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    (Original post by silent ninja)
    Dude, you are embarrassing yourself. It's very clear I was replying to the poster whom I quoted about why they got booted out of Europe this season. Clutching at straws there.
    Its not unnatural to scrape through group stages and go on to prevail.

    Liverpool 05 for example. Yeah, we struggled through group stages - didn't play well. But your original post referred to the decrease in quality of Manchester United when your reasoning is down to patchy form, which doesn't make sense.
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    (Original post by scriggy)
    This definitely feels like a watershed season with regards to the English clubs dominance of Europe. Not so long ago we had 3 teams in the semi finals, yet now we'll be lucky to have 1 team in the last 8. There's no way we can claim to have the best league in the World anymore after this season.

    Good luck to you guys in the second leg though. :yy:
    I've been watching La Liga for a good decade and have never put the PL above. The cream in Spain have been marginally better than ours. However, it's not all doom and gloom regarding this season. Man City and Tottenham have both earned some experience in Europe and I expect good things from them next year. Man Utd and Chelsea should also strengthen. We'll see. When Liverpool and Chelsea were kicking ass in Europe (ie. we weren't relying on Arsenal and Man U as in the past), English football was at an all-time high. I really do think the quality of PL team football has dropped quite a bit but it's nothing fundamental that can't be turned around in one season.
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    (Original post by USB)
    If we sort out our defence within two weeks, we can go into the second leg with optimism.

    If however we continue to be ****ty at the back, then there will only ever be a single outcome.

    This a dark time for Chelsea considering what they could and really should have achieved :/
    How can you ''sort out the defence'' in just two weeks? The problem has been on going season long and two weeks won't change, if it were that simple AVB would have done it long ago.
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    (Original post by rickjames)
    Its not unnatural to scrape through group stages and go on to prevail.

    Liverpool 05 for example. Yeah, we struggled through group stages - didn't play well. But your original post referred to the decrease in quality of Manchester United when your reasoning is down to patchy form, which doesn't make sense.
    Well I agree you could call it patchy form and it's common to scrape through the group stages, but the reality is we call it patchy if they manage to pull through. And if they fail to get through, then it's general poor form. You don't get to prove yourself if you fail at the first hurdle.

    IMO the quality has gone down for sure. Truth is, the last time you had a spark in the team in Europe was when C.Ronaldo played for you. I'm not saying it was because of him, but the whole team had it going for them. Obviously done great to get to the final last year but it was a case of over achieving IMO and I'd pretty much written them off before the game kicked off against Barcelona. There's no denying United are on the whole pretty solid in Europe but come on, look at this current team. Maybe I'm biased because I've never liked Rooney and he's been mediocre in Europe (Fergie didn't play United's best player in the final either -- Naani!).
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    (Original post by rainbow_kisses)
    If we can put 3 past United at Stamford Bridge i think we can put just as many past Napoli
    I can only guess that when we went 1-0 up we tried to chase the game, I didn't watch it, he puts 3 CM's on against a team with one of the best strike forces in the world.
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    (Original post by KingMessi)
    Yes, but the problem is that we also conceded three. I don't care that we can still score, we concede in practically any game. Can you honestly see us keeping Napoli out?
    We haven't conceded at stamford bridge this season in europe, so we still have a good chance. I'm not too worried, I hoped for a 1-1 draw or a 2-1 though.
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    (Original post by silent ninja)
    Well I agree you could call it patchy form and it's common to scrape through the group stages, but the reality is we call it patchy if they manage to pull through. And if they fail to get through, then it's general poor form. You don't get to prove yourself if you fail at the first hurdle.

    IMO the quality has gone down for sure. Truth is, the last time you had a spark in the team in Europe was when C.Ronaldo played for you. I'm not saying it was because of him, but the whole team had it going for them. Obviously done great to get to the final last year but it was a case of over achieving IMO and I'd pretty much written them off before the game kicked off against Barcelona. There's no denying United are on the whole pretty solid in Europe but come on, look at this current team. Maybe I'm biased because I've never liked Rooney and he's been mediocre in Europe (Fergie didn't play United's best player in the final either -- Naani!).
    Rooney is overhyped for me, personally and yeah I agree Ferguson made some selection errors.

    But then if you recall the match we dominated for 20 mins or so (negligable I know) but that was down to our energy. Jones and Cleverly would make such a massive difference if they were to come around again. The closest comparison we have now was in pre-season, no one gave 100% but our youth looked rather comfortable regardless.

    Wrt form, its a fine line.. qualification could well come through luck. I mean De Gea was unlucky against Basel, no? If we went on to qualify then everyone would say ''Man Utd's back was pressed against the wall and they got the results.. sign of Champions la la la'', but we didn't. I still maintain our form was patchy at best, and note I'm not even bringing up the massive injury issues we had.
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    (Original post by rickjames)
    Rooney is overhyped for me, personally and yeah I agree Ferguson made some selection errors.

    But then if you recall the match we dominated for 20 mins or so (negligable I know) but that was down to our energy. Jones and Cleverly would make such a massive difference if they were to come around again. The closest comparison we have now was in pre-season, no one gave 100% but our youth looked rather comfortable regardless.

    Wrt form, its a fine line.. qualification could well come through luck. I mean De Gea was unlucky against Basel, no? If we went on to qualify then everyone would say ''Man Utd's back was pressed against the wall and they got the results.. sign of Champions la la la'', but we didn't. I still maintain our form was patchy at best, and note I'm not even bringing up the massive injury issues we had.
    Yeah, I get what you mean.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    Yeah, I get what you mean.
    I get the hint.. I'l take my United talk to the designated forum, lol
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    (Original post by rickjames)
    I get the hint.. I'l take my United talk to the designated forum, lol
    Haha, na I don't really mind too much, I do that in the arsenal thread, it's too depressing talking about arsenal on the arsenal thread, they're terrible tbh. Top 4 is now a trophy for them while top 4 for us is failure.

    If you scraped a win vs basel like liverpool did in the 04-05 season, they would say it's a sign of champions.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    Haha, na I don't really mind too much, I do that in the arsenal thread, it's too depressing talking about arsenal on the arsenal thread, they're terrible tbh. Top 4 is now a trophy for them while top 4 for us is failure.

    If you scraped a win vs basel like liverpool did in the 04-05 season, they would say it's a sign of champions.
    Top 4 is not a trophy for us. Just because the manager feels it is doesn't reflect that the fans feel it is.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    If you scraped a win vs basel like liverpool did in the 04-05 season, they would say it's a sign of champions.
    :confused:

    We played Basel in 2002 coming back from 3-0 down to draw 3-3.

    Do you mean AK Graz in the qualifier?
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    AVB only to be sacked if you don't finish top4?
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    (Original post by L18)
    :confused:

    We played Basel in 2002 coming back from 3-0 down to draw 3-3.

    Do you mean AK Graz in the qualifier?
    Na, You faced another team, where you needed to score 3 goals in 1 half or something and went through to the group stages.


    (Original post by Zerforax)
    AVB only to be sacked if you don't finish top4?
    Looks like it now, maybe abramovichs too focused on his court case. I thinks it's a good thing tbh.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    Na, You faced another team, where you needed to score 3 goals in 1 half or something and went through to the group stages.




    Looks like it now, maybe abramovichs too focused on his court case. I thinks it's a good thing tbh.
    You have to wonder if AVB is rocking too many boats. Sounds like A.Cole and Lampard are both unhappy with him now. Unless you have a massive clear out in the summer, I don't see how you can keep both the unhappy players and AVB at the club.
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    (Original post by jam277)
    Na, You faced another team, where you needed to score 3 goals in 1 half or something and went through to the group stages.




    Looks like it now, maybe abramovichs too focused on his court case. I thinks it's a good thing tbh.
    Think your getting confused lad.

    We had to beat Olympiakos by 2 clear goals after trailing 1-0 at half time, but that was to qualify for the knockouts.

    We beat AK graz away from home and lost at Anfield to qualify for the group stage.
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    47.4% - AvB's win rate as Chelsea manager.

    Truly awful.
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    (Original post by R-KAM)
    47.4% - AvB's win rate as Chelsea manager.

    Truly awful.
    Made the move to a toxic environment too soon. Should've stayed at Porto a couple more years and gotton some CL experience first.
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    Even if we finish outside the top 4, I still reckon we'll have to stick with AVB. I had assumed that AVB had created the Porto team that won all 3 trophies last season, but turns out much of the credit is actually due to Porto's Director of Football, everything was there for AVB to do. I'm willing (just about) to see how he performs over the next 3 years and see what happens. However, out of all the managers we've had (other than Scolari), I think if we had to sack a manager it would have to be this guy (based on our current form), but Roman's bought him for quite a sum and he doesn't want to be left with egg on his face.

    I do have to question his team selections at time.. Tbh, Essien would have been perfect instead of Meireles yesterday. I think there's some evident bias going into his selections, he only seems to play those who are loyal to him, and his man management is poor, whatt he did to Anelka and Alex was out of order.
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    (Original post by Cable)
    Lol. I know that Chelsea strongly challenged for the PL with Avram and came close to winning the CL, but I think that had more to do with the players and Steve Clark. There were so many times when Avram looked clueless at chelsea and wasn't truly in charge.

    I agree that AVB has been bad so far (but the players must take some blame as well). There's no doubt that he has potential (e.g. his success with Porto). But at Chelsea, he has not consistently demonstrated that he is ready for the job. His team selections and tactics are generally poor, his substitutions are generally crap, chelsea's football is generally crap and their defence is shocking. On top of all that, their results have been appalling. He has taken a team that challenged for the league last year down to 5th so far. That's not good enough. He clearly deserves to be sacked at the end of the season imo.

    But even though I don't think he deserves the job next season, I still think he mustn't be sacked. Here's why:

    1) It would be too expensive to sack him.
    2) To avoid regrets. Like I said, he has good potential. If he learns from his mistakes next season, fulfils his potential and gets chelsea to be a good team again (after getting rid of crap players and getting his own players), then he can keep his job and save you money. But if chelsea are still crap next year, then you can sack him if there are good managers available.

    I think this is a better option because if you sack him this season and he goes to another top team and becomes successful, you could regret getting rid of him in the first place.

    So while I think he doesn't deserve the job as he's been poor so far, I don't think it would be very wise to sack him at the end of the season (unless he takes chelsea down to 6th/7th in the league).
    My sentiments exactly.
 
 
 
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