Anti-feminism and sexism!

Scroll to see replies

The concept even has 'femi' in the name. If it was for both sexes it would have a different name. I dunno who these magical feminists who campaign for both sides are? Because the only ones I see, and who have an effect on my life, are ones like Harriet *****man - who clearly only care about women. You keep dodging answering whether or not you can think of anything feminists have done for men, if they haven't done anything and there is something to do clearly they are not for both sexes.

Reply 161

Jelkin

nolongerhearthemusic

The "kitchen" thing is so overused, at least try to be original. At the very least you can think of another stereotype, there are loads.

Also, lol @ female misogynists. Yeah you are so unique and special, no one's ever thought of that before. Maybe if you declare it enough the misogynist men will let you be an honorary man, I mean you're not like the other girls 'cause you ~prefer the company of men~ and think ~most women are bitches~. We are in awe of you, truly.

Completely this. I think I might rep you.

Reply 162

MrHappy_J

Elipsis

The concept even has 'femi' in the name. If it was for both sexes it would have a different name. I dunno who these magical feminists who campaign for both sides are? Because the only ones I see, and who have an effect on my life, are ones like Harriet Whoreman - who clearly only care about women. You keep dodging answering whether or not you can think of anything feminists have done for men, if they haven't done anything and there is something to do clearly they are not for both sexes.

That's because when feminism emerged, women were oppressed and men were the oppressors, so the main aim was obviously to liberate women from this oppression. In their eyes society is patriarchical, so why would men need any help from them, assuming they would be prepared to accept it?
Nowadays feminists act on behalf of everyone for equal rights. They want men and women to be EQUAL, they never said that women should be superior, as you seem to think.

Reply 163

34253

I am repeating myself too. Actions speak louder than words, and although I can come up with hundreds of different things feminists have done for women not one comes to mind when I think about what they have done for men. This leads me to believe they are only out for women. I don't disagree that feminism was needed, but now we need mutual co-operation. You are extremely naiive in your interpretation of what constitutes a feminist. Here are the top 4 definitions of feminism on the web:
Definitions of feminism on the Web:

•

a doctrine that advocates equal rights for women
wordnetweb.princeton.edu/perl/webwn

•

Feminism is an intellectual, philosophical and political discourse aimed at equal rights and legal protection for women. ...
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Feminism

•

A social theory or political movement supporting the equality of both sexes in all aspects of public and private life; specifically, a theory or movement that argues that legal and social restrictions on females must be removed in order to bring about such equality
en.wiktionary.org/wiki/feminism

•

feminist - a supporter of feminism

•

feminist - of or relating to or advocating equal rights for women; "feminist critique"

It looks to me like they are only concerned with advocating womens rights - nothing to do with men.

Reply 164

MrHappy_J

devotchka_

I totally and utterly agree with you.
You just have to open a media textbook, and the words 'male gaze' fall into your lap. It's pretty much widely understood by theorists that an alternative to the 'male gaze' does not yet exist fully yet. Google it :smile:

I googled it and found this, I think everyone should read it, especially those who disagree about women in lad mags being portrayed as sex objects:

http://www.ltcconline.net/lukas/gender/pages/gaze.htm

Reply 165

34253

MrHappy_J

Men did not need representation before, but they do now. They are over powered by the feminist ideology that is espoused from the top to the bottom of government, and is taught in all schools across the country. Feminists do not act on behalf of everyone, I have no idea where you got that idea from. Feminists, if anything, stand in the way of men getting equal rights in areas such as family law. The fact they are bringing womens inequalities up to equal, and stopping men from equalling their inequalities, means they are priveledging women in Western society. Feminism, never has and never will do anything for men.

Reply 166

ciawhobat

O-Ren

Mmm sounds like you really 'love' women huh.

Yep, but only feminine ones. I don't like women who act like men :smile:

It's not becoming.

O-Ren

Only a misogynist thinks all women are boring. It's like saying all people with red hair are boring or all people with blue eyes are boring.

haha, do you not think that one's gender is a little more important than hair/eye colour when it comes to determining their behaviour? Whether it's inherent or learned, women and men act VERY differently - come on!

O-Ren

Women are as varied and unique as men.

Yes I don't know if I ever said "all" or not, but come on let's not waste time with the old "OMG not EVERY _ _ _ _ _ is _ _ _ _ _!!!!!!". We're talking about trends and what's common. E.g. Men are normally more aggressive (in all senses) than women. Agree? Of course you do. There are some women who are more aggressive than some men, but that's not important.

O-Ren

If you disagree it's because of your prejudices blinding you, or because you are so mindless yourself that women who are interesting avoid you.

Macho women avoid me, feminine women adore me.

O-Ren

And if you don't think comparing women to cats is horrific you really are detached. Comparing women to animals is actually very common amongst misogynists. Often rapists when they are beating the woman tell her she is little better than a dog.

Why is it horrific or even a bad thing to do at all? Women and cats have many similarities, I think. Comparing and contrasting humans with animals is something that's been going on since the dawn of time, and I have no problem with it. I've been compared to wide range of different animals and I don't object. Being like a cat sounds pretty complimentary, tbh.

O-Ren

High spatial ability is more common in men than women, and high language ability is more common in women than men. ~~MORE COMMON. This does not mean that only women are good at learning languages, or that only men are good at maths.~~ This is why the only fundamental differences in men and women are their sexual organs.

~~yes, omg, leave it out!~~

Do you feel that those are the only two inherent congitive differences between a man and a woman?

If you raised 1000 girls as though they were boys, and 1000 boys as though they were girls, do you think that they would be indistinguishable from comparison groups of genetic boys/girls apart from their spatial and language abilities?

O-Ren

The point is in the past there were women who wanted careers but weren't allowed them because people though 'women should be women' and stay in the home. If a woman wants to stay in the home she is being true to herself and that's fine.

Fine by me.

O-Ren

However, if someone wants to have a career that does not make them 'manly'. If someone wants to cook and spend a lot of time with their kids it does not make them 'womanly'.

I wonder, what, if any, charactersists/traits/lifestyles do you think warrant a description as either masculine or feminine (or similar terms)? Do you think those terms have any legitimate uses?

Reply 167

devotchka_

MrHappy_J

Let's get married and save the world from patriarchal oppression! :yes:

Reply 168

34253

You are entirely misunderstanding my point. Yes, they only want to bring women upto the standards of men in the areas they are behind. However, in areas men are behind they do nothing - they even stand in the way of things being said or done. If just one side is represented then inequalities always increase for the otherside, and whereas womens lives have gotten better and better mens have taken a step back, with their issues on the back burner. All you need to do is compare breast cancer treatment with prostate cancer treatment and you will see this.

Reply 169

ciawhobat

MrHappy_J

I also find it quite ironic that most people here would not tolerate a racist joke, whereas sexist jokes seem to be well recieved.

I'm as "racist" as I am "sexist" - any jokes like that are hilarious imo. I love differences between people; gender, race, religion, sexuality. It's all good. We're not the same, and that's great.

Reply 170

Rite

Elipsis

I am happy to admit that feminism was needed in the 60s and 70s, but not any more. Men are just as unequal as women today, but in different ways. All the happiness tests point to women actually being happier than men in society, indeed men commit suicide at a rate of about 3-4x more. The shameless promotion of one sex is leading to greater inequality.

How would you respond to this then:

http://www.thedailyshow.com/watch/wed-february-3-2010/male-inequality

specifically the bit at approx 1 minute in.

I'm not sure you can view that clip in your country, but here's a transcript:

"He's right, men run just four hundred and eighty five of our fortune 500 companies and only three branches of government; and there are more doors closing on them all the time."

They're being sarcastic btw. Unless you would claim that of the top 500 executives, 485 of them are men, which seems far-fetched. So isn't there some latent inequality still there (and therefore still something for feminists to fight for)? (and yes, this clip concerns the US corporations, but I would think most of the western world is similar in this regard).

Reply 171

34253

MrHappy_J

Yes, mens natural inclination to look at someone who is hot constitutes sexual harrassment :rolleyes:

. Sheesh, what a man hater. How about this, if you don't want to be looked at, dress conservatively? Don't sexualise yourself with make up, tit jobs, and skimpy clothes. It's like me walking down the street naked and complaining about people looking at my pecker. What a man hater.

Reply 172

Libtolu

devotchka_

That's true, women have a hell of a lot more opportunities in terms of work than they used to, but patriarchy extends to all corners of society. Traditional ideas of how a woman should and should not act are still upheld. A prime example, and something I'm not advocating, as it's somewhat grotesque, is the fact that a man can go out, drink loads act like a lout and it;s okay, but a woman does the same and she's labelled a ladette with no self respect. That's patriarchy right there. I don;t agree that women should act that way, but it's utterly demonised in the media and stuff. Men get off a lot more lightly with that type of behaviour.

I would say the blokes have just as little self respect, i like going out and drinking a lot but i don't act stupid. The problem with women doing it is because its a new phenomenon give it a few years and no one will care.

And i don't believe that traditional views about how women should act ares till upheld but i do believe that in some things there is a distinction but id on't see this as a completely bad thing, because after all men and women are different both physically and mentally.

I think its demonised more by the media simply because most of the head honchos in the media are men and to be honest the last thing i want to see is a girl wasted on the pavement, i don't want ot see a man either but as i want to have sex with females i just don't want to see it, i don't know its irrationale but meh its how i feel.

But even though ideologicaly a completely gender blind society is a good thing, realisticly it can never happen because we do notice peoples gender and it would take 1000's of years before we get rid of patriarchal influence on society primarily because human society has since its conception been patriarchal in nature(there are some minor examples) this will take a long time to change and even longer especially because there are noticable differences between the genders.

One day it will change(it seems ineveitable) but that will be thousands if not tens of thousands of years in the future and it will be subtle changes, like girls wearing trousers(example) not all the changes will come like women getting the vote most of them will be generations worth of slightly differeing attitudes.

I actually don't know why i wrote half of what is above i got sidetracked lol.

Reply 173

MrHappy_J

Elipsis

Ok, in what country is the feminist ideology taught in schools? :s-smilie:

It isn't taught, unless you study A level sociology (like me).

I think you're just scared at the fact that women have slowly but surely gained equal rights to men. But by no means feminists are "overpowering" men, whatever that's supposed to mean. It has just made gender inequality and sexual discrimination less acceptable, and I can't see what's wrong with that.

Reply 174

34253

Rite

I never said there wasn't inequalities, however there are inequalities for both sides, and these inequalities are equal. Women are gaining ground in business, but if anything men are getting more screwed in family court - so women are having their cake and eating it. Out of interest, how many of those fortune 500 companies did women create? Perhaps when they are capable of creating highly successful companies they will be put in charge of them.

Reply 175

34253

Even on a conceptual level it is only concerned with ironing out female inequalities, not male inequalities. The clue is in the femi.

Reply 176

ciawhobat

There's a serious flaw with much feminist thinking, and it applies also to various **** about race and so on, too.

If men and women are 'equal' and essentially indistinguishable from each other apart from their reproductive organs (as has been clearly proposed in this thread already), then any idea of complaining about the places of men and women in society and what they each acheive becomes completely meaningless, since why are you even recognising them as two different groups in the first place? If men and women are the same and should not be regarded differently, then what does it matter than 100 men take the 100 top jobs. It should be the same as if 100 women do, or if it's 50/50?

It is immediately fallacious to call for 'equality' (meaning, normally, an enforced 50/50 share of wealth and lifestyles) between men and women on the grounds that they are inherently the same. Because, if they're the same, then what does it even matter? The discrimination then vanishes instantly.

Reply 177

TShadow383

Inequality against men is currently enshrined in law - we retire later despite our reduced life expectancy, from the birth of our children we have less rights in their upbringing than the mother. Men are also expected to be breadwinners - working long hours to feed their families - the 12% wage gap is a byproduct of this pressure - since the average man works far more hours than the average woman, you would expect a difference in salary and career progression.

MrHappy_J

Men, on the other hand, are NOT sex objects to women- look at gossip magazines and you will rarely find a picture of a naked man inside. That says something about what attitudes women are expected to have towards sex- passive and submissive.

You must be ******* joking!
The girls in my sixth form took a stack of "gossip" mags (about 30 or so) and tore out all the pages containing topless or basically naked men. They wallpapered one wall of our common room.

Reply 178

34253

MrHappy_J

Ok, in what country is the feminist ideology taught in schools? :s-smilie:

It is taught in history lessons. It is taught in English lessons. It is espoused by the female teachers. Things like the paygap are told to children. At all female schools they often dedicate a lot of time to feminist indoctrination. I'm not scared by the fact women have gained equal rights, I am pissed off they have had so much time devoted to their issues whilst mens issues have been semi-permenantly pushed to the sidelines when they are equally important. Women are gaining ground in the work place, the same cannot be said of men in the home. The home, many will agree, is far more important than the workplace, and has a far greater bareing on the overall fulfillment and happiness of the individual.

Reply 179

MrHappy_J

Elipsis

Yes, mens natural inclination to look at someone who is hot constitutes sexual harrassment :rolleyes:

For the last time, I'm not a man-hater. :rolleyes:

Your ad-hominem arguments are pitiable, very pitiable indeed.

Dressing the way you want to dress does not justify sexual harrassment. Just because a girl walks down the street in a miniskirt does not give men the right to touch her ass without her consent, and by no means is it justifiable. The fact that men percieve it as justifiable is the sort of sex discrimination we encounter nowadays, but sadly it is largely ignored.