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    (Original post by Revolution is my Name)
    Firstly, although the "majority" of people work hard, only about 10% of students go to private schools, so there's hardly a concrete correlation between "working hard" and being able to pay for a private school, especially as there's also not a definite correlation between how hard you work and how much you earn (and thus your ability to pay for a private school). I mean, a Private in the Army could work ******* hard in a dangerous environment, but earn no where near enough to afford a private school, even if they do want to give their children the "best".
    Secondly, I'd hardly say it was discrimination if, say, a University who values GCSEs is presented with a private school candidate wit 7 A*'s, and a State school one with 5A*'s, and judges that, because of the benefit accrued from a private school, those two achievements are of about equal value.
    Thirdly, surely anything else would equate to discriminating against children just because their parents didn't work hard. How is that any fairer?
    Its 17% of children who go to private school in the uk
    most army kids end up going to private school
    just because you go to private school you get good results just as if you go to a comp you get bad results

    I think what is fair is that the best person gets the place no matter the background otherwise a degree wont be worth the paper its written on
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    (Original post by Mayowa)
    Its 17% of children who go to private school in the uk
    most army kids end up going to private school
    just because you go to private school you get good results just as if you go to a comp you get bad results

    I think what is fair is that the best person gets the place no matter the background otherwise a degree wont be worth the paper its written on
    You got any statistics to support the bit in bold?
    No, it doesn't, but people at Private Schools will still get better results than if they went to a State School.
    And yes, that is what's fair. But best person does not necessarily mean the person with the highest grades, especially if they've gone to completely different schools and had completely different opportunities to get the highest grades.
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    (Original post by Revolution is my Name)
    And yes, that is what's fair. But best person does not necessarily mean the person with the highest grades, especially if they've gone to completely different schools and had completely different opportunities to get the highest grades.
    At the end of the day, the person who went to the private school tends to have higher grades, and should be accepted to the university based on this. The problem here is the failing public school system.
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    Both sides of this debate always feel they're being discriminated against, and it's discussed over and over...when it comes down to it there are thousands of factors that affect both what grade a student achieves and whether they get an offer. I was predicted all A's last year and only got one offer, had nothing to do with my school, I had a **** ps, completely random subject combination and other than my predicted grades my application was pretty poor...whichever kid the telegraph interviewed could've been in this situation or a multitude of others that meant he lost out to other applicants.
    As far as education in private vs public can't really comment because it's a bit different over here...but again multitude of reasons, and the school you're at plays a bigger part in your education than a lot of other factors, so it's bound to make a difference in that respect at least, and it's likely private schools will have more funds to keep things running smoothly if nothing else :dontknow:
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    (Original post by luuucyx)
    i was reading the paper this morning and came across

    http://www.telegraph.co.uk/education...niversity.html

    so tonight i googled the whole thing and found

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/education/...ls-top-alevels

    i dont really understand why schools are discriminated against either way? everyones doing the same work? if you get the grade, you get the grade. the fact youve gone to a private school shouldnt matter.
    what dyou think?
    It's Labour's social engineering.

    Universities are no longer places of education, no longer places of learning for its own sake. But just another means of achieving 'social justice'. They are purely for utility.
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    (Original post by Time Tourist)
    It's Labour's social engineering.

    Universities are no longer places of education, no longer places of learning for its own sake. But just another means of achieving 'social justice'. They are purely for utility.
    i think i love you. i think this too. plus half of them went to private schools, so its stupid.
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    (Original post by Mayowa)
    So discriminate against people because their parents work hard(the majority) and want to give them the best? sounds fair to me
    How completely ignorant. The rich always work the hardest? Pffft.
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    (Original post by Revolution is my Name)
    OK, I just googled the school it says you go to on your profile, and it gives this information about GCSE results:

    Surely you can see that 10A*< at a Private School is worth somewhat less than that at a State School, given that the percentage for that at my school is about 30 times less than it is at yours? And the all A*/A is about 15 times less?
    no not really.
    tbh youre so biased and some of your views are right but a lot of other people in this thread see this as wrong.
    an A grade is an A grade. yes? doesnt matter what type of school you go to its still an A.
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    (Original post by luuucyx)
    no not really.
    tbh youre so biased and some of your views are right but a lot of other people in this thread see this as wrong.
    an A grade is an A grade. yes? doesnt matter what type of school you go to its still an A.
    An A grade is an A grade, HOWEVER, it is fact that some schools have much better teaching quality and environment than others. Yes, some state schools are fantastic and some are awful, however, on average a private school will have a better learning environment overall, increasing the attainment of their pupils. An A grade in a subject that has been taught to you well, with the teacher giving you lots of individual attention, as well as no messing around in the classroom, is an achievement. But, an A grade that you've had to pretty much self teach, had no individual attention or help from any teacher and the lesson was full of people messing around and being loud and distracting, as well as bullying for being a "nerd" is a greater achievement, and I would argue that more work has been put in.

    The universities are aware of this difference and do take it into account and while I do disagree with fixed quotas, taking it into account is not discrimination, it's assessing individual's ability (takes more ability to self teach than to have individual help and attention from people who are skilled in the subject and who know the syllabuses back to front).

    While not all state schools are bad, and not all private schools are brilliant, there is a correllation and in my mind the student should be assessed based on the individual merits of the school, as well as taking into account any circumstances at home.

    Pure academics is NOT a foolproof method of measuring ability, other situations have to be taken into account!
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    Private school kids still get into respected unis, and unis do like them, they just focus on taking in more from state schools, which helps socially and also gives incentives for kids from lower ranked schools to work hard.

    Example, I work in an office near Kings College School. The kids there are mainly middle class from intellectual and professional based families, and the school itself is centred around work ethic. These kids are TRAINED to work hard for exams, and have the best teachers in classes with about 12 students tops. result = greater % of better grades. My old job was near a state comprehensive in inner city london, where I worked as a volunteer tutor there. The Kids there were very unfocused, they often misbehaved and the teachers seemed like they didnt give a ****. Hardly any of the kids cared about uni from what it looked like, despite their potential (which i saw in my classes).

    The point is, that the schools have different environments, and that some environments are better tailored toward universities. Unfortunately, the great deal of crime and poverty in areas where there are under performing schools do not promote this, which is why its important that kids from these schools are given some kind of drive to go to universities. I agree that the system needs to be revised, but the fact that bright kids in under performing schools are ignored is an issue. There are very few programmes that do extra cirricular tuition such as the programme I was enrolled on last summer.

    Also, there was a guy bawwing in the newspaper yesterday that he got 10 A* grades and didnt get into oxford, 'just durham'......
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    (Original post by luuucyx)
    no not really.
    tbh youre so biased and some of your views are right but a lot of other people in this thread see this as wrong.
    an A grade is an A grade. yes? doesnt matter what type of school you go to its still an A.
    If I'm biased, then what the **** does that make you? I'm giving you my opinion, and giving you some reasons as to why I think that. You're giving me your opinion, and absolutely no reasons whatsoever to support that, suggesting you don't have any, and just believe it "because". I think you seriously misunderstand the concept of bias if you think it describes me more than it does you.
    Yes, an A grade is an A grade. But what I'm trying to say is, that, when two schools have two sets of pupils, and one of those schools gets significantly higher results than the other, then you have to accept that there are factors other than the pupils that are at play, and that two identical pupils will, at the different schools, achieve two completely different grades, purely because they go to different schools. So although one person's A is the same as another's, the people achieving an A at a private school are going to be very different to the people achieving an A at a State School. e.g Your school's A*-C percentage is 99.5%, so I imagine that means that no one gets less than 5A*-C. Yet, at my school, about half of people get that. You must realise that it's not because half of my school is less clever than your entire school, but rather just that your school is better - if it weren't improving your results, then your parents wouldn't be paying for it.
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    The rich are just annoyed that their buying of privilege and position is at last being challenged. After all £20K a year for Tarquin's schooling and he still doesn't get into Oxbridge would annoy anybody!
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    (Original post by luuucyx)
    i think i love you. i think this too. plus half of them went to private schools, so its stupid.
    About 70 Labour MPs out of 350 went to Private School. That's a fifth, not a half. Besides, as you say, it wasn't their choice to go to Private School, and I've got nothing against somebody just because they go to a Private School, only those who do so and then refuse to recognise the unfairness of the system, but these Labour MPs have done this, and are now seeking to do something about it.
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    (Original post by JakePearson)
    At the end of the day, the person who went to the private school tends to have higher grades, and should be accepted to the university based on this. The problem here is the failing public school system.
    But why though? These statistics of some Private Schools getting 100% 5 A*-C shows that, often, academic grades, particularly at GCSE, are more an indicator of which school you went to than your academic ability, which is surely what the Universities actually want?
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    Ok.

    Rant 1. Please can people use the correct definition of public/private/state.

    state= state run so we a looking at comps/grammar schools
    Private = independent schools, ie fee paying schools independent of the state
    Public = either the historic public schools (eg eton) of which I think there are about 11 OR those private schools whose head teachers attend the headmaster conference.

    Please use the word properly and don't interchange state/public as they mean totally different things.

    Rant 2. People who go to grammar schools and then play class warrior of how they should be accepted more than private/public school children can **** off. Grammar schools are equal/superior in quality to private/public which people may go to due to a lack of provision of grammar schools in their area. If anything YOU should also be discriminated against.

    Rant 3. Dragging people down to help others up is absurd, looking at using uni as a social engineering tool is stupid damages education further. The solution is to improve the state sector. Which I feel would be best done by incorporating a voucher system (as in Sweden) which bring competition to the education sector and removes the state stranglehold on education which can be used for indoctrination.

    And for those that want to attack me personally rather than my points, I went to a public school (2nd definition) with a scholarship to help funding. Attack me and then please **** off
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    (Original post by Revolution is my Name)
    About 70 Labour MPs out of 350 went to Private School. That's a fifth, not a half. Besides, as you say, it wasn't their choice to go to Private School, and I've got nothing against somebody just because they go to a Private School, only those who do so and then refuse to recognise the unfairness of the system, but these Labour MPs have done this, and are now seeking to do something about it.
    But erm to some of them maybe send their children to private school as the total hypocritical *******s that they are?

    Yes.
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    (Original post by crazylemon)
    Ok.

    Rant 1. Please can people use the correct definition of public/private/state.

    state= state run so we a looking at comps/grammar schools
    Private = independent schools, ie fee paying schools independent of the state
    Public = either the historic public schools (eg eton) of which I think there are about 11 OR those private schools whose head teachers attend the headmaster conference.

    Please use the word properly and don't interchange state/public as they mean totally different things.

    Rant 2. People who go to grammar schools and then play class warrior of how they should be accepted more than private/public school children can **** off. Grammar schools are equal/superior in quality to private/public which people may go to due to a lack of provision of grammar schools in their area. If anything YOU should also be discriminated against.

    Rant 3. Dragging people down to help others up is absurd, looking at using uni as a social engineering tool is stupid damages education further. The solution is to improve the state sector. Which I feel would be best done by incorporating a voucher system (as in Sweden) which bring competition to the education sector and removes the state stranglehold on education which can be used for indoctrination.

    And for those that want to attack me personally rather than my points, I went to a public school (2nd definition) with a scholarship to help funding. Attack me and then please **** off
    Yes, state schools do need improving (or at least, a lot of them do), however I still feel that, rather than discriminating against categories of school, the individual circumstances should be taken into account (IE, at a low performing, inner city, state school with lots of violence and crime, BBB requires more work than BBB at a public/private/grammar/good state school)
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    Basically, make getting 3 A's at a level insanely difficult (having maybe 0.6 - 1 % of students attaning 3A's). That way, a kid in a public or private school with high grades will have probably achieved it more due to his intelligence/dedication rather than the quality of the school.
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    (Original post by chriscpritchard)
    Yes, state schools do need improving (or at least, a lot of them do), however I still feel that, rather than discriminating against categories of school, the individual circumstances should be taken into account (IE, at a low performing, inner city, state school with lots of violence and crime, BBB requires more work than BBB at a public/private/grammar/good state school)
    In the sense of EVERTHING being otherwise equal (not just grades but the rest of the package) maybe.

    I would be more in favour of just putting access scheme in place instead though (as they do with medicine) where you have to do an extra catchup year before entering the course, these seem to work well and produce people of similar calibre to those and the normal course (amazingly this was done without the government ordering it so). Tell the government to **** off and let unis take whoever they think is best rather than letting the government use them as a tool for their little schemes. Let unis decide what they want to do rather than letting the gov. twist their arms.
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    (Original post by crazylemon)
    But erm to some of them maybe send their children to private school as the total hypocritical *******s that they are?

    Yes.
    Well, I imagine the couple of Labour MPs who do that aren't the ones who support those measures, but I think the ****-storm that generally develops in the media whenever something like that happens is pretty indicative of the fact that that doesn't represent the majority of Labour MPs.
 
 
 
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