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    (Original post by Jose1989)
    exactly. There's extreme feminism and sexism as well. You can be a 'feminist' and believe in equality for women as well as enjoying a sexist joke. Let's be honest, sexist jokes aren't really sexist, they are poking fun at the idea of being sexist.
    At no point did I say you couldn't be feminist and enjoy a sexist joke?
    A joke is not serious, thus it doesn't have any effect on debate or definition. If it was serious then it would have an effect on that persons views.

    I was merely labelling what feminism was by definition.
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    (Original post by Antonia87)
    Rubbish. These women would disagree with you -

    Saudi Arabia

    http://www.metransparent.com/spip.ph...e=8564&lang=en - oh look, women campaigning for the right to drive.

    Only 1 country, in the rest they can drive

    Eqypt and Africa

    http://www.stop-killing.org/node/89 - campaign against female genital mutliation - 6000 women and girls mutilated every day.

    Its an un-Islamic practise, its just ignorance from villagers (doesn't happen in towns and cities)

    Middle East

    http://www.wluml.org/node/4722 - Arabic countries least advanced in matters of gender equality.

    That's according to western standards, Gender equality in western mentality means women trying to imitate men.

    Africa

    http://www.dw-world.de/dw/article/0,,5030008,00.html - campaigning for equal roles in politics.

    Africa has nothing to do with this.

    There is tons of this stuff to find. Please dont use the whole "media" argument - its a poor one.

    And western women are sluts are they?

    Yes, western women are sluts. Its pretty obvious if you had any morality missy.
    Again this only proves your prejudice and lack of knowledge about the Middle East. You do not understand and have no knowledge of what's going on. If you don't know what you are talking about I suggest you keep your blabbering mouth sealed.
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    I'd like that to be to true, but it's really not. At least not in my experience. Feminism has always felt like a bit of a pathetic stab back at men and then a bunch of freudian principals thrown into it. I used to be a feminist (yeah I'm a guy) because I thought it was about equality, but then I saw how feminists applied it and I was just like 'wtf'. If it was about equality, I imagine it would be called equalism....or something to that effect. :yes:
    They're not feminist if they're against equality. However the term is often mis-used.
    Feminism is about equality, people who claim to be feminist but are against equality from a male-female point of view are mis-using the word, sometimes intentionally to try to draw people to their cause.

    Once more:
    If it their beliefs aren't about equality between males and females, and discriminate against someone based merely on the fact that they are male or female, then it is not feminism.
    An example of a potential pit fall would be:
    Men should have the right to have an abortion. This would not be discriminative because men can't have an abortion, you can't have a right to something that you can't have (if men could have abortions but were denied them then there would be an issue).
    A similar case would be someone claiming women should have the right to castration, as women do not have testicles (I don't know about transsexuals, but I presume there's no implantation) then it would be nonsensical to talk about a woman's right to castration.

    Does that clear things up for you at all?
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    I hate this idea that women shouldn't be in the kitchen and should have this awesome career and everything - yeah it's OKAY if you are a woman and you prefer that, but personally I love cooking and cleaning. Piss off, I'm staying in my god damn kitchen!!!
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    Again this only proves your prejudice and lack of knowledge about the Middle East. You do not understand and have no knowledge of what's going on. If you don't know what you are talking about I suggest you keep your blabbering mouth sealed.
    Lol what do you mean its "Only 1 country"? It shouldnt be happening in any country.
    And I never brought Islam into it. And it doesnt matter if genital mutilation occurs out of ignorance, it shouldnt be happening at all. And no it has nothing to do with western standards - its human standards.

    You've just proven yourself to be a misogynistic pig. Well done.

    (p.s didnt you once say in a thread that men should be permitted to beat their wives if they're disobedient? I rest my case)
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    I agree, I don't think I can ever get a long with a self professed feminist.
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    I agree with you OP. I mean obviously I'm never being serious, I think women should be treated the same as men. But it is ******* hilarious being sexist/misogynistic around a feminist to watch her reaction.

    I got this response once: "oh my god, how dare you say that about women!? we are equal to you and should be treated the same! feminism has allowed this, and there's nothing you can do about it, you misogynistic pig!"

    L O L
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    (Original post by 9a3iqa)
    Again this only proves your prejudice and lack of knowledge about the Middle East. You do not understand and have no knowledge of what's going on. If you don't know what you are talking about I suggest you keep your blabbering mouth sealed.
    Precisely this.
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    (Original post by C.C.G)
    I agree with you OP. I mean obviously I'm never being serious, I think women should be treated the same as men. But it is ******* hilarious being sexist/misogynistic around a feminist to watch her reaction.

    I got this response once: "oh my god, how dare you say that about women!? we are equal to you and should be treated the same! feminism has allowed this, and there's nothing you can do about it, you misogynistic pig!"

    L O L
    Because every feminist reacts the same way, they're robots, and don't have different reactions to each other or different personalities. Furthermore all feminists are men :rolleyes: .
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    I agree, I don't think I can ever get a long with a self professed feminist.
    How does being self professed have anything to do with you getting along with someone.
    I'm a feminist, I believe men and women should be treated equally in the law and work place. However I am open to suggestions and arguments that contradict my beliefs here. If they re nonsensical or based on bigotry I'll probably just not pay attention to them. If they're based in a valid argument where the premises might be true, I'll probably look into them.

    What do you define as feminism?
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    (Original post by CrazyPyramid)
    Sorry but wtf?

    She is saying that more rapists should be convicted as clearly many are getting away with it, she isn't implying a rape conviction quota is necessary. If you think it's right that 6.5% of rape cases end in conviction then it follows that 93.5% of the people who claim they have been raped are malicious liars. I don't think that follows. The fact that the conviction rate is so low shows that many people are getting away with it. Do you really think 93.5% of those accused of rape and taken to court over it are not guilty?
    Do you have any particular cases in mind? Like I said, it's meaningless to talk about "rape" cases as a single entity.

    How is it "clear" that many rapists are getting away with it? Are you aware of some evidence that didn't make it into the courtroom? Roughly what proportion of rape cases should end in conviction, in your view, and on what are you basing that figure?

    Regardless of that, do you have some idea of "how" we can increase conviction rates? I can only think that we could water-down the definition of rape so that an increasing number of sexual encounters qualify as "rape". Is that what you're thinking of? I don't know
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    They're not feminist if they're against equality. However the term is often mis-used.
    Feminism is about equality, people who claim to be feminist but are against equality from a male-female point of view are mis-using the word, sometimes intentionally to try to draw people to their cause.

    Once more:
    If it their beliefs aren't about equality between males and females, and discriminate against someone based merely on the fact that they are male or female, then it is not feminism.
    An example of a potential pit fall would be:
    Men should have the right to have an abortion. This would not be discriminative because men can't have an abortion, you can't have a right to something that you can't have (if men could have abortions but were denied them then there would be an issue).
    A similar case would be someone claiming women should have the right to castration, as women do not have testicles (I don't know about transsexuals, but I presume there's no implantation) then it would be nonsensical to talk about a woman's right to castration.

    Does that clear things up for you at all?
    I think you're going way off track with the point I was trying to make so let's dial it back a few notches. Do you need to be a feminist to believe in equal rights for both genders? I think most people would agree- of course not. Do you need to believe in equality to be a feminist? Apparently so. So apparently there is a part of feminism which is about applied principals etc. etc.

    I think it was feminist theories applied to English literature which annoyed me the most. (I'm doing English BA). It just tended to focus on 'this clearly symbolises male dominance over femininity' etc. and my natural inclination was to say 'Maybe...but then, the guy in the book was a douche and that doesn't have anything to do with the male kingdom trying to crush women because we apparently 'hate' them. The conventions of being a feminist bug the hell out of me that's all lol. Though I do understand that the term is often used and taken out of context and applied badlly.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    How does being self professed have anything to do with you getting along with someone.
    I don't like people with that mentality

    I'm a feminist, I believe men and women should be treated equally in the law and work place.
    Red= :lolwut:

    Blue= fine
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    > Because every feminist reacts the same way
    > they're robots
    > and don't have different reactions to each other or different personalities.
    > Furthermore all feminists are men :rolleyes: .
    > yes
    > yes
    > yes
    > wut?
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Because every feminist reacts the same way, they're robots, and don't have different reactions to each other or different personalities. Furthermore all feminists are men :rolleyes: .
    ...the **** are you on about? I never said any of that. You're making things up to make me look bad. What are you, a feminist? :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Diaz89)
    I don't like people with that mentality



    Red= :lolwut:

    Blue= fine
    So if I believe men and women should be equal, I then read "feminists believe men and women should be equal" I shouldn't say "I'm a feminist"?
    I'm confused, all that says about my mentality is that I can apply concepts and definitions to myself. It doesn't mean "I'm a moral agent" or "I'm more moral than you".
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    (Original post by MrHappy_J)
    you probably won't like to hear it, but lad mags often portray women as sex objects and nothing more, which is likely to increase the negative stereotypes of women. That is why feminists campaign against them.
    Feminists don't just "moan", they protest against certain things that indicate gender inequality, with reason.
    yet women want those jobs, so let them have them.

    I've seen so much **** in female mags that could be said to "portray men as sex objects" yet this doesn't even get the time of day.

    Gender equality in pay or law is one thing but the gender equality overall will be hard but i don't see what lads mags has to do with equality. What feminists seem to forget is women and men are different, equal but different. men will never be women and vice versa feminists don't want just equality they want to be the same as men and percieve any differences as inequalities.

    Whats wrong with a girl being looked at in a sexy way? most people with half a brain realise they are a person the same as women realise that men are also people even when they themselves are checking them out.

    There is nothing wrong with being sexualised, men and women will always look at each other that way because we find them sexually attractive i honestly don't believe that models encourage people to view them soley as sexual objects though.

    Overall i think that by feminists impeding other females and alienating most in society they are actually damaging their own cause if they campaigned aqgainst something that the majority of women wanted changed they would get a hell of a lot more support but they don't they go for fringe psyche campaigns that to me have **** all to do with equality.
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    (Original post by C.C.G)
    ...the **** are you on about? I never said any of that. You're making things up to make me look bad. What are you, a feminist? :rolleyes:
    I meant "women" at the end of the post you quoted.
    And you wrote some fairly stupid things, I thought I'd point them out.
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    I think you're going way off track with the point I was trying to make so let's dial it back a few notches. Do you need to be a feminist to believe in equal rights for both genders? I think most people would agree- of course not. Do you need to believe in equality to be a feminist? Apparently so. So apparently there is a part of feminism which is about applied principals etc. etc.

    I think it was feminist theories applied to English literature which annoyed me the most. (I'm doing English BA). It just tended to focus on 'this clearly symbolises male dominance over femininity' etc. and my natural inclination was to say 'Maybe...but then, the guy in the book was a douche and that doesn't have anything to do with the male kingdom trying to crush women because we apparently 'hate' them. The conventions of being a feminist bug the hell out of me that's all lol. Though I do understand that the term is often used and taken out of context and applied badlly.
    In which case the question must be asked "is it being applied correctly". If so is it a problem with the concept of feminism, or the fact that what's being said is very obvious, or even that it's making symbolism up where there is none (which would be an incorrect application)?
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    (Original post by ciawhobat)
    > yes
    > yes
    > yes
    > wut?
    ">wut?"

    I mean 'women'.
 
 
 
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