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    (Original post by kamc)
    I agree with them to an extent. For example when I was at a friend's there were a few kid's there and one was a boy of around 3, he picked up one of the girl's baby dolls and started playing with it. He was quite happy playing with it until someone noticed and took it off him and told him that it was a girl's toy and boys play with this and handed him a plastic truck (or something like that). The kid started crying and wanted the doll back but was told he couldn't play with it. Now what is the harm in a little boy playing with a doll if he wants to?
    Nothing at all but why does it have to be a secret from everyone? I agree with the principle that the kid (well all kids) should be able to wear/ do whatever they feel comfortable with, but isnt this going a bit ott?
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    (Original post by RJ555)
    Not to mention the immense amount of gender identity confusion thats bound to hit them when they reach puberty, especially if they'd already started to identify with cross-gender behaviours.

    Either way, it'll all end in therapy, poor child.
    I don't understand this sentiment at all. The kid is being raised in a gender-neutral way; presumably so that (s)he can come to his/her own conclusions about gender identity and so on. So how would this lead to gender identity confusion? Wouldn't it be easier if you had a clean slate and could come to terms with your gender identity yourself, without pre-determined social norms confusing the situation?

    I think children end up needing therapy because of their gender being forced on them, not vice versa.

    (Original post by Bubbalina)
    I would have thought that that would be more damaging to the child than just bringing it up as a boy or a girl not that i know anything about bringing up kids!
    This is kinda the point. You see it as "damaging" because you're so used to the dichotomous gender model in our society; but the only way to combat that model is to deviate from it. It's circular reasoning: something is damaging because it doesn't adhere to a certain norm, but that norm only exists because no one deviates from it, because deviation is seen as damaging.

    (Original post by Bubbalina)
    Nothing at all but why does it have to be a secret from everyone? I agree with the principle that the kid (well all kids) should be able to wear/ do whatever they feel comfortable with, but isnt this going a bit ott?
    Let me see if I can explain it. These parents don't want their child to grow up associated with a certain gender before the child even knows what gender is. In society's mind, gender is irrevocably linked with sex. Thus, in order to keep the child from being labelled "male" or "female" and being placed in a convenient box, they hide his/her* sex from other people.

    *really I should use a gender-neutral pronoun, because the way I look at it the child is neither male nor female [gendered] yet, but English doesn't have one, so oh well
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    (Original post by Bubbalina)
    Nothing at all but why does it have to be a secret from everyone? I agree with the principle that the kid (well all kids) should be able to wear/ do whatever they feel comfortable with, but isnt this going a bit ott?
    Well yeah that part I wouldn't do with my kid, although I don't have a problem with them choosing not to tell people, but I was just giving an example of how people treat boys and girls differently based on their gender. Many people have attitudes like that and they want to avoid it as much as possible. They also aren't keeping it secret from family, its not anybodies business whether their kid is a boy or a girl anyway.
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    (Original post by puddlejumper)
    They should be forced to disclose the gender under penalty of having the child removed from their care.
    Good one, "Tell us if your child is a boy or a girl, or we're taking it from you!"
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    (Original post by RJ555)
    Yup, me to. Never fails to shock me that story, he had such a tragic life.

    With the kid in question its not going to turn out well, even discounting the gender thing, what sort of a name is Pop? :rolleyes:

    Likelihood is that the child will either be outcast from BOTH gender groups in school for not fitting into their patterns, and more thank likely be bullied as a result of it.

    Not to mention the immense amount of gender identity confusion thats bound to hit them when they reach puberty, especially if they'd already started to identify with cross-gender behaviours.

    Either way, it'll all end in therapy, poor child.
    It'll never reach that stage. The only thing they are likely going to get bullied for is perhaps the name pop. You don't exactly see tomboys suffering from major identity crisis, do you? In fact I'm sure some of these individuals take pride in the fact that they aren't the 'norm' of what girls should be like. The reverse is also true.
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    Don't use your child to make a point to society. We are all born male or female they can't change that so just forget it and let the kid grow up naturally.
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    (Original post by Bubbalina)
    Nothing at all but why does it have to be a secret from everyone? I agree with the principle that the kid (well all kids) should be able to wear/ do whatever they feel comfortable with, but isnt this going a bit ott?
    People start acting differently towards you if they know gender. It's simple as that. They'd rather not have initial priming.
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    (Original post by Music Is My Boyfriend)
    Don't use your child to make a point to society. We are all born male or female they can't change that so just forget it and let the kid grow up naturally.
    We are not born male or female. Not everyone is cisgendered; you have to be willingly oblivious to deny that.
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    (Original post by opaltiger)
    What on earth is not tasteful about not wanting other people to know the sex of your child?
    Tasteful is the wrong word, but if they keep it up it could be detrimental for the child as they won't be integrated into their gender role in their normal way. I don't agree or disagree with those who say it's wrong for individuals to have gender roles, but I am saying that a lot of understanding of society relies on an understanding of gender.
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    Retarded parents, why experiment with your child.

    They could have just painted the baby's room yellow.
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    (Original post by Ignoramus)
    Tasteful is the wrong word, but if they keep it up it could be detrimental for the child as they won't be integrated into their gender role in their normal way.
    The whole point is that the "normal way" is flawed.

    (Original post by BrightGirl)
    Retarded parents, why experiment with your child.
    Because that's the only way to change things.
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    (Original post by opaltiger)
    The whole point is that the "normal way" is flawed.
    I think that a societal shift towards a genderless society is unlikely, regardless of whether or not it's the right thing to do, for two reasons:

    1. Gender beings a sense of identity, which is something a lot people in society value and even exploit e.g. models
    2. Gender in terms of behavioural roles can be argued to have a biological basis to some extent (as gender roles are observable in some primates, etc.)

    It's one thing to believe the normal way is flawed, and another to act in defiance of it at the expense of traditional gender integration of your child into society, which will affect their future.
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    If they keep it secret from the kid too, how will it know which toilet to use?
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    You can still not be confined to gender stereotypes even if everyone knows your gender. I can't really understand the parents attitude here, or how it would work!
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    When parents aren't disclosing their child's gender due to fears of stereotyping/bullying you know that the world has gone bananas!
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    (Original post by Ignoramus)
    I think that a societal shift towards a genderless society is unlikely, regardless of whether or not it's the right thing to do, for two reasons:

    1. Gender beings a sense of identity, which is something a lot people in society value and even exploit e.g. models
    2. Gender in terms of behavioural roles can be argued to have a biological basis to some extent (as gender roles are observable in some primates, etc.)
    Not a genderless society, simply one in which people acknowledge that gender is not the same thing as sex. Yes, gender identity is a good thing for many people, but the idea is that every person should come to terms with their identity themselves. Their biological sex shouldn't matter.

    Even if gender roles do have a biological basis, why should that matter to humans? Humans have done everything in our power to escape our biological imperatives - viz. contraception. This is a double standard: you cannot argue for one thing because it's "natural" when the vast majority of things humans do aren't "natural".

    (Original post by Ignoramus)
    It's one thing to believe the normal way is flawed, and another to act in defiance of it at the expense of traditional gender integration of your child into society, which will affect their future.
    I repeat: if you believe that a certain aspect of society is flawed, the only way to change it is to actively try and influence society. Why is it another thing to defy traditional views? If you think one way is flawed, isn't it only natural - in fact, from one point of view, isn't it morally necessary - to defy that way, no matter how traditional, and raise your child in accordance with your own views?

    (Original post by raspberryice)
    When parents aren't disclosing their child's gender due to fears of stereotyping/bullying you know that the world has gone bananas!
    Perhaps you should actually read the first post.
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    I hope someone pulls that kids pants down one day :teehee:
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    (Original post by Music Is My Boyfriend)
    Don't use your child to make a point to society. We are all born male or female they can't change that so just forget it and let the kid grow up naturally.
    The whole point is that gender stereotypes aren't normal. This isn't remotely about 'making a point', it's about raising a child in the most moral way. Who said anything about changing gender? The point is that it's not important whether you're born male or female--or at least it shouldn't be. By hiding the child's gender, the parents protect him from the prejudice of other people. (Incidentally, I don't think this is a good approach, but the lack of understanding of the parents demonstrated in this thread is shocking.)
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    (Original post by kevin_123)
    Good one, "Tell us if your child is a boy or a girl, or we're taking it from you!"
    No, raise your child in a normal appropriate way and not in one which is radical and completely unnecessary, risking the child's psychological well being, or we'll take your child away from you.

    Gosh, I just got my first neg rep from someone who states that my 'extreme views are extreme'. As they didn't bother to leave a name, (probably couldn't remember it), I can only assume that in their little world ALL parents raise their child without telling anyone what gender it is. Which is strange as I thought it was the other way round. Guess that you live and learn as I would have thought it was extreme to refuse to disclose your child's gender!
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    (Original post by puddlejumper)
    No, raise your child in a normal appropriate way and not in one which is radical and completely unnecessary, risking the child's psychological well being, or we'll take your child away from you.
    So who gets to tell parents what a "normal appropriate way" to raise their child is?
 
 
 
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