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    (Original post by luuucyx)
    not really, if youre capable of the grades then whats to say you wont achieve them?
    tbbbhhh, youre quite clearly state schooled and im private schooled so this is never gonna be eye to eye is it?
    i dunno, i just think that the people at state schools and private schools who do achieve the grades they need should be looked at equally and not be turned away just because of their school.
    dont bother yourself with the 'revolution' person. clearly one of those anti-establishment rebellion types.
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    My school has achieved an Oxbridge success rate of around a 400% increase in offers given compared to previous years. I go to a grammar school sixth form, and most of the teachers that I spoke to think that we are a 'clever' year. However one teacher thinks that it is due to government pressure to accept more people from the state sector, citing an example of a private school she knows where nobody has an offer from Oxbridge, when they usually get around 8. I agree with the first set of teachers.
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    (Original post by luuucyx)
    not really, if youre capable of the grades then whats to say you wont achieve them?
    tbbbhhh, youre quite clearly state schooled and im private schooled so this is never gonna be eye to eye is it?
    i dunno, i just think that the people at state schools and private schools who do achieve the grades they need should be looked at equally and not be turned away just because of their school.
    It's very easy to say that having gone to a private school, but, at State schools, there are wild variations in the quality of everything; there is a reason why some state schools have GCSE pass rates of 20%, and some of 80%. Let's say you're the type to not do any revision whatsoever; it's pretty clear that you're going to do a lot better if you have teachers who are able to teach you everything well, rather than teachers who have to spend 90% of their time maintaining a modicum of discipline, and the rest trying, and failing, to teach the subject properly.
    I don't think anybody's being turned away purely because of the school they went to; no University is going to see someone goes to a private school, then throw away the application without even looking at it. But surely you must agree that pupils and their grades should be viewed in the light of the environment that they achieved them?
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    lol.

    why do you people take what you read in the media seriously?

    there's a reason the papers never find any solid evidence of positive discrimination...

    the universities take the best students they can. its as simple as that.
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    our school wasnt too good (its since gone into 'special measures' after an ofsted inspection) and we were told we had good chances of getting in because if we had good grades compared to someone from a privilidged school, our grades would show more because we havent had the opportunities, highest standard of teaching etc. and as far as i know pretty much everyone who applied to go to uni in my year got in, even someone doing dentistry :/
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    (Original post by loafer)
    dont bother yourself with the 'revolution' person. clearly one of those anti-establishment rebellion types.
    I'll have you know my username is because of a song, rather than as a result of being anti-establishment.
    The neg and the patronising comments are very much appreciated, though :borat:
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    Surely more A grades are being obtained because education in this country is better than it used to be (better funded, perhaps)?
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    Universities aren't forced to take on lower grade students or engage in social engineering (whatever the Torygraph claims...). Universities are taking on bright pupils from poorer backgrounds because they believe these pupils show more promise than bright pupils from more well off backgrounds, which speaks volumes.
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    (Original post by Good Apollo)
    This argument hinges around whether you think;

    1) A persons "potential" is better.
    2) A persons achievements are better.

    However, having your school taken into account when deciding how much potential someone has is misguided, because the people who do significantly worse because they go to a state school are surely the type of people who are only capable of learning by being spoon-fed from teachers. Anyone who goes to a state school and gets good acadmic results by incorporating self-study (such as reading the textbook) into their work actually has MORE potential than those who do not, espeically when we consider that university is very much more about self-study than school is. For this reason, "potential" and "achievements" are actually one and the same, and should be considered as such.
    True, but consider two identical people who learn by being spoon-fed, one of whom goes to a good Private School, the other to an appalling State School. At the Private School, they're adequately spoon-fed, and they get excellent results; at the State School, they aren't, and they get appalling results. Now, if the University decides to equate potential and achievement, then they're going to consider the Private School pupil to have a lot more potential than the State School pupil, even though the difference is solely caused by the difference in the quality of teaching, and the the Private School pupil is then considered on a par with a State School pupil with a hell of a lot more potential.
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    it seems normal to me. if two applicants have the same grades and one goes to a public school and another goes to a private school, it is likely the public school person has had to work harder/is naturally more intelligent because of the worse teaching.
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    (Original post by Revolution is my Name)
    It's very easy to say that having gone to a private school, but, at State schools, there are wild variations in the quality of everything; there is a reason why some state schools have GCSE pass rates of 20%, and some of 80%. Let's say you're the type to not do any revision whatsoever; it's pretty clear that you're going to do a lot better if you have teachers who are able to teach you everything well, rather than teachers who have to spend 90% of their time maintaining a modicum of discipline, and the rest trying, and failing, to teach the subject properly.
    I don't think anybody's being turned away purely because of the school they went to; no University is going to see someone goes to a private school, then throw away the application without even looking at it. But surely you must agree that pupils and their grades should be viewed in the light of the environment that they achieved them?
    My school was horribly organised such as coursework being lost/deleted for subjects such as ICT hence my two Es which should have been A/Bs..

    The big issue was they couldn't afford to put people in for exams across the 2 years so instead they just made us do all the exams in one sitting at the end of year 11. So much for modular exams ey? There also weren't any requirements to being accepted at my school hence the large number of retards disrupting lessons every 5minutes lmao..
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    (Original post by luuucyx)
    not really, if youre capable of the grades then whats to say you wont achieve them?
    tbbbhhh, youre quite clearly state schooled and im private schooled so this is never gonna be eye to eye is it?
    i dunno, i just think that the people at state schools and private schools who do achieve the grades they need should be looked at equally and not be turned away just because of their school.
    I've been state schooled AND private schooled, and I agree- pupils at state school get a LOT more help as well as generally having smaller class sizes. Also, a few kids from the local private school came to my sixth form for various reasons and immediately started getting lower marks than they had been getting at their previous school simply because there was less help ( although I'd like to point out that my sixth form is actually one of the best in the area and did actually get consistently good results, it was just that they weren't used to that style of being taught)
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    (Original post by loafer)
    dont bother yourself with the 'revolution' person. clearly one of those anti-establishment rebellion types.
    hahaha about now would be the time to mention jack wills wouldnt it?
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    (Original post by Revolution is my Name)
    It's very easy to say that having gone to a private school, but, at State schools, there are wild variations in the quality of everything; there is a reason why some state schools have GCSE pass rates of 20%, and some of 80%. Let's say you're the type to not do any revision whatsoever; it's pretty clear that you're going to do a lot better if you have teachers who are able to teach you everything well, rather than teachers who have to spend 90% of their time maintaining a modicum of discipline, and the rest trying, and failing, to teach the subject properly.
    I don't think anybody's being turned away purely because of the school they went to; no University is going to see someone goes to a private school, then throw away the application without even looking at it. But surely you must agree that pupils and their grades should be viewed in the light of the environment that they achieved them?
    i see your point, but i know the some universities look at schools not grades.
    students from private schools get rejected because theyre from private schools, even with the same grades. and no they shouldnt be.
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    (Original post by luuucyx)
    hahaha about now would be the time to mention jack wills wouldnt it?
    dare you..
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    I don't think type of school should come into it. There are lots of top state schools that outperform private schools, how would you differentiate there? What about people at state schools who have had private tutoring all through GCSEs/A levels?
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    (Original post by luuucyx)
    and no they shouldnt be.
    For ****'s sake, I type out half a page of reasons why they should be, and the only reason I get back in response is "No they shouldn't be". Stop wasting my time if you're not even going to argue properly.
    Let me present you with another analogy: the England cricket selectors decide to base their selections on one particular County game. One player scores 57 against the best team in the league, and another player scores 57 against the worst team in the league. Would you not agree that the first player should be selected over the second, as, if they were indeed of equal ability, then the second player should have scored significantly more than they did, given the weaker opposition and easier opportunities to score? Again, I fail to see how that situation is any different.
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    (Original post by Revolution is my Name)
    True, but consider two identical people who learn by being spoon-fed, one of whom goes to a good Private School, the other to an appalling State School. At the Private School, they're adequately spoon-fed, and they get excellent results; at the State School, they aren't, and they get appalling results. Now, if the University decides to equate potential and achievement, then they're going to consider the Private School pupil to have a lot more potential than the State School pupil, even though the difference is solely caused by the difference in the quality of teaching, and the the Private School pupil is then considered on a par with a State School pupil with a hell of a lot more potential.
    Indeed, and for the reason you mention above, it's more or less impossible to tell which students are the "spoon feeding" types and which are not (because almost nobody goes to both a public and state school). Therefore, it's pretty much impossible to consistently determine what someone's potential is purely from their grades and school, which is why I'm proposing we use the student's achievements as the sole basis for their consideration, because this is more likely to mean students with a greater potential get offered places. It's not perfect, some good students do slip through the net due to no fault of their own, but in my view fewer than if we place an emphasis on which school a person went to (as evidenced in the post you quoted).
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    It's totally unfair and wrong. This is what the tories and right-wing people want to encourage. That's why I vote Communism (Well, one of the reasons!)
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    (Original post by loafer)
    dare you..
    i also like how private schooled kids wear the jack wills.
    however, state school kids wear it too. i think if you saved up all the money people spend on the wills, they could afford private school.
    one hoody buys you at least three days schooling?
 
 
 
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