Hey there! Sign in to join this conversationNew here? Join for free
x Turn on thread page Beta

'9/11 bombers are heroes' watch

Announcements
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mathperson)
    I do not realise how extreme I sound, I would assume as extreme as the people who attacked this country on 7/7? But seriously I do find it hard sometimes to look at how others 'see' how I'm writing (asperger's and difficulty with perspectives), but it doesn't change my views??
    I'm sorry but you sound absolutely insane. The Nazis? So you condone the murder of over 6 million innocent men, women and children?
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Antonia87)
    Oh its very true. She just told the kid she bloody would listen to her, muslim or not.

    That's ridiculous! Why would you send your kid to a school with white teachers & tell them not to listen to them.

    My nan lives in Feltham and it's disgusting. Without sounding too racist, wherever there's a large asian community, the place goes to ****. You see it all over the country - London, Birmingham, Manchester. A lot of them don't want to mix with us, just live in our country. Not all Muslims, just the one's who stick to their own
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Playboy King)
    You said it's 'kinda like' complaining about tax in this country and wanting to stay in tax havens. I'm saying it's not like that at all, because they simply complain...they don't actually wish to stay in the terror stricken islamic states they defend - probably because they know of the corruption and mindless killing their 'heroes' are involved in. Iraq, Afghanistan, Pakistan all have had many, many more terrorist attacks/suicide bombings killing predominantly (if not ALL) muslims...those that support 9/11 bombers refuse to judge the organisation's cruel treatment of muslims themselves yet they applaud the such mindless acts against the west.

    Reminds me of Irish-American attitudes towards 'The Troubles' pre 9-11. In a rather odd twist, the 9-11 attacks that helped to solidify the peace in Northern Ireland as all of a sudden terrorism of all kinds, and active support of terrorist groups became rather 'unfashionable', and indeed illegal.

    It is a sad fact that ex-pat communities often glamourise and excuse murder 'back home' without having any real understanding of the actual realities involved. The big difference between various nationalist causes, be they Northern Ireland, the Tamils in Sri Lanka, the Basques and so on, is that Islamic extremism has basically become a 'catch all' grievance for any Muslim that happens to be unhappy with something, which ultimately makes it very, very hard to combat as there is no obvious or realistic way of either convincing those involved (which is basically every Muslim to a greater or lesser degree) that their grievances are either unfounded, pointless, or for that matter even meeting their grievances and trying to solve them.


    You cannot solve the root cause of Islamic extremism, as that ultimately stems from Islam being the driving force behind a pan-national culture that dominated much of world trade for the best part of five or six hundred years, but then (as did the rest of the world) found itself very much subservient to the technological might of first European nations, and then of course the US. In fact the US Navy was originally founded to combat the Muslim Barbary Pirates who had started to prey on US shipping as it no longer came under the protection of the Royal Navy, indeed this was also the first overseas military expedition of the new United States of America...
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Antonia87)
    I'm sorry but you sound absolutely insane. The Nazis? So you condone the murder of over 6 million innocent men, women and children?
    Of course I don't, I'm here criticizing the fact that some muslims drive planes into towers etc, if I were to condone that it would make me just as bad, I'm just saying that there are problems that need dealing with, like the one you said about your friend in a nursery, attitudes like that, you know?
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    Whats that theoy about comparing people to Nazi's in a forum thread..... there is some mathematicle formula (that i don't know), but it signals that the conversation is in decline and the thread has finished.

    Why does The Daily Fail always generate such long threads on here? (8 pages... i mean really, is the rag worht the effort?)
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mathperson)
    I'd love to be incharge of this country
    Hi mathperson, I would be shocked true. Good news it that is a very false translation.

    Here is a correct one for suah 4:34.
    "Men are (meant to be righteous and kind) guardians of women because God has favored some more than others and because they (i.e. men) spend out of their wealth. (In their turn) righteous women are (meant to be) devoted and to guard what God has (willed to be) guarded even though out of sight (of the husband). As for those (women) on whose part you fear ill-will and nasty conduct, admonish them (first), (next) separate them in beds (and last) beat them. But if they obey you, then seek nothing against them. Behold, God is most high and great. (4:34)
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    So that'd be two...
    It would indeed. I also have a feeling that The Sun would report on it as well and perhaps all of the tabloids. There's also the fact that The Sun and The Mail are by far the most popular newspapers.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Steezy)
    That's ridiculous! Why would you send your kid to a school with white teachers & tell them not to listen to them.

    My nan lives in Feltham and it's disgusting. Without sounding too racist, wherever there's a large asian community, the place goes to ****. You see it all over the country - London, Birmingham, Manchester. A lot of them don't want to mix with us, just live in our country. Not all Muslims, just the one's who stick to their own
    For a start, the Asian community in Brum brings in tourism, the balti belt. Not really going to **** with a booming restraunt trade
    There's a Jewish community too, who don't mix
    But no one's lambasting them
    They do jobs, they spend money, and thus contribute to society
    I'm white and don't like mixing with most white people so that's a lovely bit of flawed thinking there. What, shall we send me to another country too? If the Muslim community did try and mix, they'd probably attacked and driving back into hiding, no real incentive there
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by manicstreetpreacher91)
    For a start, the Asian community in Brum brings in tourism, the balti belt. Not really going to **** with a booming restraunt trade
    There's a Jewish community too, who don't mix
    But no one's lambasting them
    They do jobs, they spend money, and thus contribute to society
    I'm white and don't like mixing with most white people so that's a lovely bit of flawed thinking there. What, shall we send me to another country too? If the Muslim community did try and mix, they'd probably attacked and driving back into hiding, no real incentive there
    This post is ridiculous. I know muslim people. I work with some muslims, there's no chasing whatsoever. They're welcome just as much as anyone. What you said about some Jewish communities is true, I agree with you and what I previously mentioned applies to those communities as well.

    I haven't said anything about sending people to different countries, so calm down and wipe your eyes.

    I merely stated that in areas of largely asian population, you can usually expect them to be ill-looked after, dirty and smelly. That's not being racist (before you start crying again), that's just my observations. Go to Feltham in SW London or Oldham in Manchester if you want to see my point, as those are the places I'm basing this observation on.

    I'm sure there are other countries which think the same about pockets of english communities & they may be right. The only difference is, they are allowed to express their feelings without being attacked by some self-righteous, snivveling activist who takes offense to what they say.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mathperson)
    Of course I don't
    You admit to being a pro nazi and stated that their loss in WWII "was a shame"; how is that not condoning their actions, including the murders of over 6 million innocent men, women and children? Must be on a wind up, no-one can possibly be that blinkered.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mathperson)
    Of course I don't, I'm here criticizing the fact that some muslims drive planes into towers etc, if I were to condone that it would make me just as bad
    And yet you condone the Nazi gassing of 6 million innocent people, and you probably wish that far more would have been killed seeing as you "wish the Nazis had won". :hmmm:

    And you aren't just criticising terrorist acts; you said that you want all Muslims kicked out of the country and any Muslims who disagrees with "British values" (whatever that means) should be gassed to death instead.

    Then you claim not to be a fascist. Hmm.

    I'm just saying that there are problems that need dealing with, like the one you said about your friend in a nursery, attitudes like that, you know?
    Whilst that attitude is bad, I think the more pressing problem is people who wish for a Nazi State. :indiff:

    (Original post by mathperson)
    I do not realise how extreme I sound
    So this is perfectly normal to you? Seriously now?

    What kind of home do you come from?!

    But seriously I do find it hard sometimes to look at how others 'see' how I'm writing (asperger's and difficulty with perspectives), but it doesn't change my views??
    Lol. So you claim that you don't hind behind "aspergers" and yet you bring it up at every opportunity.

    All I have to say to that is: 'cool story, bro'.

    And reply to my posts... unless you're too threatened by the arguments which actually make coherent sense. I'll say it again, you seem too scared to engage in the discussion? Patently, seeing as you dominated the thread until I came along, proposed significant objections to your moronically spewed garbage and with that, you bid me a 'goodbye' and fled with your metaphorical tale between your legs.

    Quite a manly thing to do... but then again you're contemplating suicide ( :rolleyes: ) so I suppose that'll always be your trump card on me, 'mate'.
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by n1r4v)
    I don't want the thread to veer off, so I may PM you on that point later if you don't mind :yes:
    No, not at all
    Offline

    15
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mathperson)
    Of course I don't, I'm here criticizing the fact that some muslims drive planes into towers etc, if I were to condone that it would make me just as bad, I'm just saying that there are problems that need dealing with, like the one you said about your friend in a nursery, attitudes like that, you know?
    You know I too am as intelligent as you. I reckon all Christians are a bunch of evil "witch burning" republican Irish nationalist holocaust denying pedophilic maniacs :rolleyes: .

    After all as you so cleverly tell us, you should form opinions on a religion based on people who do things against that religion in the name of that religion. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
    Offline

    11
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by mathperson)
    its funny how its only muslims who question the validity of quotations given on here, not just by me, might I suggest that you all start to read about your 'religion', so you truly know the context and what you are talking about
    People are right to question the validity of your quotes as they are mistranslations at best. For example:


    The Quran in Sura 2:228 says:
    . . . Wives have the same rights as the husbands have on them in accordance with the generally known principles. Of course, men are a degree above them in status . . . (Sayyid Abul A’La Maududi, The Meaning of the Qur’an, vol. 1, p. 165)
    Well I actually have the whole volume set of this commentary on the Qur'an and you miss out many important facts from your sig.

    1) This is translation from Arabic to Urdu to English by a student of Maududi and hence it's not as accurate as a direct translation from Arabic to English. For example, the word of course is not found in other translations:

    Yusuf Ali:

    Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what God Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in God and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And God is Exalted in Power, Wise.

    Zohurul Hoque:

    And the divorced women must keep themselves waiting for three courses. And it is not lawful for them to conceal that which Allah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allah and the Future Day. And their husbands have a better right to take them back in the meanwhile, if they wish for reconciliation. And they have rights similar to those against them in a just manner. Yet men have a stage above them. And Allah is Exalted in Might, most Wise.

    T. J. Irving:
    Divorced women should wait [alone] by themselves for three menstrual periods; it is not lawful for them to hide what God has created in their wombs if they believe in God and the Last Day. Their husband ought to take them back meanwhile in case they want a reconciliation. Women have the same [rights in relation to their husbands] as are expected in all decency from them; while men stand a step above them. God is Powerful, Wise.

    T.U. Hilali-M. Khan:

    And divorced women shall wait (as regards their marriage) for three menstrual periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allâh has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allâh and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses, etc.) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect, etc.) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allâh is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

    M. Pickthall:

    Women who are divorced shall wait, keeping themselves apart, three (monthly) courses. And it is not lawful for them that they should conceal that which Allah hath created in their wombs if they are believers in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands would do better to take them back in that case if they desire a reconciliation. And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness, and men are a degree above them. Allah is Mighty, Wise.

    M.H. Shakir:
    And the divorced women should keep themselves in waiting for three courses; and it is not lawful for them that they should conceal what Allah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allah and the last day; and their husbands have a better right to take them back in the meanwhile if they wish for reconciliation; and they have rights similar to those against them in a just manner, and the men are a degree above them, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

    2) The whole point of this volume was Maududi's commentary not his translation. It might be the case that Maududi didn't translate the verse himself.

    3) With regards to the actual verse, the phrase men are a degree over women is refering to the fact that in Islam husbands must provide for their families including their wife. The wife may still work but the husband cannot ask for his wife's money but she has a right to ask for money from him. This is evident from hadith and from other verses in the Qur'an.

    The Quran in Sura 4:34 says:
    4:34 . . . If you fear highhandedness from your wives, remind them [of the teaching of God], then ignore them when you go to bed, then hit them. If they obey you, you have no right to act against them. God is most high and great. (Haleem, emphasis added)
    You really show you naivety with regards to you knowledge of Islam by quoting this verse. Many verses of the Qur'an require extensive analysis to get a full understanding of the what they mean and cannot as you're trying to do be looked at at face value. Here is full commentary on that one verse, see how long it is? I will summurise some of the points for you:

    1) Full verse:

    "Men are (meant to be righteous and kind) guardians of women because God has favored some more than others and because they (i.e. men) spend out of their wealth. (In their turn) righteous women are (meant to be) devoted and to guard what God has (willed to be) guarded even though out of sight (of the husband). As for those (women) on whose part you fear ill-will and nasty conduct, admonish them (first), (next) separate them in beds (and last) beat them. But if they obey you, then seek nothing against them. Behold, God is most high and great. (4:34)

    2) The verse is talking about bad conduct from the wife against the husband which intentionally annoys him and damages the relationship between them. It highlights punishments against the wife for doing such deeds. First admonish, verbally tell the wife that the act in question is annoying or hurtful. Next seperate in bed in order for each partner to calm down and evaluate the situation and so that the wife understands the magnitude of the problem. After all of that the wife continues to harass her husband, "beat" the wife. Now here is where the West projects its own insecruities on Muslims and assumes that this means vicious assualt. In actual fact it is mentioned in Hadith (AFAIK) that "beating" should be done with a miswaak (twig), that it should not leave marks, that it should not be on the face and that it should not be excessive. The miswaak is a small twig used to clean teeth in Arab culture, here are some pics:




    The miswaak is typically a few inches in length and flexiable. "Beating" by this feels more like a small insect bite for a few minutes, the pain quickly goes away. To prove the point I got the hardest, longest and narrowest miswaak I could find and hit myself as hard as I could (multiple times) on the soft part of my forearm. It hurt a bit but the pain quickly went although I hit myself too hard as I left a mark. It seems that this "beating" is more symbolic than actually wanting to cause harm.

    3) If any party be it the man or the women feel that they've been wronged, they can file for divorce. However, it seems that the spirit of the verse is that disapprovement can be expressed in a gradual manner in order to address disputes and avoid divorce.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Right>Left)
    What would you have said should it have turned up in the guardian?
    It did NOT turn up in the Guardian because it's unlikely to be accurate.
    If it ever does turn up in the Guardian come back to me and I'll give you an answer
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Sakujo)
    People are right to question the validity of your quotes as they are mistranslations at best.
    I gave him some quotes, that in Islam women shouldn't be mistreated, as thats what he wanted; but when u do prove him wrong he just won't say anything to that or he's trying to think of something 'extremely smart' to say :rolleyes:
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by CrazyPyramid)
    It would indeed. I also have a feeling that The Sun would report on it as well and perhaps all of the tabloids. There's also the fact that The Sun and The Mail are by far the most popular newspapers.
    The Sun for the most part seems to just publish eye-catching entertainment related news, so I doubt that. But even then, it's really saying something that only tabloids will report anything that isn't necessarily friendly towards Islam, or about how religious rights are being systematically worn away in Britain. The major newspapers on the other hand, even if they're more reliable on the stories that they do publish, they completely avoid anything that isn't completely PC.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by DJkG.1)
    And yet you condone the Nazi gassing of 6 million innocent people, and you probably wish that far more would have been killed seeing as you "wish the Nazis had won". :hmmm:

    And you aren't just criticising terrorist acts; you said that you want all Muslims kicked out of the country and any Muslims who disagrees with "British values" (whatever that means) should be gassed to death instead.

    Now lets not start the 'putting words into people's mouths' now, what I said origionally was that all muslims should be deported and those who refuse or could pose a threat in future should be 'put down'.

    Then you claim not to be a fascist. Hmm.

    I did not claim not to be a fascist, if your view of fascism is dealing with problems swiftly and efficiently, without all of this politically correct nonsense, then yes I am fascist.



    Whilst that attitude is bad, I think the more pressing problem is people who wish for a Nazi State. :indiff:



    So this is perfectly normal to you? Seriously now?

    What do you mean? What is perfectly normal to me would be to live in a country where we can talk about what we like without people crying 'offence' everytime something is said that they don't like, I mean we are surpossed (spelling?) to live in a democracy, and if I were incharge it would be a democracy, but problems would be dealt with, thats all. AGAIN, LETS NOT TRY TO DERIVE STUFF ABOUT WHAT I'M SAYING BECAUSE THEN WE'LL GET IN TO CONVERSATIONS WHERE EVERYTHING YOU SAY IS BASED ON ASSUMPTIONS, NOT WHAT I HAVE ACTUALLY SAID.

    What kind of home do you come from?!

    Not sure why this is relevant, but I come from a loving home :confused:



    Lol. So you claim that you don't hind behind "aspergers" and yet you bring it up at every opportunity.

    What do you mean 'bring it up at every opportunity'? I said to a guy that I find it hard to know what others are thinking, basically, and the only other time I brought it up was when talking about depression and suicide, in a seperate thread(s)

    All I have to say to that is: 'cool story, bro'.

    And reply to my posts... unless you're too threatened by the arguments which actually make coherent sense. I'll say it again, you seem too scared to engage in the discussion? Patently, seeing as you dominated the thread until I came along, proposed significant objections to your moronically spewed garbage and with that, you bid me a 'goodbye' and fled with your metaphorical tale between your legs.

    Quite a manly thing to do... but then again you're contemplating suicide ( :rolleyes: ) so I suppose that'll always be your trump card on me, 'mate'.

    I'm sorry, I have absolutely no idea what your last paragraph meant, what is your point?
    ...edit: sorry the quote went a bit wrong :s
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    You know I too am as intelligent as you. I reckon all Christians are a bunch of evil "witch burning" republican Irish nationalist holocaust denying pedophilic maniacs :rolleyes: .

    After all as you so cleverly tell us, you should form opinions on a religion based on people who do things against that religion in the name of that religion. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
    please form a coherant sentence, and stop with the :rolleyes: because its hard to read and rather immature, thanks.
    Offline

    16
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by xxhijabixx)
    I gave him some quotes, that in Islam women shouldn't be mistreated, as thats what he wanted; but when u do prove him wrong he just won't say anything to that or he's trying to think of something 'extremely smart' to say :rolleyes:
    lol, where does the 'stereotypical' view of muslims come from then.

    Note: a typical answer would be along the lines of the media launching a conspiracy against Islam.
 
 
 
Poll
Do you agree with the proposed ban on plastic straws and cotton buds?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.