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Why does everyone moan about this country? watch

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    Everything is relative...
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    Apart from queuing, moaning is what we are best at.

    Just because other countries are worse off, doesn't mean we can't moan and complain.
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    (Original post by touchofclass)
    No you misunderstand me. You said Britain is not as good as it used to be, I asked you when that was, and you said in the 1800s.

    So naturally I pointed out it wasn't better in the 1800s. Quality of life is better now than it's ever been, yet people always seem to say it's getting worse. It quite clearly isn't.



    What exactly do you want from Britain? To be a brutal colonial power again? We have the 6th largest GDP in the world yet you somehow say we're 'deprived'.
    Relative to many other nations in the world, Britain was one of if not the best in the 1800s. In those terms, Britain was better. Ofcourse, living in the 21st century it's easy to say that quality of life is better...but those who lived in 18th/19th century Britain at the time people were aware their living in one of the most prosperous and powerful nations on the planet, and genuinely felt privileged to live here.

    In comparison, disregarding the improvement in quality of life over the century (considering it has been the case for the whole world) the Brits of the 21st century are extremely unsatisfied with the nation and the number leaving the country has been greater than ever. In the perspective of a civilian and their satisfaction, it is getting worse. Why? because compared to other parts of the world we're slipping down. You say we're not 'deprived', I guess that is a subjective matter. You probably think about all the lesser countries and then look at Britain as not so bad. Perhaps that's indicative of your approach and mentality in life, to compare yourself to average/mediocre measures and convince yourself you're not so bad. I on the other hand like to compare it to the best, and certainly compared to the best Britain is miles off. I compare it to the best because at one point we were the best, I look at the glass half empty where as you look at it half full.

    Don't say Britain's improved in quality of life as if it's some sort of achievement, it's nothing but a natural trend in the progression over the century. I don't think there's any country on the planet that is worse of now in terms of quality of life than it was a century or two ago. Progression in technology, the planet's infrastructure and society as a whole will obviously over time will make for an improvement.

    Are you seriously going to bring GDP into this? Now I definately know you havn't a clue about what you're talking about. If you think GDP is an indication of the state of a nation, then let's talk about China, Russia, Brazil, India and Mexico all of whom are well into the top 15 of the world. Does this mean to say they're the most prosperous nations? Hardly. You should realise the most prosperous nations are not those that have the largest GDP, but those that have that wealth distributed amongst its population (i.e. GDP per capita, even though this index isn't always indicative of the true state).

    Anyway, I say it is deprived, as a Briton living here all my life I have the right to cast that judgement....I'm not saying it's fact, merely my opinion. You say it isn't deprived, fair play to you, that's your right. Usually I'm open to differing opinions and that's the beauty of seeing things from others' perspective, but when people start nitpicking every single line and try to totally dismiss mine it just gets petty.
    You say it's not deprived, I accept that as your opinion, I said it is...I hope you can accept mine.
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    (Original post by az1992)
    Wah? have you actually been abroad? having been to 8 different countries in Europe I would say the complete opposite. Even Bologna, a rich city full of culture, seemed to have more deprived buildings once you got out the city center then London does.

    Are you sure you know what a third world nation is? In fact the more even distribution of wealth has led to a large decrease in poverty within the last 2 centuries.

    The places in which you benchmarked against Britain to make it seem Third World must have been Dubai and Shanghai or somewhere. Is it also possible that when you visited these places, you did not venture much out of the main centre of the city in which you were staying?

    The same can be said for London, many internationals can not believe that London has a deprived side to it just as many of us find the same hard to believe about Paris.
    :clap2: you've been to 8 countries!
    Seriously though, do you actually expect me to take you seriously after what you just wrote? :dry: Bologna has deprived buildings? :shock: no way :zomg: I could never have believed that. Also 'rich in culture' means jack all :dry: That is used for countries who aren't actually rich, so they're 'rich in culture' :rolleyes:

    That was the most daft comparison ever, Bologna has more deprived buildings than London!? as if it to imply Bologna is far superior to London and on paper should not have more deprived areas? I think it's fair to say, somebody who judges the prosperity of a place by the physical appearance of the buildings is pretty flawed in their method of judgement.

    You may find it hard to believe about Paris, although that's surprising considering your extensive travel portfolio :rolleyes: Eight countries isn't much at all, especially if it's predominantly in Europe :facepalm: at least not enough to know the world.
    Have you been to Switzerland, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Finland? If you do, try looking beyond the buildings' appearances and actually get to know their economy, their public services, their education/health care systems, their welfare systems and all the other aspects of society that make for prosperous living for its residents.

    I actually feel insulted that this is the best you could come up with, step up your game dude...talking about how buildings look is just not good enough.
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    (Original post by Playboy King)
    Relative to many other nations in the world, Britain was one of if not the best in the 1800s. In those terms, Britain was better. Ofcourse, living in the 21st century it's easy to say that quality of life is better...but those who lived in 18th/19th century Britain at the time people were aware their living in one of the most prosperous and powerful nations on the planet, and genuinely felt privileged to live here.

    In comparison, disregarding the improvement in quality of life over the century (considering it has been the case for the whole world) the Brits of the 21st century are extremely unsatisfied with the nation and the number leaving the country has been greater than ever. In the perspective of a civilian and their satisfaction, it is getting worse. Why? because compared to other parts of the world we're slipping down. You say we're not 'deprived', I guess that is a subjective matter. You probably think about all the lesser countries and then look at Britain as not so bad.
    We're 'slipping down' because we're a nation of only 60 million people with scant industry and resources, who are competing with emerging global powers 20 times our size such as India and China. It's actually pretty impressive we still have the power that we do.

    (Original post by Playboy King)
    Are you seriously going to bring GDP into this? Now I definitely know you havn't a clue about what you're talking about. If you think GDP is an indication of the state of a nation, then let's talk about China, Russia, Brazil, India and Mexico all of whom are well into the top 15 of the world. Does this mean to say they're the most prosperous nations? Hardly. You should realise the most prosperous nations are not those that have the largest GDP, but those that have that wealth distributed amongst its population (i.e. GDP per capita, even though this index isn't always indicative of the true state).
    No exactly it isn't a good indicator of quality of life, which reinforces my point. GDP shows global economic prestige etc. that you seem to think was and is so important, but that means nothing if the citizens do not have a good general quality of life.

    In the wondrous days of empire you speak of, we may have had a strong global position, but Britain wasn't a particularly great place to live. See FHS's excellent post for a more detailed breakdown of this:

    (Original post by FormerlyHistoryStudent)
    I think a lot of people forget that life in the 'good old days' was, for the majority of the population, quite frankly a misery. This is especially the case from about 1750 onwards, when the Industrial Revolution began to take hold. Hundreds upon thousands of people moved into the cities, and lived at the complete mercy of their landlords in rat-infested, cholera & typhoid-ridden slums filled with violent crime, starvation, lack of education, very little sanitation... in a society where class divides were far stricter than today, women were seen as literally inferior to men in nearly every respect, and only a small minority of men had the vote, let alone any of the women.
    You seem to put a lot of stall by the idea "that people were aware their living in one of the most prosperous and powerful nations on the planet, and genuinely felt privileged to live here" when really little of that wealth translated to the majority of the population, and I doubt some sort of abstract pride in the empire was enough to override how pretty shoddy most people's lives were.

    (Original post by Playboy King)
    Anyway, I say it is deprived, as a Briton living here all my life I have the right to cast that judgement....I'm not saying it's fact, merely my opinion. You say it isn't deprived, fair play to you, that's your right. Usually I'm open to differing opinions and that's the beauty of seeing things from others' perspective, but when people start nitpicking every single line and try to totally dismiss mine it just gets petty.
    You say it's not deprived, I accept that as your opinion, I said it is...I hope you can accept mine.
    Well we could take that route, but it's pretty boring :p: TSR would have to shut down if no one could argue opinions
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    (Original post by touchofclass)
    Well we could take that route, but it's pretty boring :p: TSR would have to shut down if no one could argue opinions
    Well, you must appreciate that not all of us have so much time on our hands and have the ability to be so petty. There are so many contradictions in what you just wrote I havn't got enough time or energy to exploit them all. So, are you done? or would you like to ramble on some more?
    :yawn:
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    Because no matter what position people are in, they want something better and more efficient - which is quite right. Yes, relative to the vast majority of other countries we are a rich, prosperous nation. But there is a general consensus that a lot of things have or are going wrong with this country and that it could be a lot better.
    I fall into this category. Society and community spirit has gone downhill (even in my lifetime), the government is woefully inefficient in just about everything that it does, and our economy is on the rocks. Applying the "shy bairns get nowt" proverb to the country as a whole, if we all just accepted how the country is (imperfect, inefficient), nothing would change and we'd go nowhere. If moaning, complaining and kicking up a fuss is the only way to get through to the government, I'm quite happy to continue doing it.
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    [QUOTE=az1992]well i would calm yourself slightly as this is only the internet.

    however....,
    indeed everyone is entitled to their opinion, however opinion is based on something usually whether it be what others in influential positions say or interpretation from experience.

    your opinion seems to be based on a mixture of observations and misguidance. I have friends whose relatives emigrated to this country
    and as far as I am aware, still pay varies taxes if they have a job. Therefore it is only the unemployed migrants who sponge of the state and I have check and statistically there are few.

    I am able to look at other peoples perspectives and that is what enabled me to break free of this "our country is ****** and corrupt" view point that many of us have. However, stating that this country is rubbish and that it is because of immigrants largely is statistically misguided.QUOTE]

    well maye you need to look and statistics for the number of babies born every year to mothers from another country. and yes your friends family should pay taxes if they work and live here and use the services provided by this country (eg nhs). as for being misguided, i believe the only person to guide my opinion is myself, and my opinion is based on my medical geography background and my own personal experiences. i think your right, this is just the internet, and im happy to accept that your opinion, however much i disagree with it, is totally your own and i respect that.
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    (Original post by az1992)
    if we do not like something we can vote. We can also start pressure groups to try and get change. Yes this is limited, but surely far greater say in government goings on compared to the rest of the world?
    When you say what it consists of you can see just how pathetic it really is. Is that what people are so proud of and what they try to enforce on other nations. Its just an appealing slogan that people rally behind like sheep. Freedom, democracy, liberty. What a fraud.

    If you dont like something you have to wait 4 years and by then its already been implemented.
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    (Original post by roots)
    When you say what it consists of you can see just how pathetic it really is. Is that what people are so proud of and what they try to enforce on other nations. Its just an appealing slogan that people rally behind like sheep. Freedom, democracy, liberty. What a fraud.

    If you dont like something you have to wait 4 years and by then its already been implemented.
    Nice to see someone arguing from another perspective for once. I mean i actually disagree with you but you present a delightful change from the view that Islam and communists try and force their ideology on the rest of the world.

    You make some decent points. Since reading text on McCarthyism, I see democracy as an over-hyped idea. All this stuff about liberty and what not. No-one is truly free. Not that I would want to but I am not free to incite death threats against others and I am not able to legally skip school. So really freedom doesn't exist with democracy.

    However, I believe democracy distributes the power of the government slightly more. We are share holders and the Government are the Board of Directors. If they do something that pisses us off, we can cause aggravation and this stops them abusing their power for self interest at our cost.

    I don't doubt that there are some dodgy decisions that our government make and do without us knowing ie assassinations and all that conspiratorial stuff. But due to our power, these things are forced to happen behind scenes and are very limited compared to a dictatorship. If someone famous went and announced that they were communist and that Gordon Brown was a fag, then they are free to whereas in other countries, any critical comments lead to death or torture.

    Democracy is not perfect by all means and can be said to give some power to ignorant people who do not know what they are campaigning for. But it does give us a say in how the country is run, no matter how small that say is, it is still more then some other people get.
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    (Original post by az1992)
    We are one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Many of us have access to many luxuries such as computers, decent washing facillities, books, Televisions, social amneties and so on. We have a long, proud history. Tourists from all over flock to our shores to see such sights as Buckingham Palace, The houses of Parliament etc all signs of our rich culture. We live in a country where extreme forms of poverty are restricted to an unfortunate few, and the majority of poorer people have access to social help.

    Compared to other countries, we have unprecedented amount of say in our Governments runnings. People are not killed or imprisoned for having socially deviant views. The list goes on, my point is with all this, why do people insist on consistantly searching for negative aspects of our country to moan about? Immigration, knife crime, the governments corrupt, kids are getting ruder, its dangerous to even go out side, blah blah blah blah!

    There are people who live by picking scraps of metal out of land fill sites and yet some of us sit at our computers with our central heated houses or flats moaning about the abysmal state of life today!? How does this work?

    I guess I just thought I'd add perspectove, comment.......
    Because this country's going down the drain. Rich maybe, but that's only because we have to be rich or everyone would starve. When a country so developed as the UK goes into recession, the normal thing to do is cutback government spending etc. But the govt cant do that in this country, they have no choice but to continue spending and so they have borrowed masses of money and now we have a huge budget deficit of nearly £200bn.
    Quality of life isn't bad in this country, but is isnt nearly as good in comparison to other similarly developed countries, e.g. canada, australia, germany. The question is, why is britains life quality poor in comparison to these other countries, when they are similarly developed in economy etc?
    I wouldnt say tourists 'flock to our shores'. Yes, london attracts tourists but apart from that, the UK sees little tourism in comparison to France, germany, italy, and other EU countries.
    Yes, you are correct in saying we have an unprecedented amount of say in our governments runnings? Not working too well at the moment is it? The last major country to come out of recession and the worst recession was suffered by us. All the things you mentioned, e.g. knife crime etc. are prominent in our society.
    People are whining because things have gotten worse. It's not really a shock is it?
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    (Original post by dude55)
    Because this country's going down the drain. Rich maybe, but that's only because we have to be rich or everyone would starve. When a country so developed as the UK goes into recession, the normal thing to do is cutback government spending etc. But the govt cant do that in this country, they have no choice but to continue spending and so they have borrowed masses of money and now we have a huge budget deficit of nearly £200bn.
    Quality of life isn't bad in this country, but is isnt nearly as good in comparison to other similarly developed countries, e.g. canada, australia, germany. The question is, why is britains life quality poor in comparison to these other countries, when they are similarly developed in economy etc?
    I wouldnt say tourists 'flock to our shores'. Yes, london attracts tourists but apart from that, the UK sees little tourism in comparison to France, germany, italy, and other EU countries.
    Yes, you are correct in saying we have an unprecedented amount of say in our governments runnings? Not working too well at the moment is it? The last major country to come out of recession and the worst recession was suffered by us. All the things you mentioned, e.g. knife crime etc. are prominent in our society.
    People are whining because things have gotten worse. It's not really a shock is it?
    Actually cutting public spending is just one possible method out of many that economists have recently worked out would deepen Britains recession if it was done.

    You say it like we have imbeciles running our country. In fact many of these people are very very intelligent but have to cope with the constant moaning we all do. Everytime they implement legislation in which we have campaigned for, many others start pressure groups
    against it.

    Maybe we would be happier if we weren't so ungrateful. Most of us have food, a roof over our head, our loved ones, access to an education, relative safety. What else do we want? We have more then the necessities to live.

    London is by far one of the most vistied cities in the world due to its symbolic sites ie Buckingham Palace, Towers of London and its status as an economic powerhouse.

    I do not know where you get your info from but we are not the last major country to exit the recession nor were we the worse hit. Knife crime is not prominent in our society. 78 under 18s were murdered violently in 2008. This is very sad obviously and ideally it should be 0. However, considering there are at least 10-20 million under 18s in this country (thats a guess but im sure a close one). I fail to see how 78 (or less then that as some of those figures were beaten or gunned) amounts to a considerable amount of crime.

    Your obviously going on by whats on the news which is fair enough. I am very interested in the psychology behind crime and have been for a good few years. What I noticed was that for the last 6 years, under 18s murders have been at a steady and similar level. Yet in 2007, papers started to take an active interest in those knifed or gunned to death. Billy Cox, Eugene Attram etc. People suddenly got the impression that this had appeared from nowhere and the papers made out it was a crisis. Look it up, we have one of the lowest homicide rates of MEDC's.

    Obviously there is a reason why I questioned why all the moaning about this country. Its not because I am mentally deficient and unaware of all the hype around me. It is because I actually took the time to see what was actually happening and what was exaggerated to sell papers. I have yet to find a successful source of media that talks of all the happy things going on and that there is no major crisis going on.
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    yeah i agree with you, pisses me off so much, its like SHUT UP ***** NO ONE CARES
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    The UK takes things for granted, thety've got all these luxuries that 3rd world countries can only dream of. Yet people want more, more, more. What a ****** up country.
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    You should try living in another country. Luxuries are over rated.. i guess where you live is what you make of it..
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    Because the government are taking a good country and making it worse.

    Who needs sovereignty when you have the EU and the 'Liberal' Elite?
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    Crime is soaring, our streets in certain areas of this country are now, "no go" areas.

    On top of that, a slight scandal, would see our MPs resigning. It seem under this government, it has changed. Expenses, the recent attempt to hide information of torture, Big Brother society etc... where do we stop; no one has been held accountable.

    Plus we are behind every other country. Recently, this whole internet connection, debacle, we are number 20. Poland is ahead of us. Does it make sense?

    Our transport system is ****.
    We have ******* who are self proclaimed liberals.

    Now, we have the olympics to look forward to. It is in London, even though we have olympic standard facilities in other cities outside London, we still need to build new ones. I don't know why.

    We are wealthy nation, have we done anything right recently?

    Is it a great country? It was. Under this government, it has turned worse.
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    (Original post by az1992)
    We are one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Many of us have access to many luxuries such as computers, decent washing facillities, books, Televisions, social amneties and so on. We have a long, proud history. Tourists from all over flock to our shores to see such sights as Buckingham Palace, The houses of Parliament etc all signs of our rich culture. We live in a country where extreme forms of poverty are restricted to an unfortunate few, and the majority of poorer people have access to social help.

    Compared to other countries, we have unprecedented amount of say in our Governments runnings. People are not killed or imprisoned for having socially deviant views. The list goes on, my point is with all this, why do people insist on consistantly searching for negative aspects of our country to moan about? Immigration, knife crime, the governments corrupt, kids are getting ruder, its dangerous to even go out side, blah blah blah blah!

    There are people who live by picking scraps of metal out of land fill sites and yet some of us sit at our computers with our central heated houses or flats moaning about the abysmal state of life today!? How does this work?

    I guess I just thought I'd add perspectove, comment.......
    I can't really speak for everyone but for me one of the reasons I don't really find this country to be a (excuse my language) ******** is that when I came here, I was expecting everything to be exactly how you described it in your first paragraph. I come from a country that is thoroughly third world, but when I came here, I noticed that there wasn't really much of a difference between the UK and the part of Pakistan where I live(and this is why I can't speak for everyone). In fact, I'd go as far as to say, that a vast majority of stuff was better back home. I had access to everything back home that I have access to here, computers, fast internet, vastly superior cars to the ones commonly found here and bigger roads to drive them on (one lane on a freeway in Pakistan is the size of an entire British freeway), decent washing facilities, books, social amenities, in short, everything I have here. The food was better, a pack of Marlboro reds cost 45p, the cars were better, TV was better, we had all 4 seasons rather than different variations of winter all year long, there was sunlight, and as someone said on "Fawlty Towers, you could tan on the beach one day and drive up north to ski the next. Also, as far as I'm concerned, there was greater freedom of speech than there is here. Obviously someone coming from a different part of the same country might have a different view and that is to be expected considering that one is a developed country, the other isn't. but in general, I've had things better and easier back home than here and that is why I, as you say, moan about this country.
    PS. For the life of me, I can't see why anyone would come here as a tourist and why people are so proud of the history of this country which is basically one long story of going to other people's countries, colonizing them and practically raping the natives inside out.
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    (Original post by az1992)
    We are one of the wealthiest countries in the world. Many of us have access to many luxuries such as computers, decent washing facillities, books, Televisions, social amneties and so on. We have a long, proud history. Tourists from all over flock to our shores to see such sights as Buckingham Palace, The houses of Parliament etc all signs of our rich culture. We live in a country where extreme forms of poverty are restricted to an unfortunate few, and the majority of poorer people have access to social help.

    Compared to other countries, we have unprecedented amount of say in our Governments runnings. People are not killed or imprisoned for having socially deviant views. The list goes on, my point is with all this, why do people insist on consistantly searching for negative aspects of our country to moan about? Immigration, knife crime, the governments corrupt, kids are getting ruder, its dangerous to even go out side, blah blah blah blah!

    There are people who live by picking scraps of metal out of land fill sites and yet some of us sit at our computers with our central heated houses or flats moaning about the abysmal state of life today!? How does this work?

    I guess I just thought I'd add perspectove, comment.......
    That's debatable. :p:
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    To be fair I do think this country is in a bit of a state.
    Due to health reasons I decided to withdraw my UCAS application last year. I had five offers. This year, I have one (I know its something but it isn't where I want to go), even though I got 3 As. I worked so hard to get my grades despite my problems, and I know I'm not the only one who got good grades and can't get into uni. I can't get a job either, so when people say this country is out of its recession, naturally I feel rather cynical. A lot of good students are having the door slammed in their face, and it just seems so unfair - so much seems to have changed in a few years.
    Of course, we are lucky to be able to live the way we do, but Britain is not a third world country, so in the context of what this country is, I feel let down, and I'm sure other young people do too.
 
 
 
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