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    (Original post by mathperson)
    please form a coherant sentence, and stop with the :rolleyes: because its hard to read and rather immature, thanks.
    That's a bit hypocritical now, isn't it?

    After your last post replying to me. :rofl:
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    I just want to say that no matter how many people try to 'gang up' on me at once, in order to try to make me back down, I will never back down, we've all seen the attitudes of muslims on TSR and in real life and what they have done. Documentaries, quotations, etc etc.
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    (Original post by mathperson)
    I just want to say that no matter how many people try to 'gang up' on me at once, in order to try to make me back down, I will never back down, we've all seen the attitudes of muslims on TSR and in real life and what they have done. Documentaries, quotations, etc etc.
    Lol no need to get defensive.

    The attitude of Muslims on TSR? Point out what you're hung up on.

    In real life, what they've done? Are you talking about the same handfuls again and again?

    Is it right for me to hate Europeans because Europeans dragged the entire world into two World Wars in the last century?

    Grow up kiddo, seriously. :rolleyes:

    I will never back down
    :rofl: Thanks for the unnecessary (and false) 'victory declaration'. :erm: You're not fighting a war here, you're making posts on an internet forum. You don't lose when you stop posting, you lose when everybody realises that you're a complete ****** (though your a self-confessed retard, having had a look at your past posts). So in crux, you've basically lost. So why not just **** off?

    (Original post by mathperson)
    ...edit: sorry the quote went a bit wrong :s
    Yeah, they did. I can't even make sense of that garbage and you've just added another bite of evidence to the rather strong theory that you're incapable of even the simplest tasks now that you've mastered cogency over the computer.

    Oh and seeing as you're so proud of Blighty, why not learn the language and write in English rather than the new-age simplified text you adopt as it's all your neanderthal brain can handle. We have dictionaries containing spellings for a reason. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Delta Usafa)
    The Sun for the most part seems to just publish eye-catching entertainment related news, so I doubt that. But even then, it's really saying something that only tabloids will report anything that isn't necessarily friendly towards Islam, or about how religious rights are being systematically worn away in Britain. The major newspapers on the other hand, even if they're more reliable on the stories that they do publish, they completely avoid anything that isn't completely PC.
    The Telegraph rather delight in publishing things that aren't PC and they are the most popular (again by quite some way) broadsheet. It's only really the Guardian/Independent that are quite PC.
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    (Original post by mathperson)
    I just want to say that no matter how many people try to 'gang up' on me at once, in order to try to make me back down, I will never back down, we've all seen the attitudes of muslims on TSR and in real life and what they have done. Documentaries, quotations, etc etc.
    :fuhrer:

    :rofl:

    Please could you answer my previous post especially how you were boasting that your interpretations of such quotations were irrefutable.
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    (Original post by mathperson)
    please form a coherant sentence, and stop with the :rolleyes: because its hard to read and rather immature, thanks.
    Yes I'am immature right? As I'm the one who wants to deport all Muslims regardless of status, contribution to Britain etc. and gas those who resist. Let me inform you of the consequences of this:

    Complete economic collapse not just due to a load of the labour force leaving but also due to the more civilised nations cutting ties/ UN sanctions etc.

    Complete military collapse as you're kicked out of NATO, unable to buy weapons from other countries due to sanctions.

    Massive social unrest/unemploment/inflation due to the first factor especially and mass protests from decent people who do not want the holocaust repeated.

    etc. etc. etc.

    This begs the question: Why not just gas you and avoid a potential genocide?
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    (Original post by Sakujo)
    People are right to question the validity of your quotes as they are mistranslations at best. For example:

    Well I actually have the whole volume set of this commentary on the Qur'an and you miss out many important facts from your sig.

    1) This is translation from Arabic to Urdu to English by a student of Maududi and hence it's not as accurate as a direct translation from Arabic to English. For example, the word of course is not found in other translations:

    Yusuf Ali:

    Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what God Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in God and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And God is Exalted in Power, Wise.

    Zohurul Hoque:

    And the divorced women must keep themselves waiting for three courses. And it is not lawful for them to conceal that which Allah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allah and the Future Day. And their husbands have a better right to take them back in the meanwhile, if they wish for reconciliation. And they have rights similar to those against them in a just manner. Yet men have a stage above them. And Allah is Exalted in Might, most Wise.

    T. J. Irving:
    Divorced women should wait [alone] by themselves for three menstrual periods; it is not lawful for them to hide what God has created in their wombs if they believe in God and the Last Day. Their husband ought to take them back meanwhile in case they want a reconciliation. Women have the same [rights in relation to their husbands] as are expected in all decency from them; while men stand a step above them. God is Powerful, Wise.

    T.U. Hilali-M. Khan:

    And divorced women shall wait (as regards their marriage) for three menstrual periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allâh has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allâh and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses, etc.) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect, etc.) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allâh is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

    M. Pickthall:

    Women who are divorced shall wait, keeping themselves apart, three (monthly) courses. And it is not lawful for them that they should conceal that which Allah hath created in their wombs if they are believers in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands would do better to take them back in that case if they desire a reconciliation. And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness, and men are a degree above them. Allah is Mighty, Wise.

    M.H. Shakir:
    And the divorced women should keep themselves in waiting for three courses; and it is not lawful for them that they should conceal what Allah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allah and the last day; and their husbands have a better right to take them back in the meanwhile if they wish for reconciliation; and they have rights similar to those against them in a just manner, and the men are a degree above them, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

    2) The whole point of this volume was Maududi's commentary not his translation. It might be the case that Maududi didn't translate the verse himself.

    3) With regards to the actual verse, the phrase men are a degree over women is refering to the fact that in Islam husbands must provide for their families including their wife. The wife may still work but the husband cannot ask for his wife's money but she has a right to ask for money from him. This is evident from hadith and from other verses in the Qur'an.



    You really show you naivety with regards to you knowledge of Islam by quoting this verse. Many verses of the Qur'an require extensive analysis to get a full understanding of the what they mean and cannot as you're trying to do be looked at at face value. Here is full commentary on that one verse, see how long it is? I will summurise some of the points for you:

    1) Full verse:

    "Men are (meant to be righteous and kind) guardians of women because God has favored some more than others and because they (i.e. men) spend out of their wealth. (In their turn) righteous women are (meant to be) devoted and to guard what God has (willed to be) guarded even though out of sight (of the husband). As for those (women) on whose part you fear ill-will and nasty conduct, admonish them (first), (next) separate them in beds (and last) beat them. But if they obey you, then seek nothing against them. Behold, God is most high and great. (4:34)

    2) The verse is talking about bad conduct from the wife against the husband which intentionally annoys him and damages the relationship between them. It highlights punishments against the wife for doing such deeds. First admonish, verbally tell the wife that the act in question is annoying or hurtful. Next seperate in bed in order for each partner to calm down and evaluate the situation and so that the wife understands the magnitude of the problem. After all of that the wife continues to harass her husband, "beat" the wife. Now here is where the West projects its own insecruities on Muslims and assumes that this means vicious assualt. In actual fact it is mentioned in Hadith (AFAIK) that "beating" should be done with a miswaak (twig), that it should not leave marks, that it should not be on the face and that it should not be excessive. The miswaak is a small twig used to clean teeth in Arab culture, here are some pics:




    The miswaak is typically a few inches in length and flexiable. "Beating" by this feels more like a small insect bite for a few minutes, the pain quickly goes away. To prove the point I got the hardest, longest and narrowest miswaak I could find and hit myself as hard as I could (multiple times) on the soft part of my forearm. It hurt a bit but the pain quickly went although I hit myself too hard as I left a mark. It seems that this "beating" is more symbolic than actually wanting to cause harm.

    3) If any party be it the man or the women feel that they've been wronged, they can file for divorce. However, it seems that the spirit of the verse is that disapprovement can be expressed in a gradual manner in order to address disputes and avoid divorce.
    (Original post by mathperson)
    I'am absolute bell end who got completely destroyed by the above which is why I was unable to answer it
    I agree with that tbh.
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    (Original post by mathperson)
    hahaha
    Excellent and ludicrously sophisticated, well formed reponse to that idiot :yy:. By the way I think all Europeans should be chucked into the sea and all who resist should be gassed. After all who else brought about 2 huge World Wars, nuclear weapons, colonisation, killed thousands of innocents in Iraq and Afghanistan and pretty much funded the mujahideen who became the "Muslim" terrorists who you now so lovingly describe. :rolleyes:
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    (Original post by Sakujo)
    People are right to question the validity of your quotes as they are mistranslations at best. For example:


    Well I actually have the whole volume set of this commentary on the Qur'an and you miss out many important facts from your sig.

    1) This is translation from Arabic to Urdu to English by a student of Maududi and hence it's not as accurate as a direct translation from Arabic to English. For example, the word of course is not found in other translations:

    Yusuf Ali:

    Divorced women shall wait concerning themselves for three monthly periods. Nor is it lawful for them to hide what God Hath created in their wombs, if they have faith in God and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And women shall have rights similar to the rights against them, according to what is equitable; but men have a degree (of advantage) over them. And God is Exalted in Power, Wise.

    Zohurul Hoque:

    And the divorced women must keep themselves waiting for three courses. And it is not lawful for them to conceal that which Allah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allah and the Future Day. And their husbands have a better right to take them back in the meanwhile, if they wish for reconciliation. And they have rights similar to those against them in a just manner. Yet men have a stage above them. And Allah is Exalted in Might, most Wise.

    T. J. Irving:
    Divorced women should wait [alone] by themselves for three menstrual periods; it is not lawful for them to hide what God has created in their wombs if they believe in God and the Last Day. Their husband ought to take them back meanwhile in case they want a reconciliation. Women have the same [rights in relation to their husbands] as are expected in all decency from them; while men stand a step above them. God is Powerful, Wise.

    T.U. Hilali-M. Khan:

    And divorced women shall wait (as regards their marriage) for three menstrual periods, and it is not lawful for them to conceal what Allâh has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allâh and the Last Day. And their husbands have the better right to take them back in that period, if they wish for reconciliation. And they (women) have rights (over their husbands as regards living expenses, etc.) similar (to those of their husbands) over them (as regards obedience and respect, etc.) to what is reasonable, but men have a degree (of responsibility) over them. And Allâh is All-Mighty, All-Wise.

    M. Pickthall:

    Women who are divorced shall wait, keeping themselves apart, three (monthly) courses. And it is not lawful for them that they should conceal that which Allah hath created in their wombs if they are believers in Allah and the Last Day. And their husbands would do better to take them back in that case if they desire a reconciliation. And they (women) have rights similar to those (of men) over them in kindness, and men are a degree above them. Allah is Mighty, Wise.

    M.H. Shakir:
    And the divorced women should keep themselves in waiting for three courses; and it is not lawful for them that they should conceal what Allah has created in their wombs, if they believe in Allah and the last day; and their husbands have a better right to take them back in the meanwhile if they wish for reconciliation; and they have rights similar to those against them in a just manner, and the men are a degree above them, and Allah is Mighty, Wise.

    2) The whole point of this volume was Maududi's commentary not his translation. It might be the case that Maududi didn't translate the verse himself.

    3) With regards to the actual verse, the phrase men are a degree over women is refering to the fact that in Islam husbands must provide for their families including their wife. The wife may still work but the husband cannot ask for his wife's money but she has a right to ask for money from him. This is evident from hadith and from other verses in the Qur'an.



    You really show you naivety with regards to you knowledge of Islam by quoting this verse. Many verses of the Qur'an require extensive analysis to get a full understanding of the what they mean and cannot as you're trying to do be looked at at face value. Here is full commentary on that one verse, see how long it is? I will summurise some of the points for you:

    1) Full verse:

    "Men are (meant to be righteous and kind) guardians of women because God has favored some more than others and because they (i.e. men) spend out of their wealth. (In their turn) righteous women are (meant to be) devoted and to guard what God has (willed to be) guarded even though out of sight (of the husband). As for those (women) on whose part you fear ill-will and nasty conduct, admonish them (first), (next) separate them in beds (and last) beat them. But if they obey you, then seek nothing against them. Behold, God is most high and great. (4:34)

    2) The verse is talking about bad conduct from the wife against the husband which intentionally annoys him and damages the relationship between them. It highlights punishments against the wife for doing such deeds. First admonish, verbally tell the wife that the act in question is annoying or hurtful. Next seperate in bed in order for each partner to calm down and evaluate the situation and so that the wife understands the magnitude of the problem. After all of that the wife continues to harass her husband, "beat" the wife. Now here is where the West projects its own insecruities on Muslims and assumes that this means vicious assualt. In actual fact it is mentioned in Hadith (AFAIK) that "beating" should be done with a miswaak (twig), that it should not leave marks, that it should not be on the face and that it should not be excessive. The miswaak is a small twig used to clean teeth in Arab culture, here are some pics:




    The miswaak is typically a few inches in length and flexiable. "Beating" by this feels more like a small insect bite for a few minutes, the pain quickly goes away. To prove the point I got the hardest, longest and narrowest miswaak I could find and hit myself as hard as I could (multiple times) on the soft part of my forearm. It hurt a bit but the pain quickly went although I hit myself too hard as I left a mark. It seems that this "beating" is more symbolic than actually wanting to cause harm.

    3) If any party be it the man or the women feel that they've been wronged, they can file for divorce. However, it seems that the spirit of the verse is that disapprovement can be expressed in a gradual manner in order to address disputes and avoid divorce.
    oh I see, its out of context and the translation is wrong? I question the validity of your quotations.

    I would just like to ask, where does the 'stereotypical' view of Islam come from then? (note: the typical thing to say now is that it is a 'conspiracy' by the media, or from people who havn't read all seven translations of the quran).
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    Yes I'am immature right? As I'm the one who wants to deport all Muslims regardless of status, contribution to Britain etc. and gas those who resist. Let me inform you of the consequences of this:

    Complete economic collapse not just due to a load of the labour force leaving but also due to the more civilised nations cutting ties/ UN sanctions etc.

    Complete military collapse as you're kicked out of NATO, unable to buy weapons from other countries due to sanctions.

    Massive social unrest/unemploment/inflation due to the first factor especially and mass protests from decent people who do not want the holocaust repeated.

    etc. etc. etc.

    This begs the question: Why not just gas you and avoid a potential genocide?
    bold: because I'd prefer to gas extreme muslims, and prevent many homocides in future.
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    I agree with that tbh.
    yeah, you can manipulate what I say in my quotes, but as I said before, no metter how many of you try to shut me up, I will never shut up, or no matter how many of you ry to turn my attention on walls of text, even though I'm asking simple questions, its pathetic, and typical.
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    Excellent and ludicrously sophisticated, well formed reponse to that idiot :yy:. By the way I think all Europeans should be chucked into the sea and all who resist should be gassed. After all who else brought about 2 huge World Wars, nuclear weapons, colonisation, killed thousands of innocents in Iraq and Afghanistan and pretty much funded the mujahideen who became the "Muslim" terrorists who you now so lovingly describe. :rolleyes:
    hahaha, I don't care about looking sophisticated. What I care about is getting streight answers. Now I have before asked for quotes and have waited 3 weeks without receiving them, another muslim thread comes up and I comment on it, and then because you lot don't like the truth (and people waking up to it, BNP now in europe etc) in my sig' you then try to make me look a little stupid because I'm not reading through the only replies I get which are walls of text.

    Qur'an: 9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

    (I bet its out of context, right)

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/art..._woman_as.html

    I won't post other stories I've found, like "women gets 101 lashings because she was raped" and "christian teacher gets thrown out of school because muslim children want to be suicide bombers" etc, because there have already been thread(s) about them.
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    (Original post by mathperson)
    bold: because I'd prefer to gas extreme muslims, and prevent many homocides in future.
    Backing away now huh? You definitely said you wanted to kick all Muslims out and gas the ones who resisted, definitely not mentioning whether the gassed ones would be extremist or whatever. You're encouraging genocide and the consequences would be disastrous not just for Britain but also globally. Maybe if you'd actually read my last post and answered it fully you might understand.
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    (Original post by mathperson)
    oh I see, its out of context and the translation is wrong? I question the validity of your quotations.
    You question the validity of the most widely used translations in the Muslim world? :lolwut:

    Be honest, did you even the read the post? I'll respond to any critique with regards to my post not some drivel intended to confuse the issue.


    (Original post by mathperson)
    I would just like to ask, where does the 'stereotypical' view of Islam come from then? (note: the typical thing to say now is that it is a 'conspiracy' by the media, or from people who havn't read all seven translations of the quran).
    What does this have to do with my post?
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    (Original post by mathperson)
    Qur'an: 9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

    (I bet its out of context, right).
    I responded to this already. It's about actually reading two verse and understanding what the history behind the verse is. It's worse than being out of context, it's been robbed of most of its meaning.

    (Original post by mathperson)
    http://www.associatedcontent.com/art..._woman_as.html

    I won't post other stories I've found, like "women gets 101 lashings because she was raped" and "christian teacher gets thrown out of school because muslim children want to be suicide bombers" etc, because there have already been thread(s) about them.
    What?:confused:
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    (Original post by mathperson)
    yeah, you can manipulate what I say in my quotes, but as I said before, no metter how many of you try to shut me up, I will never shut up, or no matter how many of you ry to turn my attention on walls of text, even though I'm asking simple questions, its pathetic, and typical.
    You're not asking sincere questions and most of the time you're not even asking question just posting the same verses over and over again. A wall of text is needed to gain a correct understanding. You want us to take verses at face value but this won't gain you a good understanding because the verse aren't meant to stand alone.
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    (Original post by mathperson)
    hahaha, I don't care about looking sophisticated. What I care about is getting streight answers. Now I have before asked for quotes and have waited 3 weeks without receiving them, another muslim thread comes up and I comment on it, and then because you lot don't like the truth (and people waking up to it, BNP now in europe etc) in my sig' you then try to make me look a little stupid because I'm not reading through the only replies I get which are walls of text.

    Qur'an: 9:5 "Fight and kill the disbelievers wherever you find them, take them captive, harass them, lie in wait and ambush them using every stratagem of war."

    (I bet its out of context, right)

    http://www.associatedcontent.com/art..._woman_as.html

    I won't post other stories I've found, like "women gets 101 lashings because she was raped" and "christian teacher gets thrown out of school because muslim children want to be suicide bombers" etc, because there have already been thread(s) about them.
    The lashings have nothing to do with Islam and neither does suicide bombing. If you kill an innocent or commit suicide it's a long sentence in hell. In times of war, you can't kill innocent men, any women and any children and can't do anything that puts them in harms way. Maybe a bit of resereach before you come barking back?

    And yes the quote is out of context. It was given in a times of war when the Muslims were struggling to survive and the only way to do so was to kill their enemies whom they called "disbelievers"..

    Reply to ALL of my post, you miss out most of it and then come back saying the same thing that I have already explained.
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    (Original post by Inzamam99)
    Backing away now huh? You definitely said you wanted to kick all Muslims out and gas the ones who resisted, definitely not mentioning whether the gassed ones would be extremist or whatever. You're encouraging genocide and the consequences would be disastrous not just for Britain but also globally. Maybe if you'd actually read my last post and answered it fully you might understand.
    You wish

    I'm encouraging it in order to make people feel safer from muslim extremists in the long run (9/11, 7/7, etc etc).
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    (Original post by Sakujo)
    You question the validity of the most widely used translations in the Muslim world? :lolwut:

    Be honest, did you even the read the post? I'll respond to any critique with regards to my post not some drivel intended to confuse the issue.




    What does this have to do with my post?
    using your same reasoning, I shall not reply to your posts anymore, you can interpret that how you like
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    (Original post by Sakujo)
    I responded to this already. It's about actually reading two verse and understanding what the history behind the verse is. It's worse than being out of context, it's been robbed of most of its meaning.



    What?:confused:
    Oh I see so its not just out of context, ... lol

    then re-read what I said
 
 
 
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