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    (Original post by touchofclass)

    Moans about the problems in Britain are fine if that's what floats your boat, but sometimes people need to get a grip and a sense of perspective if they're going to make ridiculous statements such as this one:
    It's a sense of perspective that has led to me this opinion, maybe you havn't seen enough of the world to know...but relative to many other countries the UK is in complete shambles. You have the right to dismiss my statement (an opinion) and I equally have the right to dismiss yours. Unlike you I'm able to accept the fact that different people have different opinions, which is why I havn't really bothered to start dismissing all the posts that differ from mine.

    Perhaps I just have high standards or expect too much from a country, perhaps you just have low standards or expect too little...I'm unimpressed where as you think the UK is in a pretty ok state. Each to their own.
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    I wish I had the rep power to zap the OP's red squares away. I agree with him 100%. I love England, there's nowhere else in the world I'd rather be born or live in, yeah it does have it's faults but in comparison to a lot of other countries in the world, it isn't anywhere near as bad as some people (especially the older generation and the ultra-paranoid nationalists) love to keep saying it is.

    People who say this country is **** or whatever are usually people who are doing next to nothing to attempt to improve it. They'ed moan if this country had no major problems with it at all, so I just dismiss them and move on.
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    (Original post by touchofclass)
    Ah so you are a head in the clouds imperialist.

    You do realise that in terms of quality of life, 21st century Britain is lightyears ahead of 19th century? Would your pride in the empire really console you as your life was ravaged by disease and poverty?
    Ah so you are a head in the ass cretin.

    Poor you, you really don't have anything better to do, do you?
    You do realise that in terms of quality of life, 21st century ethiopia is lightyears ahead of 19th century ethiopia? Is that enough grounds to say it's in decent shape? It's all relative, like you said..have a sense of perspective.
    The improvement in quality of life has for just about every country improved over the century, it's the natural trend in the development of mankind.

    In relative terms though, Britain has slipped from being one of the most advanced and prosperous nations (of its time) to a lowly 20 something in the world (statistically).
    If you think the way to judge the human development index of a country is by comparing it to what it was a century back then you're quite foolish.
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    Depends which foreign countries you are comparing us too.

    Also, despite a high GDP Britain is way down the list in terms of the quality of life stats - obesity, teen pregs, drugs, stabbings etc...
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    I think a lot of people forget that life in the 'good old days' was, for the majority of the population, quite frankly a misery. This is especially the case from about 1750 onwards, when the Industrial Revolution began to take hold. Hundreds upon thousands of people moved into the cities, and lived at the complete mercy of their landlords in rat-infested, cholera & typhoid-ridden slums filled with violent crime, starvation, lack of education, very little sanitation... in a society where class divides were far stricter than today, women were seen as literally inferior to men in nearly every respect, and only a small minority of men had the vote, let alone any of the women.

    Even back in Early Modern times, and Medieval times before that, life was extremely hard for all but the rich and the smaller landowners/middle class. Imagine a world where something as small as an infected tooth can end up killing you, because there is no penicillin, painkillers or any drugs whatsoever apart from herbal ones; a world where thousands of things we take for granted nowadays have not yet been invented; where a life of back-breaking physical work is entirely the norm; where your life expectancy is about half of what it is today...

    Oh, and teenage gangs have been running riot for centuries. In Medieval and Early Modern times it was gangs of apprentices, all young men or what we would call teenagers today. They were known for wearing fancy clothes, gambling, drinking, brawling, womanising and carrying knives, so much so that they were banned several times from most of these activities because society was so shocked by their actions. In the eighteenth and nineteenth centuries, and even the first couple of decades in the twentieth century, there were hundreds of thousands of homeless street children & young people who had to turn to crime just to survive (pickpocketing, burglary, theft, mugging.) Even in the 1950s and 60s there were in turn the Teddy Boys, the Mods & the Rockers, and then there were the punks, the skinheads, and now chavs...
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    It's the weather.

    And the politics.
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    We expect a particular standard which just happens to be much higher than most other countries. As we expect this standard anything which falls below it, even if it's still pretty great, isn't good enough. Also, because moaning is fun sometimes?!
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    'cause that's what we do? that's why we're called british! 'cause we moan about everything lol
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    (Original post by Playboy King)
    You do realise that in terms of quality of life, 21st century ethiopia is lightyears ahead of 19th century ethiopia? Is that enough grounds to say it's in decent shape?

    It's all relative, like you said..have a sense of perspective.
    The improvement in quality of life has for just about every country improved over the century, it's the natural trend in the development of mankind.
    No you misunderstand me. You said Britain is not as good as it used to be, I asked you when that was, and you said in the 1800s.

    So naturally I pointed out it wasn't better in the 1800s. Quality of life is better now than it's ever been, yet people always seem to say it's getting worse. It quite clearly isn't.

    (Original post by Playboy King)
    In relative terms though, Britain has slipped from being one of the most advanced and prosperous nations (of its time) to a lowly 20 something in the world (statistically).
    What exactly do you want from Britain? To be a brutal colonial power again? We have the 6th largest GDP in the world yet you somehow say we're 'deprived'.
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    (Original post by FormerlyHistoryStudent)
    Yeah, so rubbish that in the last decade we've finally won not one but two Ashes series, come 4th in the medals table at the last Olympics (athletics, rowing, cycling, boxing, sailing, equestrian sport, swimming even...), won the rugby world cup, had Britons win the last two F1 drivers' championships, had some notable boxing victories...
    Ok, I should have changed "rubbish at sports" to "not the best at sports"
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    People don't realise how good they have it until they step outside of the Western World.

    I love Europe
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    (Original post by Playboy King)
    1800s, back when we used to rule the nations of the world :cool: which ofcourse led to a century of uninterrupted global trade dominance. The British empire ruled 1/4 of the world's population, that's power beyond all proportions. From a political/economic perspective Britain was thriving :sogood:
    From an individualistic point of view: Oh yes those days, when the majority of people lived in dreadful poverty. Im studying this period for my historical enquiry and from what I have found, conditions were terrible unless you made up that minority of middle or upper class individuals. In this sense we have come a long way. Very few of us are subjected to such horrendous living conditions. I think for many of us on this forum, the worst thing we have to live with is that ****** JLS music our sisters pump out all the time. Imagine being 9 years old and being forced to sleep amongst the dead as a punishment for wetting yourself?

    As torturous as it is, i presume many of us would prefer the JLS music
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    (Original post by az1992)
    well surely that can be interpreted that all the foreigners are doing all the crap jobs so we dont have to. They are desperate to get to the reduced section because they have very little money from their badly paid jobs.

    I have actually been to Krakow in Poland, Marmaris in Turkey and Rome in Italy to find signs in English? Although I like the fact that you love this country, I feel our opinions on immigration differ. I believe that despite being one of the first european countries to encourage immigration to our country in the 20th century, we actually have a smaller amount of immigrants then say, spain.
    i think you are unaware of the real problem this country is experiencing as a result of polish families moving to this county and giving birth here leading to a huge increase in benefit claims. they dont all just come here and work jobs we dont want, because im certain that with the unemployment we currently have those jobs will be filled with british workers. its not like they are here to work and contribute to the country, thay is completely wrong. it was only 6 months ago when i left college that i was unemployed for a short while and the benefit office was full of just polish people. if you dont believe me, phone your local council and ask for some benefit stats. this is so not my style to debate my opinion like this, if you cant see my arguement then lets just agree to disagree. i am not in anyway against immigration as i believe and happy country is an accepting country, i just think that those that are allowed to entry the country should not be entitled to ANY benefits (only those which they have paid into eg NI contributions) and that they should be skilled workers as we have our own problems to deal with with unemployment. we should take a leaf out of canada, new zealand and austrailas book as they do just that-grant entry to only skilled workers.
    oh and the reason that the signs over there are in english is NOT becuase of their large number of english speaking population, its becuase a great source of their income is from english speaking tourists!!!!
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    (Original post by Playboy King)
    It's the British thing to do! We love to complain
    Lately it's justified though, this country is nowhere near as good as it used to be...and I now (unfortunately) class it as a deprived country, not a prosperous one. I've been to places that make coming back to the UK feel like a return to a third world nation.
    .
    Wah? have you actually been abroad? having been to 8 different countries in Europe I would say the complete opposite. Even Bologna, a rich city full of culture, seemed to have more deprived buildings once you got out the city center then London does.

    Are you sure you know what a third world nation is? In fact the more even distribution of wealth has led to a large decrease in poverty within the last 2 centuries.

    The places in which you benchmarked against Britain to make it seem Third World must have been Dubai and Shanghai or somewhere. Is it also possible that when you visited these places, you did not venture much out of the main centre of the city in which you were staying?

    The same can be said for London, many internationals can not believe that London has a deprived side to it just as many of us find the same hard to believe about Paris.
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    (Original post by uni4med)
    i think you are unaware of the real problem this country is experiencing as a result of polish families moving to this county and giving birth here leading to a huge increase in benefit claims. they dont all just come here and work jobs we dont want, because im certain that with the unemployment we currently have those jobs will be filled with british workers. its not like they are here to work and contribute to the country, thay is completely wrong. it was only 6 months ago when i left college that i was unemployed for a short while and the benefit office was full of just polish people. if you dont believe me, phone your local council and ask for some benefit stats. this is so not my style to debate my opinion like this, if you cant see my arguement then lets just agree to disagree. i am not in anyway against immigration as i believe and happy country is an accepting country, i just think that those that are allowed to entry the country should not be entitled to ANY benefits (only those which they have paid into eg NI contributions) and that they should be skilled workers as we have our own problems to deal with with unemployment. we should take a leaf out of canada, new zealand and austrailas book as they do just that-grant entry to only skilled workers.
    oh and the reason that the signs over there are in english is NOT becuase of their large number of english speaking population, its becuase a great source of their income is from english speaking tourists!!!!
    erm well my family has first hand expirience of this. My dad, despite bringing reportedly a couple of million pounds into the economy, was rejected benefits after falling on hard times. he did describe to me however, that immigrants applying for benefits were sidelined for the type of chavvy British families who had children before they were 18.

    I think maybe you need to phone up your local council and you will see that it is these unmotivated, goalless British people who sponge of the state and not polish people. I have seen polish people as cleaners, mcdonalds workers and kfc, and of course plumbers and builders but never any decent job.

    You also highlight your own naivety by focusing purely on Poles. Are YOU not aware that Eastern Europe is not composed Primarily of polish people but also of the baltic states, romania etc who also emigrate here.

    I am confused also as to why people moan about Polish people stealing jobs yet still choose a polish plumber or builder in times of need because they are cheaper?
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    (Original post by az1992)
    erm well my family has first hand expirience of this. My dad, despite bringing reportedly a couple of million pounds into the economy, was rejected benefits after falling on hard times. he did describe to me however, that immigrants applying for benefits were sidelined for the type of chavvy British families who had children before they were 18.

    I think maybe you need to phone up your local council and you will see that it is these unmotivated, goalless British people who sponge of the state and not polish people. I have seen polish people as cleaners, mcdonalds workers and kfc, and of course plumbers and builders but never any decent job.
    You also highlight your own naivety by focusing purely on Poles. Are YOU not aware that Eastern Europe is not composed Primarily of polish people but also of the baltic states, romania etc who also emigrate here.

    I am confused also as to why people moan about Polish people stealing jobs yet still choose a polish plumber or builder in times of need because they are cheaper?
    you think that plumbers and builders are not decent jobs???? thats my family background and that is what is considered a skilled worker!!! i welcome these type of people into the country!! and yes we have a huge problem with lazy brits and thats why im arguing that we got enough problems with our own citizens that we have to support. theres nothing that can be done about that other than encouraging them to work! the point is, if they wouldnt get handouts from their own government, then they certainly shouldnt from ours!! i'm done with this debate because you clearly cant see any other persons point of view as you have made a point of trying to put lots of thread posts in there place! everyone here has there own opinion, mainly steming from personal experiences and they are entitled to those opinions and yours has no superiority! oh and i've worked in macdonalds and so has my boyfriend! so dont try pulling that jobs people dont want crap becuase if i was to lose my job i would work there again no problem.
    and you have the cheek to call me naive when i am simply using polish as an example as it is a fact that the vast majority of migrant movement into england comes from poland. look it up yourself if you dont believe me. stop trying to tell people what they should believe or think.
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    (Original post by az1992)
    We are one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Many of us have access to many luxuries such as computers, decent washing facillities, books, Televisions, social amneties and so on. We have a long, proud history. Tourists from all over flock to our shores to see such sights as Buckingham Palace, The houses of Parliament etc all signs of our rich culture. We live in a country where extreme forms of poverty are restricted to an unfortunate few, and the majority of poorer people have access to social help.

    Compared to other countries, we have unprecedented amount of say in our Governments runnings. People are not killed or imprisoned for having socially deviant views. The list goes on, my point is with all this, why do people insist on consistantly searching for negative aspects of our country to moan about? Immigration, knife crime, the governments corrupt, kids are getting ruder, its dangerous to even go out side, blah blah blah blah!

    There are people who live by picking scraps of metal out of land fill sites and yet some of us sit at our computers with our central heated houses or flats moaning about the abysmal state of life today!? How does this work?

    I guess I just thought I'd add perspectove, comment.......
    This. :yes: And yes there are plenty of things we can improve on but some of you speak as if progress is impossible and things will never get better. It is exactly that attitude that is getting us into this mess in the first place. Yes we are British and we like to complain, but a little optimism never hurt anyone.
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    Because people want to moan about this country. Not everyone feels the same way as you do.
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    (Original post by uni4med)
    you think that plumbers and builders are not decent jobs???? thats my family background and that is what is considered a skilled worker!!! i welcome these type of people into the country!! and yes we have a huge problem with lazy brits and thats why im arguing that we got enough problems with our own citizens that we have to support. theres nothing that can be done about that other than encouraging them to work! the point is, if they wouldnt get handouts from their own government, then they certainly shouldnt from ours!! i'm done with this debate because you clearly cant see any other persons point of view as you have made a point of trying to put lots of thread posts in there place! everyone here has there own opinion, mainly steming from personal experiences and they are entitled to those opinions and yours has no superiority! oh and i've worked in macdonalds and so has my boyfriend! so dont try pulling that jobs people dont want crap becuase if i was to lose my job i would work there again no problem.
    and you have the cheek to call me naive when i am simply using polish as an example as it is a fact that the vast majority of migrant movement into england comes from poland. look it up yourself if you dont believe me. stop trying to tell people what they should believe or think.
    well i would calm yourself slightly as this is only the internet.

    however....,
    indeed everyone is entitled to their opinion, however opinion is based on something usually whether it be what others in influential positions say or interpretation from experience.

    your opinion seems to be based on a mixture of observations and misguidance. I have friends whose relatives emigrated to this country
    and as far as I am aware, still pay varies taxes if they have a job. Therefore it is only the unemployed migrants who sponge of the state and I have check and statistically there are few.

    I am able to look at other peoples perspectives and that is what enabled me to break free of this "our country is ****** and corrupt" view point that many of us have. However, stating that this country is rubbish and that it is because of immigrants largely is statistically misguided.

    (Original post by nativeLondoner)
    Depends which foreign countries you are comparing us too.

    Also, despite a high GDP Britain is way down the list in terms of the quality of life stats - obesity, teen pregs, drugs, stabbings etc...
    Actually for violence we are further down then countries such as Portugal which is surprising. Teenage pregnancies according to the economist are down compared to what they used to be. Drugs, fair play, although bar coke, most of our drug use is marijuana which has far less short term health implications then other drugs.

    (Original post by Dude Where's My Username)
    I wish I had the rep power to zap the OP's red squares away. I agree with him 100%. I love England, there's nowhere else in the world I'd rather be born or live in, yeah it does have it's faults but in comparison to a lot of other countries in the world, it isn't anywhere near as bad as some people (especially the older generation and the ultra-paranoid nationalists) love to keep saying it is.
    ha, thank you, it is good to get some positive feedback every now and
    then, Makes a nice change from neg rep with comments such as "you liberal, english value hating hippy" ?!

    Every generation moans about the new generation and i think alot of kids now are more likely to repeat what their parents say.
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    (Original post by az1992)



    Actually for violence we are further down then countries such as Portugal which is surprising. Teenage pregnancies according to the economist are down compared to what they used to be. Drugs, fair play, although bar coke, most of our drug use is marijuana which has far less short term health implications then other drugs.

    What sort of violence...
 
 
 
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