in the bible it is Mary who gets the credit, even those Joseph stuck around and cared for a child that wasn't even his. Mens issues quite simply aren't being addressed, and any attempt to do so is blocked by feminazis like Harman. If they are only campaigning for onside, and i'm not on that side, why should I do anything to help feminism? Why shouldn't I just do everything in my power to stand in their way, and make sure that I don't employ any women whatsoever?
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    (Original post by TShadow383)
    Inequality against men is currently enshrined in law - we retire later despite our reduced life expectancy, from the birth of our children we have less rights in their upbringing than the mother. Men are also expected to be breadwinners - working long hours to feed their families - the 12% wage gap is a byproduct of this pressure - since the average man works far more hours than the average woman, you would expect a difference in salary and career progression.


    You must be ******* joking!
    The girls in my sixth form took a stack of "gossip" mags (about 30 or so) and tore out all the pages containing topless or basically naked men. They wallpapered one wall of our common room.

    Ok, but MOST gossip magazines will not contain naked pictures of men, that's what I was getting at. :rolleyes: There might be one or two exceptions, but lad mags contain far more naked pictures than magazines designed for women.
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    A man gazing at a woman in a sexual way is percieved as sexual harassment by the court, so yes, it is a crime.

    Women should not have to live with the fear that they might be gazed at by men if they dress provocatively- it's a human right.
    How ridiculous. If they are so scared of being gazed at then they shouldn't dress provocatively. Anyone would think it was 'eye rape' or some crap like that. I guess men should just walk around looking at the floor lol.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I'm not talking about housework. I'm talking about family rights after divorce. Women are still automatically allocated children on the presumption that is better for them, and a man will stand little chance of getting to see his children outside of weekends without clear evidence of mistreatment by the mother. If the mother wants to she can make up a whole barrage of lies and force the man into only seeing his children in a secure environment with someone looking over them.

    I wouldn't mind feminism existing if it didn't bar any opposing views or groups from existing or taking actions. There is a widespread idiotic view that men have this amazing position in society when the fact of the matter is they do half the work and get 1/10 of the appreciation for it. Even in the bible it is Mary who gets the credit, even those Joseph stuck around and cared for a child that wasn't even his. Mens issues quite simply aren't being addressed, and any attempt to do so is blocked by feminazis like Harman. If they are only campaigning for onside, and i'm not on that side, why should I do anything to help feminism? Why shouldn't I just do everything in my power to stand in their way, and make sure that I don't employ any women whatsoever?

    Sentence in bold: I'm afraid that standing in their way isn't going to solve the problem. People will only hate you if you refuse to employ women, in fact you could be sent to jail as it is illegal to discriminate on the grounds of gender.

    You seem to get most of your assumptions from the media, women are not "automatically" given custody of the kids when they divorce their husbands. It may happen sometimes, but there is such a thing as a fair trial, believe it or not.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    How ridiculous. If they are so scared of being gazed at then they shouldn't dress provocatively. Anyone would think it was 'eye rape' or some crap like that. I guess men should just walk around looking at the floor lol.
    It is not ridiculous, you're just refusing to look beyond what's right in front of your nose. Narrow-minded is what you are.

    Why? Why shouldn't women have the freedom to wear whatever they want, without the threat of being sexually harassed by males? It's unacceptable whichever way you look at it.

    Oh, and to further contradict your point about females taking custody of the kids, here is a quote from the link i posted before:

    "Clearly, a woman can have more power over a man in certain situations, but the real issue is the prevalence of male power in this society, not a few cases of the contrary".

    There you are. Beat that.
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    (Original post by ciawhobat)
    There's a serious flaw with much feminist thinking, and it applies also to various **** about race and so on, too.

    If men and women are 'equal' and essentially indistinguishable from each other apart from their reproductive organs (as has been clearly proposed in this thread already), then any idea of complaining about the places of men and women in society and what they each acheive becomes completely meaningless, since why are you even recognising them as two different groups in the first place? If men and women are the same and should not be regarded differently, then what does it matter than 100 men take the 100 top jobs. It should be the same as if 100 women do, or if it's 50/50?

    It is immediately fallacious to call for 'equality' (meaning, normally, an enforced 50/50 share of wealth and lifestyles) between men and women on the grounds that they are inherently the same. Because, if they're the same, then what does it even matter? The discrimination then vanishes instantly.
    :haha:

    Mate you're as thick as ****.

    No one is saying men and women are the same. There are two genders. One has a ****. The other has breasts and a vagina and a uterus. Two genders. Just because there aren't any inherently male/female abilities or qualities doesn't mean there's no such thing as men and women.

    Thank you for reminding everyone that misogynists are of low intelligence
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    Ok, but MOST gossip magazines will not contain naked pictures of men, that's what I was getting at. :rolleyes: There might be one or two exceptions, but lad mags contain far more naked pictures than magazines designed for women.
    So all gossip magazines don't contain pictures of naked men, with the exception of cosmopolitan, hello, heat, ok etc

    To flip that around for you, not all mens magazines contain pictures of naked women :eek: Shocking ain't it?
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    (Original post by TShadow383)
    So all gossip magazines don't contain pictures of naked men, with the exception of cosmopolitan, hello, heat, ok etc

    To flip that around for you, not all mens magazines contain pictures of naked women :eek: Shocking ain't it?
    That's a bit thick.

    I said there are MORE naked pictures of women in lad mags than naked pictures of men in gossip mags. What part of that is so difficult for you to understand?
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    It is not ridiculous, you're just refusing to look beyond what's right in front of your nose. Narrow-minded is what you are.

    Why? Why shouldn't women have the freedom to wear whatever they want, without the threat of being sexually harassed by males? It's unacceptable whichever way you look at it.
    Are we really as a society so ashamed of our sexuality that we should avoid each other wherever possible?

    I get sexual looks from women, in clubs I get groped by women in a way I wouldn't dream of doing straight off-the-bat (if they do it first, fair game :p: )

    Is it always wanted? No. Do I childishly go around accusing women who find me attractive of sexual harrasment? No!
    Good god, if we're not allowed to look at each other how are we meant to begin relationships in the first place? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Michelin Man)
    You're my hero of the day! Can I marry you?

    Lol, yeah ok
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    That's a bit thick.

    I said there are MORE naked pictures of women in lad mags than naked pictures of men in gossip mags. What part of that is so difficult for you to understand?
    **** off and take your superiority complex elsewhere.
    Also, prove it. I'm not convinced.
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    :haha:

    Mate you're as thick as ****.

    No one is saying men and women are the same. There are two genders. One has a ****. The other has breasts and a vagina and a uterus. Two genders. Just because they aren't any inherently male/female abilities or qualities doesn't mean there's no such thing as men and women.

    Thank you for reminding everyone that misogynists are of low intelligence
    Prove it. I can find alot of evidence to the contrary.
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    Sentence in bold: I'm afraid that standing in their way isn't going to solve the problem. People will only hate you if you refuse to employ women, in fact you could be sent to jail as it is illegal to discriminate on the grounds of gender.

    You seem to get most of your assumptions from the media, women are not "automatically" given custody of the kids when they divorce their husbands. It may happen sometimes, but there is such a thing as a fair trial, believe it or not.
    When it comes down to it, women win the majority of child custody cases. When it was men who won the majority feminists stepped into action to do something about it, now the reverse is true.
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    (Original post by TShadow383)
    Are we really as a society so ashamed of our sexuality that we should avoid each other wherever possible?

    I get sexual looks from women, in clubs I get groped by women in a way I wouldn't dream of doing straight off-the-bat (if they do it first, fair game :p: )

    Is it always wanted? No. Do I childishly go around accusing women who find me attractive of sexual harrasment? No!
    Good god, if we're not allowed to look at each other how are we meant to begin relationships in the first place? :rolleyes:
    There is a main flaw in your argument: you're restricting the options. According to you, we can either gaze at women who dress provocatively in the most pervish manner possible, or we avoid them completely. You fail to see all the other options and all the other (more respectable) ways of approaching a woman.

    You may like women staring at you, but in most cases the "male gaze" is often unwanted attention the female has to put up with.
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    It is not ridiculous, you're just refusing to look beyond what's right in front of your nose. Narrow-minded is what you are.

    Why? Why shouldn't women have the freedom to wear whatever they want, without the threat of being sexually harassed by males? It's unacceptable whichever way you look at it.

    Oh, and to further contradict your point about females taking custody of the kids, here is a quote from the link i posted before:

    "Clearly, a woman can have more power over a man in certain situations, but the real issue is the prevalence of male power in this society, not a few cases of the contrary".

    There you are. Beat that.
    It is you who is taking the dislikes of a few - being looked at when dressing provocatively - and applying it universally to everyone. It's not like the women who enjoy being looked at are campaigning for men to look at every woman. If you don't like it, ignore it, it doesn't harm your life. There is no proof of any prevalence of male power in this society. They may well dominate the work place, but women dominate the raising of children, so they balance out. It isn't a case of a few cases to the contary - it is a universal rule that women get custody over children unless they are unfit.
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    (Original post by TShadow383)
    **** off and take your superiority complex elsewhere.
    Also, prove it. I'm not convinced.
    Nice one, telling me to **** off. :rolleyes:

    If you want proof, open your eyes and look around. Buy men and women's magazines and observe the difference.

    You have a lot to learn, buddy.
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    There is a main flaw in your argument: you're restricting the options. According to you, we can either gaze at women who dress provocatively in the most pervish manner possible, or we avoid them completely. You fail to see all the other options and all the other (more respectable) ways of approaching a woman.

    You may like women staring at you, but in most cases the "male gaze" is often unwanted attention the female has to put up with.
    If the male gaze is unwanted why do women dress the way they do? So men won't look at them?

    These arguments become so easy for critics of feminism to win beacuse feminists can never provide evidence or reasoning for their arguments, and in alot of cases reasoning and evidence goes against feminist reasoning.
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    :haha:

    Mate you're as thick as ****.

    No one is saying men and women are the same. There are two genders. One has a ****. The other has breasts and a vagina and a uterus. Two genders. Just because there aren't any inherently male/female abilities or qualities doesn't mean there's no such thing as men and women.
    So why, for example, must we strive to have equal numbers of cocks and vaginas in certain kinds of jobs, or whatever else? Why does it matter if there are more penised post graduated? And so on.
    If that's the only difference between men and women then why are you even considering them as important groupings from which we must have equal representation?

    It's as meaningful as ensuring an even distribution of hair and eye colours (to take your example from earlier).
 
 
 
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