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Anti-feminism and sexism! watch

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    (Original post by FormerlyHistoryStudent)
    Believe it or not most women dress for themselves, or maybe if they have boyfriends, for them too; not so that strangers can perve at them :rolleyes: Why should we be restricted in what we wear, just because of guys being unable to keep their eyes and comments to themselves? A lot of the time it happens even when you're in normal everyday clothes, let alone when you're having a night out!
    Why should we be restricted in what we wear, just because of guys being unable to keep their eyes and comments to themselves?

    Sorry who is restricting you from wearing something? Why does someone looking at you stop you wering something?
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    (Original post by TShadow383)
    http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/evidence
    ^please do provide.


    You have a pretty low opinion of men don't you? Women do exactly the same.


    I know what you're saying, but that doesn't mean numbers have to be equal - if more men or more women get a job because they're better qualified then that's absolutely fine.

    If there was some way to avoid the applicants sex appearing in an application that'd be perfect - but it wouldn't really work for interview :p:


    WRONG!

    http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=167

    Women get paid 12.2% less than men on average on an hourly basis - on average, men work more hours than women (and far more women work part-time) so you would expect that they would earn more - even on an hourly rate, as if you work longer hours you're more likely to move up in your company.



    Have experienced this too, men behaving in the same way would be arrested.



    Again:
    http://www.statistics.gov.uk/cci/nugget.asp?id=167

    I like how my source is national statistics and yours is the daily fail.

    Try reading the article rather than automatically dismissing it because it's from the Daily Mail. :rolleyes:

    A 12 per cent difference in pay is still significant. If that is true, i'm glad the pay gap has decreased, but it's still there nonetheless.

    Oh, and my source also comes from what i've learnt in my sociology lessons. If that isn't reliable, then I dont know what is.
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    (Original post by FormerlyHistoryStudent)
    Believe it or not most women dress for themselves, or maybe if they have boyfriends, for them too; not so that strangers can perve at them :rolleyes: Why should we be restricted in what we wear, just because of guys being unable to keep their eyes and comments to themselves? A lot of the time it happens even when you're in normal everyday clothes, let alone when you're having a night out!
    Hmm, I believe though that there is a huge difference between appeciating the female form and just plain perving as a lot of things are subconcious and out of peoples control i.e if you see a girl you like.

    However I dont really think anyone should be restricted in what they have to wear but anyone male or female DOES dress in order to get some form of satisfaction, i.e someone mentions how they have their own fashion sense but the whole point is putting some form of attention on them, if someone didnt care what others thought they wore they would wear rags, the whole thing about dressing to feel good is because it makes you feel good to look good and others to think you look good.

    The one thing I dont understand though, likely being male is I constantly hear everytime a feminist subject comes up is that girls mention they get constant attention and comments from males in the street and I have rarely seen this, be it a busy or quiet town I dont hear men whistling at every woman they see or eyeing them up.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    I am repeating myself too. Actions speak louder than words, and although I can come up with hundreds of different things feminists have done for women not one comes to mind when I think about what they have done for men. This leads me to believe they are only out for women. I don't disagree that feminism was needed, but now we need mutual co-operation. You are extremely naiive in your interpretation of what constitutes a feminist. Here are the top 4 definitions of feminism on the web:
    Definitions of feminism on the Web:
    • a doctrine that advocates equal rights for women
      wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn
    • Feminism is an intellectual, philosophical and political discourse aimed at equal rights and legal protection for women. ...
      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism
    • A social theory or political movement supporting the equality of both sexes in all aspects of public and private life; specifically, a theory or movement that argues that legal and social restrictions on females must be removed in order to bring about such equality
      en.wiktionary.org/wiki/feminism
    • feminist - a supporter of feminism
    • feminist - of or relating to or advocating equal rights for women; "feminist critique"
    It looks to me like they are only concerned with advocating womens rights - nothing to do with men.
    Feminism is going to be about advocating women's rights, simply because historically, women were the oppressed gender.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    where was I not calm?
    :confused:

    You said "At no point did I say you couldn't be feminist and enjoy a sexist joke?" as if I was suggesting otherwise, when I wasn't. So it seemed as if you were a being a bit defensive for no reason seeing as I was agreeing with you!

    "I was merely labelling what feminism was by definition." is what you said, which is what I agreed with and then added my own comment, hence the "exactly".
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    (Original post by Seven_Three)
    Why should we be restricted in what we wear, just because of guys being unable to keep their eyes and comments to themselves?

    Sorry who is restricting you from wearing something? Why does someone looking at you stop you wering something?
    er because most women don't like pervy guys staring at them?
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    You sound like a broken disk, you've already said this twenty times before.

    You point out all the reasons why women's output is less but you fail to understand that barriers like childcare, travelling less etc are all mostly due to the socialisation into subordinate positions which women have to endure.
    Then they should apply for better jobs!

    My parents company (they're a pharmaceutical regulations consultancy) recently had to advertise for two positions, one looking for an expert on pharmaceutical law to work full-time, pay of £86000, one looking for a part-time secretary, pay of £17950.

    Almost 90% of the applicants for the high paying job were male.
    Almost 85% of the applicants for the lower paying job were female.

    If you don't put yourself forward you won't get ahead.
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    (Original post by alicealice)
    okay thanks

    and yay! Someone else who doesn't think that I'm insane or a retard! :cool:
    I just laughed out loud in an empty house.

    I think you insane AND a retard. Also....



    I think its to keep?
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    (Original post by TShadow383)
    Then they should apply for better jobs!

    My parents company (they're a pharmaceutical regulations consultancy) recently had to advertise for two positions, one looking for an expert on pharmaceutical law to work full-time, pay of £86000, one looking for a part-time secretary, pay of £17950.

    Almost 90% of the applicants for the high paying job were male.
    Almost 85% of the applicants for the lower paying job were female.

    If you don't put yourself forward you won't get ahead.
    True, I like working in retail and call centres or admin and when I go I see pretty much 90% if not more female employees, and whenever say a new position comes up in the company another female member of staff is hired.
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    (Original post by devotchka_)
    Yeah huh, all the big wigs are usually male.
    Just because you can't change it asap, doesn't mean you should stop fighting for it. The more people that are aware of the prejudices that exist, the faster change will happen.
    Not neccesarily because what is being demonised is the women getting drunk and making utter fools out of themselves, the majority of society (many women included) sees this as more of a problem than men falling out of clubs etc so if the majority of society want this behaviour discouraged then it makes sense to keep printing it whether it be fair or not.

    I'm in two minds of it, on one hand seeing girls off their face is disturbing and reckless but on the other hand drunk people are fun so....


    Either way the media tends to represent the views of the readers and it seems that most people felt that women getting wasted was worse than men doing it before the media started to demonise it, not equal but then again men and women are different and society as do fellow human beings realise the differences and thus impose different standards upon the different genders.

    Right or wrong is a matter of opinion.

    Also what do you think about the dual fitness standards for the military, police etc women don't have to be aa fit as men do you think this is fair in your opinion?
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    (Original post by TShadow383)
    Then they should apply for better jobs!

    My parents company (they're a pharmaceutical regulations consultancy) recently had to advertise for two positions, one looking for an expert on pharmaceutical law to work full-time, pay of £86000, one looking for a part-time secretary, pay of £17950.

    Almost 90% of the applicants for the high paying job were male.
    Almost 85% of the applicants for the lower paying job were female.

    If you don't put yourself forward you won't get ahead.
    :facepalm:

    talk to me again when you know a little more about sociological issues. you've completely ignored what I said about women being socialised into certain roles in the workplace.
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    (Original post by bananaslug77)
    Lol, yeah ok
    Wicked that's my life sorted! :rolleyes:

    You don't happen to support Arsenal as well do you? If you did I think I might be overcome by a fit of uncontrolable excitement!
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    Here we go again. There are qualities and abilities found more often in women than men, and more often in men than women.

    There are no qualities found in all women and no men, and all men and no women.

    Or are you going to deny this? Are you going to try and say there's never been an aggressive female? Or a male who's good at comforting a distressed child?

    :haha:
    You aren't answering my question. You said there were no 'inherently male/female abilities or qualities', and I asked you to prove it. This doesn't prove anything.

    There are no statistics dealing with pay inequality in this article.
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    Of course it makes sense. Unemployment due to positive discrimination against men would lead to a downfall in the economy, hence why it doesn't exist.

    "Women's companies fail far more than mens"- yet another meaningless anectode.
    Don't be so ridiculous. If women were cheaper organisations would just employ them regardless of the effect on the wider economy. It isn't anecdotal, it is based on actual evidence:
    Previous research has found that female-owned businesses generally underperform male-owned businesses on a variety of measures such as revenue, profit, growth, and discontinuance (failure) rates.
    http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst;jsessionid=L0W QD4snBTkk1XqSB3fgkL5MdlJnG1yhJRM pLzy4hK2PvyhwgVRJ!-602857173!2130031767?docId=50020 07295
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    Try reading the article rather than automatically dismissing it because it's from the Daily Mail. :rolleyes:

    A 12 per cent difference in pay is still significant. If that is true, i'm glad the pay gap has decreased, but it's still there nonetheless.

    Oh, and my source also comes from what i've learnt in my sociology lessons. If that isn't reliable, then I dont know what is.
    The daily fail article is flat out WRONG.

    An official report out today puts the gender pay gap at 22.6 per cent, worse than in 2007 when women were paid 21.9 per cent less per hour than men.
    If you actually look at the national statistics website, that's not per hour at all, that's the overall annual salary, if you look at it for women and men working full-time, the statistic shrinks from 22.6% to 12.6%
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    er because most women don't like pervy guys staring at them?
    So? Doesn't stop you doing anything. And how do you know most women don't like it? Have you questioned most women? Most women I know like to be seen as attractive.
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    (Original post by Seven_Three)
    Why should we be restricted in what we wear, just because of guys being unable to keep their eyes and comments to themselves?

    Sorry who is restricting you from wearing something? Why does someone looking at you stop you wering something?
    Erm because a lot of women hate the comments and feel very uncomfortable when being openly perved at? I'm sure this is easily enough for many women to feel like they can't wear exactly what they like.

    EDIT: Plus, there's a bit of a difference between getting a few turned heads and admiring glances, and being ogled at and treated like a pair of walking breasts and nothing else....
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    (Original post by LoreleiLee)
    Do you vote? Are you on the pill? Would you ever even consider having an abortion? Do you want control of your body, your marriage and your job? No? Okay. Then go ahead and carry on hating feminism, and us crazy, ugly, moaning women will enjoy the rights other, better women have died to protect. (These are women you are calling 'a crazy bunch of ugly women who love to moan'). When you're willing to go under a horse for someone else's rights, I'll give your anti-feminism argument some serious consideration. Til then, nah.
    <3
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    (Original post by Mazzia)
    Feminism is going to be about advocating women's rights, simply because historically, women were the oppressed gender.
    I don't care why. I care that they are fighting against something using the same tactics as the thing they are fighting against - i.e. sexism. Favouring one sex over another will not make society a better equal place, it will make it more unequal than ever.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    Don't be so ridiculous. If women were cheaper organisations would just employ them regardless of the effect on the wider economy. It isn't anecdotal, it is based on actual evidence:
    Previous research has found that female-owned businesses generally underperform male-owned businesses on a variety of measures such as revenue, profit, growth, and discontinuance (failure) rates.
    http://www.questia.com/googleScholar.qst;jsessionid=L0W QD4snBTkk1XqSB3fgkL5MdlJnG1yhJRM pLzy4hK2PvyhwgVRJ!-602857173!2130031767?docId=50020 07295
    link fail.

    i'm not being ridiculous. you wouldn't just employ women on the basis that they were cheaper. and employers do need to take into consideration the effect on the wider economy, otherwise capitalism would just fail completely.
 
 
 
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