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    First ever post in student room, go me!

    @Steezy
    Just quickly on something you said before 'Everyone bases everything else on logic. But when it comes to religion it's faith?!' Id argue that most people dont base much of their life on reason or logic. You yourself said you drink because you like it, even if logically it doesnt make sense to do that to your body, and when talking about logic you have to look at how people deal with relationships and the idea of love, both in families and with partners, to see that logic doesnt apply to everything, whether religious or not. Thats how I see my faith, more in the area of love than the area of logic. If you want to argue Gods existence it can go on forever (I do Philosophy, trust me theres no set answers there lol)

    Anyway, back on topic, is Christianity in the UK dead? Not in my experience, although Im sure its still on the decline amongst young people. But I dont believe it will ever just 'die', people will always look for answers and Christianity for many answers a lot of questions and gives people peace, which is needed more than ever in our hectic world!
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    TSR Community Team
    (Original post by Steezy)
    This is what I'm asking, as I haven't seen any proof of this.

    So why exactly do you believe in God? Do you believe in evolution?
    Why not go to a church on a Sunday morning and see people going in? (I don't mean you have to go in yourself if you don't want to ). Not every church has large numbers of people, but many do.


    Why do I believe in God? Because the world doesn't make sense not to have a God and by background in maths and science can explain to my how the world works, but not why it works or how it came about. I don't buy the arguments that science explains away the need for the idea of a God either. If anything science explains to us just how miraculous the universe it and how unlikely it is to just puff in to existence in a cloud of smoke (or rather a big bang) with no input from anywhere as some people who say God doesn't exist expect us to believe.

    [Note - I'm not saying that the big bang didn't happen - in fact I think it's the mostly likely explanaition of how the universe was created, but it just doesn't explain why it happened and science can't do that.)


    As for evolution, I think it's quite probably a correct theory of how life has changed on Earth.
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    It's not dead but it's on the decline. I still go to a packed out Catholic Church every Sunday.
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    (Original post by Ronar)
    Yeah I know I think I phrased it wrong lol. I know I wont be happier just by having a belief but having a purpose thanks to this belief must make some people happy ll
    Well it's on the condition that they are related.
    I don't think happiness is the only important thing though. At the very least not in the context of the short term (I'm not ruling classical utilitarianism out).
    There is a fallacy here:
    "I would be happier if x were true
    therefore I want x to be true
    thus x is true".
    The premises can be true without the conclusion being true, thus if that is an argument for religion being true, it is invalid.
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    I think it's dying, but unless I'm mistaken, it's still the main religion in the UK.

    However, I think of the people who would still term themselves Christian, the majority aren't that devout about it.

    In 50 years it'll be dead, as all the older people who still believe die, and the younger more sceptical types don't replace them. Which I don't have a problem with. Apart from that some churches look kinda impressive, and it'd be a shame for them to go to waste.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    Well it's on the condition that they are related.
    I don't think happiness is the only important thing though. At the very least not in the context of the short term (I'm not ruling classical utilitarianism out).
    There is a fallacy here:
    "I would be happier if x were true
    therefore I want x to be true
    thus x is true".
    The premises can be true without the conclusion being true, thus if that is an argument for religion being true, it is invalid.
    yes i know i'm doing a philosophy degree

    and my point is, the IDEA makes me happy, real or not, so it must make SOME christians happy too

    i'm not even a christian !
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    Not dead yet.

    However the traditional views on Christianity are gone. The traditional loyalty and reliance on Christianity in a child's life and in a family (the nuclear family) died out over 30 years ago, or at least started to die out.

    I am a Christian and I think that by the time our generation (people now between the ages of 16 and 28 I would say) are elderly, views on Christianity and the role of Christianity in this country will have changed even more.

    Back in the 50's and 60's and even before it played a large part, however it wasn't really on the scale it was over in the USA where there are still prominent churches and people born into fundamentally Christian run families.

    But here that belief and that way of life has been slipping for a long time.
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    Whats this obsession with truth anyway? Is it so important to be 100% sure of things in life? If any of you do philosophy its pretty much guarenteed that nothing is ever definitively 'true' anyway
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    (Original post by Steezy)
    1. because I don't trust the sources from which the 'bible' comes from (e.g. CofE was created by Henry the 8th so he could legally divorce)
    This isn't true. Read some history.
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    (Original post by RK)
    Why not go to a church on a Sunday morning and see people going in? (I don't mean you have to go in yourself if you don't want to ). Not every church has large numbers of people, but many do.


    Why do I believe in God? Because the world doesn't make sense not to have a God and by background in maths and science can explain to my how the world works, but not why it works or how it came about. I don't buy the arguments that science explains away the need for the idea of a God either. If anything science explains to us just how miraculous the universe it and how unlikely it is to just puff in to existence in a cloud of smoke (or rather a big bang) with no input from anywhere as some people who say God doesn't exist expect us to believe.

    [Note - I'm not saying that the big bang didn't happen - in fact I think it's the mostly likely explanaition of how the universe was created, but it just doesn't explain why it happened and science can't do that.)


    As for evolution, I think it's quite probably a correct theory of how life has changed on Earth.
    So your belief is essential based on:
    I can't imagine the world working without God
    Therefore I presume God to be the 'starter' so on so forth.
    Is that right?
    If not then please explain, if so, then...

    ...However can't you argue with the same logic that something must have caused God into existence as God just couldn't of existed.
    Surely God is part of the universe. And to say it was created doesn't go with the idea of the big bang, it goes against it. The big bang is essentially the universe (or at least known universe) expanding. Time itself is related to forces, including gravity for instance. It's not just how the universe works, but how the universe came to be in its current state (which is like everything physical, matter or energy, always changing in some way).
    Now if we say that God is outside of the universe, then God by definition of what the universe is doesn't exist.

    Why the big bang may have happened? It could be a combination of things, and science can't explained the why, but it can explain the theories behind it, forms of combustion so on so forth.

    Even without those theories I'm unsure of how you make the jump to God. It's the same argument that creationists often use, saying evolution can't fully explain EVERYTHING with fossils because the record is incomplete. Therefore Creationism is the answer.

    On another issue, what is your definition of God?
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    (Original post by Ronar)
    yes i know i'm doing a philosophy degree

    and my point is, the IDEA makes me happy, real or not, so it must make SOME christians happy too

    i'm not even a christian !
    I'd disagree with that, people are not forced to be happy or sad, they choose actions and attachments as sources of being happy or sad.

    I'm also on a philosophy degree, what year are you in?
    Have you ever studied basic buddhist tradition?
    You might be interested, based on your posts on this thread, in reading the first several chapters of "what the buddha taught" by someone with a hard to pronounce or spell without looking it up, name:p: .
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    Only 17% of the population attend church regularly (i.e., once a month or more).
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    I'd disagree with that, people are not forced to be happy or sad, they choose actions and attachments as sources of being happy or sad.

    I'm also on a philosophy degree, what year are you in?
    Have you ever studied basic buddhist tradition?
    You might be interested, based on your posts on this thread, in reading the first several chapters of "what the buddha taught" by someone with a hard to pronounce or spell without looking it up, name:p: .
    I got an a in higher rmps which was basically all aboiut buddism, I did consider it but having no possetions is

    First year lol, but I love it. And my brain forces me to be sad! It's a fact lol :|
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    (Original post by Ronar)
    I got an a in higher rmps which was basically all aboiut buddism, I did consider it but having no possetions is

    First year lol, but I love it. And my brain forces me to be sad! It's a fact lol :|
    Buddhism =/= having no possessions. Try True Pure Land Buddhism or something - IMO, that's the most positive religion I've ever come across.
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    Well... yes Protestant Christianity scares me too!

    (Original post by Steezy)
    Religion - particularly christianity (particulary CofE) - scares me.

    1. because I don't trust the sources from which the 'bible' comes from (e.g. CofE was created by Henry the 8th so he could legally divorce)
    ...and the CofE (and other Protestant denominations) rejected the historical dogma and doctrines of Christ taught in the Catholic Church which aren't found in the Bible. This also explains why the Protestant "churches" cannot speak with one authoritative voice, and often misrepresent the "Church" teaching. Listen to the Pope.

    2. because in my experience, christians are very strange people and I can't understand this blind belief in something they have no proof for.
    Liberal Christians, yes. But have you experienced more than one denomination? Granted SSPX are whackos, as are most of the Bible-bashers in Texas, but your usual high-Church Catholic or middle-of-the-road CofE churchman would be absolutely "normal."

    Street preachers tend to be deluded and I like arguing with them

    I'm a reasonably spiritual person - I'm agnostic - so I believe there is something, but it is probably unimagineable to us (we're really not that clever!). But I liken belief in religion to the blind trust in a government. I just don't trust it!

    If you find a religion you think is stable, wonderful

    I don't personally know any Christians & I'm wondering how many are actually left in England? Would like to hear your point of view regarding your belief.

    Quite a few - but quite rightly observed, the Protestant churches are dying off, yet the Catholic Church continues to grow, especially with the awaited influx of Catholic-minded Anglicans who cannot accept female "bishops"

    I think you'll find plenty of posts written by me about the Catholic Faith. Those are both my beliefs, and the Church's - nothing added and nothing taken away. You'll get more of a varied response from Methodists/CofE/Lutherans/Baptists etc
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    (Original post by Ronar)
    I got an a in higher rmps which was basically all aboiut buddism, I did consider it but having no possetions is

    First year lol, but I love it. And my brain forces me to be sad! It's a fact lol :|
    what's higher RMPS?
    I'll guess Religion, Morals, Philosophy and Studies are words used in one way or another in it.

    The interesting things about the philosophy are it talks about seeing, not merely believing. And it relates to permanence a lot, so on so forth. Which I'm sure you know, but if you apply the 4 noble truths, and the doctrine of no soul, to Christianity, they contradict each other. But the Buddhist general philosophies about those seem to be more logically based.
    I'm not a buddhist either, but it's interesting.
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    (Original post by Glorious Lozhka)
    Buddhism =/= having no possessions. Try True Pure Land Buddhism or something - IMO, that's the most positive religion I've ever come across.
    I'm a little rusty, but is it based in the mahayana school of thought or the therevada?
    And which one of those is the traditional set of teachings and which one is the add ons one...?
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    (Original post by ForeverIsMyName)
    This isn't true. Read some history.
    Actually, that is the long and short of the reason of the existance of the CofE!

    The Pope refused Henry VIII an annulment (which is in accordance with Church teachings), so the king went and formed his own church, immediately excommunicating himself from the Catholic Church in doing so.
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    (Original post by john87)
    in b4 this thread turns into a thread about Islam
    You were about a minute too slow. Unlucky.
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    (Original post by there's too much love)
    what's higher RMPS?
    I'll guess Religion, Morals, Philosophy and Studies are words used in one way or another in it.

    The interesting things about the philosophy are it talks about seeing, not merely believing. And it relates to permanence a lot, so on so forth. Which I'm sure you know, but if you apply the 4 noble truths, and the doctrine of no soul, to Christianity, they contradict each other. But the Buddhist general philosophies about those seem to be more logically based.
    I'm not a buddhist either, but it's interesting.
    Yeah nothing is permanent..aww it's all returning to me now! I like the dammapada it has nice philosophies
 
 
 
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