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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    I meant "women" at the end of the post you quoted.
    And you wrote some fairly stupid things, I thought I'd point them out.
    Didn't do a very good job, did you? I simply said I enjoyed winding up feminists, then you said I thought "every feminist reacts the same way, they're robots, and don't have different reactions to each other or different personalities.", which I don't. That's the fun of it, you get a different reaction each time.
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    What do I want now?

    I'd like more than 6.5% of reported rapes to end in a conviction (it's 25% in France btw)


    I'd like rapists to get more than a year or two in prison

    I'd like it if the idea that rape is the woman's fault was broken down, and then maybe more than 5-25% of rapes would actually be reported to the police

    I'd like it if more could be done to get young girls to see themselves as capable of achieving great things, then maybe so many of us wouldn't have imposter syndrome (MUCH more common in females), and maybe we'd aim higher (it's been proved that when males and females get exactly the same marks in their degree, the male is more likely to go on to phd. Same thing is seen with black people and white people)
    I'd like it if teachers could be more encouraging to women (it has been proven that if a male child and female child are of the same intelligence, the male will get more encouragement and support from the teacher!)

    These are the things I am trying to get now.

    Rape reports has nothing to do with equality its a legal issue not an equality issue. same with the rapists jail time and just so you know rape is a mandatory life sentence so they do have life parole as well as other life impeding things(not saying it helps but).


    Who believes rape is the womens fault(or mans because men can get raped as well) i don't know anyone who believes this, the only concievable way i would even consider taking this stance is if she got so bladdered she couldn't remember whether she consented or not and then cried rape even though she can't remember. As legally getting drunk is reckless in itself(majewski case).

    And again the rape being reported probably isn't because of this it's because most people i would imagine would rather get onj with their lives and forget it ever happened or in the case of men being raped are embarassed.

    Girls not thinking they can achieve is not and equality issue its a personal problem, if girls think they can't achieve then that's their problem no one is standing outside schools screaming girls can't achieve boys can so i have no idea where they get the idea they can't achieve bad parenting probably, most of the girls i know have more drive to succeed than the boys.


    Again i don't see how the bolded thing has anything to do with equality of the sexes, legally and socially we are equal therefore anything effecting many of the points above are individual issues and are mental problems rather than problems with social equality.


    Seriously the teacher thing is obviously wrong, different teachers will encourage different pupils. i doubt you will see a teacher go ohh we should encourage him more because hes a guy all of your points i see as having nothing to do with equality or to be completely coincidental and have no factual sou ce for your assumptions. to assume rape goes unreported because people view it as the "womens fault" seems illogical to me and i would suggest , as i already noted, its more to do with wanting to forget and move on rather than go through a traumatic and drawn out legal process.
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    (Original post by bananaslug77)
    I hate this idea that women shouldn't be in the kitchen and should have this awesome career and everything - yeah it's OKAY if you are a woman and you prefer that, but personally I love cooking and cleaning. Piss off, I'm staying in my god damn kitchen!!!
    You're my hero of the day! Can I marry you?
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    They're not feminist if they're against equality. However the term is often mis-used.
    Feminism is about equality, people who claim to be feminist but are against equality from a male-female point of view are mis-using the word, sometimes intentionally to try to draw people to their cause.

    Once more:
    If it their beliefs aren't about equality between males and females, and discriminate against someone based merely on the fact that they are male or female, then it is not feminism.
    An example of a potential pit fall would be:
    Men should have the right to have an abortion. This would not be discriminative because men can't have an abortion, you can't have a right to something that you can't have (if men could have abortions but were denied them then there would be an issue).
    A similar case would be someone claiming women should have the right to castration, as women do not have testicles (I don't know about transsexuals, but I presume there's no implantation) then it would be nonsensical to talk about a woman's right to castration.

    Does that clear things up for you at all?
    You are promoting what you think feminist to mean. However, what you are desribing is known as egalitarianism. The 'femi' part of feminism gives it away for most people above the age of 7. Just the same as 'masculinism' is just for men. Feminists are only concerned with promoting womens rights, whether that is upto the point of equal with a male or beyond is up for debate, however the fact that just womens issues get discussed in society means feminists by weight of numbers are in no way champions of equality. In fact, I challenge you to find me something, anything, feminists have ever done directly for men.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    In which case the question must be asked "is it being applied correctly". If so is it a problem with the concept of feminism, or the fact that what's being said is very obvious, or even that it's making symbolism up where there is none (which would be an incorrect application)?
    The majority of people who claim to be 'feminists' incorectly apply it. But then, I'd rather just be someone who wants equal right for everyone than having to worry about 'applying something correctly'. It's just easier and means nobody has to go into 'penis envy' and how everything is phallic. I just can't be ****** with that bull.
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    (Original post by C.C.G)
    Didn't do a very good job, did you? I simply said I enjoyed winding up feminists, then you said I thought "every feminist reacts the same way, they're robots, and don't have different reactions to each other or different personalities.", which I don't. That's the fun of it, you get a different reaction each time.
    Re-read the post in question, look at the language used, the way things are phrased, the personal pronouns etc.
    If it isn't clear by then try analysing language in general, the meaning of words, and with a bit of effort it should come to you.
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    (Original post by Elipsis)
    You are promoting what you think feminist to mean. However, what you are desribing is known as egalitarianism. The 'femi' part of feminism gives it away for most people above the age of 7. Just the same as 'masculinism' is just for men. Feminists are only concerned with promoting womens rights, whether that is upto the point of equal with a male or beyond is up for debate, however the fact that just womens issues get discussed in society means feminists by weight of numbers are in no way champions of equality. In fact, I challenge you to find me something, anything, feminists have ever done directly for men.
    Actually the 'femi' part of the word comes about because men have been in a dominant position. As a result the fight for equality was about promoting women's rights, as men already had such rights.
    Why would you need to fight for someone to have rights they already have? That wouldn't make any sense.
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    The majority of people who claim to be 'feminists' incorectly apply it. But then, I'd rather just be someone who wants equal right for everyone than having to worry about 'applying something correctly'. It's just easier and means nobody has to go into 'penis envy' and how everything is phallic. I just can't be ****** with that bull.
    So your issue doesn't seem to be with feminism but instead the application of principles which is wrongly called feminism?
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    (Original post by O-Ren)
    Don't be a ******* idiot. You know I didn't mean it like that! But when 6.5% of reported rapes in England end in a prosecution and 25% of reported rapes in France end in a prosecution there's clearly something wrong.
    Presumably you have some reason to think that many of those men who walk "free" (relatively) after a rape trial are in fact guilty? What is this reason, what do you know that the courts do not? And how can we increase those figures - what is going wrong, any idea? Maybe the police **** at investigating things?

    And there are many possible reasons for the difference between France and England. The first thing I wonder about is how many rape accusations are made, per capita, in each country? Perhaps English women just ******** a lot more than their more sensible French counterparts? Who knows.


    (Original post by O-Ren)
    IT IS ALWAYS THE RAPISTS FAULT THAT THE RAPE TOOK PLACE.
    I see.
    Do you think there are any ways that women can reduce the chances of being "raped" or "sexually assaulted"? I'm sure you do - so, do you think women have a responsibility to go to reasonable lengths to avoid those kind of situations? Again, I expect you do - we should all keep ourselves safe - so, I wonder, if a woman's irresponsible actions lead up to a situation where she is "raped" or similar, would you think her at all responsible?


    (Original post by O-Ren)
    The bit in bold is exactly what I mean, the bit after is completely not what I mean.
    And does that happen very often? What is stopping women from going on to do a phd? Are universities institutionally sexist? Are women less capable academically at that level, and so are not selected?




    (Original post by O-Ren)
    Here you go: Even when the teacher is chairing the conversation, boys are still in charge.
    Damn straight.

    (Original post by O-Ren)
    Various studies have come up with the same conclusion: boys get more attention from teachers than girls do.

    In one example, boys made twice as many contributions as girls, and talked for longer.
    That's unsurprising - boys are in every sense more outgoing and confident than girls.

    (Original post by O-Ren)
    This may have been in part because they were getting more encouragement from the teacher.
    oh may it have been?!

    (Original post by O-Ren)
    The teacher was videotaped and her eyegaze monitored - she looked towards the boys for almost two thirds of the time,
    Because, as mentioned above, they were talking a lot more than the girls????

    (Original post by O-Ren)
    and in particular, she looked at the boys when she wanted an answer to a question.
    That's a reasonable response by the teacher to the experience that girls can't/won't/don't answer the questions as much.

    (Original post by O-Ren)
    and
    yes?

    (Original post by O-Ren)
    In a study of children aged 2-5, parents interrupted their daughters more than their sons, and fathers were more likely to talk simultaneously with their children than mothers were. Jennifer Coates says: "It seems that fathers try to control conversation more than mothers... and both parents try to control conversation more with daughters than with sons. The implicit message to girls is that they are more interruptible and that their right to speak is less than that of boys.




    (Original post by O-Ren)
    By the way ciowhobat you are one of the most prolific misogynists on this site - Libtolu if you want proof that feminism is still needed, read through this guys old posts.
    What an honour!

    For the record, though - I don't consider myself a misogynist, although I know I will be one according to certain understandings of the word. I love women, I think they're fantastic, and it makes me sad that people are campaigning to literally turn them into men. If anything, that's misogynistic; saying to women that they're **** and instead they need to think like men, act like men and work like men.
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    (Original post by ciawhobat)
    Many do. "Rape" is not just a clear-cut thing that can get fixed sentances, anyway. Claims of "rape" can come about from the most simple and innocent of things, right up to the most awful assaults. There will always be a range of sentances handed out.

    Well in many cases the woman will have acted in a terribly irresponsible way and got herself into trouble. Is it her fault? Is it his? The concept of "fault" really has no place here - there are many factors that lead to situations where afterwards women consider themselves to have been "raped", it's not always just one person's "fault"
    Rape is being forced to engage in sexual behaviour against your will. Seems fairly clear-cut to me. Something simple and innocent will never be mistaken for rape, because these things stand in antithesis to the act of rape.
    Where is your evidence for the 'many' women acting in a terribly irresponsible way? I always find this just means that they were behaving like men - drinking, flirting.

    But thank you for singlehandedly proving that sexism is alive and well.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    So your issue doesn't seem to be with feminism but instead the application of principles which is wrongly called feminism?
    Exactly.


    Then again, if the majority of feminists [that I have come across] have used feminism differently than it's original aim, then the meaning of feminism itself changes and takes on a new role.

    But ultimately, yeah, what you said is correct.
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    (Original post by LoreleiLee)
    Rape is being forced to engage in sexual behaviour against your will. Seems fairly clear-cut to me. Something simple and innocent will never be mistaken for rape, because these things stand in antithesis to the act of rape.
    Where is your evidence for the 'many' women acting in a terribly irresponsible way? I always find this just means that they were behaving like men - drinking, flirting.

    But thank you for singlehandedly proving that sexism is alive and well.
    Rape is forced penetration by the penis into the vagina. Other forced sexual behaviour is sexual assault. Whilst rape carries a heavier weight emotionally for more people as a word, sexual assault can be just as serious.
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    Exactly.


    Then again, if the majority of feminists [that I have come across] have used feminism differently than it's original aim, then the meaning of feminism itself changes and takes on a new role.

    But ultimately, yeah, what you said is correct.
    Oh God don't go into that with me. I've recently done an essay on language-games (see Wittgenstein). Needless to say if you know his view, he's not the simplest of people, and as a result isn't easy to understand, the essay didn't go so well.
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    (Original post by LoreleiLee)
    Rape is being forced to engage in sexual behaviour against your will. Seems fairly clear-cut to me. Something simple and innocent will never be mistaken for rape, because these things stand in antithesis to the act of rape.
    Where is your evidence for the 'many' women acting in a terribly irresponsible way? I always find this just means that they were behaving like men - drinking, flirting.

    But thank you for singlehandedly proving that sexism is alive and well.
    We don't need to go very far to see how ridiculous "rape" accusations come about. I've seen many TSR threads where the OP claims she's been raped because the boy didn't phone her afterwards, or she says she originally said no to a guy at the start of the night but ended up riding his **** for hours later on, and everyone jumps in saying OMOMFOFMGOFMG YOU AM HAVE BEEN RAPED U MUST TELL POLICE GET HIM OFF THE STREEEEEEEEEEET!!!!1111111
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Oh God don't go into that with me. I've recently done an essay on language-games (see Wittgenstein). Needless to say if you know his view, he's not the simplest of people, and as a result isn't easy to understand, the essay didn't go so well.
    My brain hurts. lol. I just tend to go back to classical liberalism and avoid anything to do with gender-theory at all costs (:
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    (Original post by Libtolu)
    yet women want those jobs, so let them have them.

    I've seen so much **** in female mags that could be said to "portray men as sex objects" yet this doesn't even get the time of day.

    Gender equality in pay or law is one thing but the gender equality overall will be hard but i don't see what lads mags has to do with equality. What feminists seem to forget is women and men are different, equal but different. men will never be women and vice versa feminists don't want just equality they want to be the same as men and percieve any differences as inequalities.

    Whats wrong with a girl being looked at in a sexy way? most people with half a brain realise they are a person the same as women realise that men are also people even when they themselves are checking them out.

    There is nothing wrong with being sexualised, men and women will always look at each other that way because we find them sexually attractive i honestly don't believe that models encourage people to view them soley as sexual objects though.

    Overall i think that by feminists impeding other females and alienating most in society they are actually damaging their own cause if they campaigned aqgainst something that the majority of women wanted changed they would get a hell of a lot more support but they don't they go for fringe psyche campaigns that to me have **** all to do with equality.
    :facepalm:

    i've heard this so often, feminists don't want to be the same as men, they just want equal rights and the right to their own identity. By portraying women as sex objects lad mags are simply demoralising and teaching men that women are there to be seen and not heard.
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    (Original post by jumpingjesusholycow)
    My brain hurts. lol. I just tend to go back to classical liberalism and avoid anything to do with gender-theory at all costs (:
    At the moment that's what I do, but next year I'm hoping to do the module theorising gender. Wittgenstein however was a language philosopher. I don't think he wrote anything about gender theory (I might be wrong).
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    Ha ha, good opening joke.
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    (Original post by ciawhobat)
    What an honour!

    For the record, though - I don't consider myself a misogynist, although I know I will be one according to certain understandings of the word. I love women, I think they're fantastic, and it makes me sad that people are campaigning to literally turn them into men. If anything, that's misogynistic; saying to women that they're **** and instead they need to think like men, act like men and work like men.
    In the past you have said things about women that are absolutely horrific. At one point you compared expecting a woman to be interesting to be like complaining a cat does nothing but purr and sleep.

    Edit: and I also think it's incredibly sad you are dumb enough to think certain behaviours are 'masculine' or 'feminine'. The difference between men and women is that they have different bodies. There is no 'masculine' or 'feminine' way to be except what society dictates is so. If a woman wants to have a career then why is that a problem? She's not being a man she's being herself. And true feminists are not saying all women should behave in a way that's stereotypically male, they are trying to break down prejudice, so that women can behave in whichever way they like regardless of whether it's stereotypically 'male' or 'female'.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Re-read the post in question, look at the language used, the way things are phrased, the personal pronouns etc.
    If it isn't clear by then try analysing language in general, the meaning of words, and with a bit of effort it should come to you.
    Nope. I still don't see how your first post is relevent to mine whatsoever. I noted the sarcasm (on the Internet, bravo) but it seems all you did was make false assumptions on what I think about feminists.

    It seems you said the complete wrong thing, are now denying it, and trying to turn it around against me. Are you sure you're not a woman? :confused:
 
 
 
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