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    (Original post by Mastermind`)
    Cech is not a world class keeper. He used to be but he isn't anymore. He has been making regular mistakes in the Premiership this season. Stoke, Wigan, Aston Villa, and yesterday at Man City are some matches that spring to mind. Since that Reading incident he hasn't been the same. He is by far the weakest link in the Chelsea team.

    And a lot of Chelsea fans would agree with this.

    Agreed.

    Since his head injury, Cech has never been the same. He was pretty much a goalkeeping god prior to this. He is not remotely close to being as good as the likes of Given, Reina, Buffon, Casillas, VDS.

    To those who disagree with me/us, you'll find you won't have many people agreeing with your opinions on Cech. He has been a weak link ever since his head injury.
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    (Original post by Isometrix)
    surprised you haven't said Given :rolleyes:
    Given's just an out of this world shot stopper.
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    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    Agreed.

    Since his head injury, Cech has never been the same. He was pretty much a goalkeeping god prior to this. He is not remotely close to being as good as the likes of Given, Reina, Buffon, Casillas, VDS.

    To those who disagree with me/us, you'll find you won't have many people agreeing with your opinions on Cech. He has been a weak link ever since his head injury.
    If I was a Chelsea fan I'd be seriously worried because he's just been getting worse. We're not even at the halfway stage and he has made a lot of notable errors. The only thing that has saved him from criticism has been that Chelsea have been winning emphatically and playing good football.

    I'm not even sure he'd be in the top 10 GK's in the world atm. He'd probably just manage to creep in.
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    Let me get the old stats out:
    Year - Save to shot - catch success - drops - drops leading to goals.
    2004-05 83% 90% 7 0
    2005-06 76% 95% 3 1
    2006-07 86% 93% 2 0
    2007-08 76% 93% 4 3
    2008-09 78% 96% 5 1

    Enlighten me, becuase I can't see a massive difference before the injury and after.
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    (Original post by Mastermind`)
    If I was a Chelsea fan I'd be seriously worried because he's just been getting worse. We're not even at the halfway stage and he has made a lot of notable errors. The only thing that has saved him from criticism has been that Chelsea have been winning emphatically and playing good football.

    I'm not even sure he'd be in the top 10 GK's in the world atm. He'd probably just manage to creep in.
    He wouldn't be in a top 10 list, taking into account his form over the past 2-3 seasons. He's arguably living off the reputation he once had, a bit like Benitez in dining out on Istanbul and some of his other success in Europe.
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    People forget that Cech is only 27. VDS joined Man Utd at 34/35. It'd be stupid of us to replace Cech now.

    He's clearly not as good as he was. But I think it's just a matter of time before he returns to form. With the defense in front of him that, prior to yesterdays match hadn't conceded in 8 hours of football, I don't think we're in any real hurry to replace him.
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    Please could someone enlighten me.
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    (Original post by cfc1992)
    Let me get the old stats out:
    Year - Save to shot - catch success - drops - drops leading to goals -
    2004-05 83% 90% 7 0
    2005-06 76% 95% 3 1
    2006-07 86% 93% 2 0
    2007-08 76% 93% 4 3
    2008-09 78% 96% 5 1

    Enlighten me, becuase I can't see a massive difference before the injury and after.
    Stats can be sexed up, interpreted in different ways, reliable/unreliable sources, whatever. You don't need stats on this one. Cech simply does not have the aura he once had - he gets more criticism now and has done over the past 2 or so seasons, than he did do before then (essentially before his head injury). He's far from invincible and in some of his early years at Chelsea, he had that invincibility, that goalkeeping x-factor. He doesn't anymore and hasn't had it for quite some time. There are numerous GKs in world football who are better than Cech.
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    (Original post by Yawn-er)
    People forget that Cech is only 27. VDS joined Man Utd at 34/35. It'd be stupid of us to replace Cech now.

    He's clearly not as good as he was. But I think it's just a matter of time before he returns to form. With the defense in front of him that, prior to yesterdays match hadn't conceded in 8 hours of football, I don't think we're in any real hurry to replace him.
    it's been 2-3 seasons of reasonable form, nothing more than that.

    just how long are Chelsea prepared to wait for this return to form of his?
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    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    Stats can be sexed up, interpreted in different ways, reliable/unreliable sources, whatever. You don't need stats on this one. Cech simply does not have the aura he once had - he gets more criticism now and has done over the past 2 or so seasons, than he did do before then (essentially before his head injury). He's far from invincible and in some of his early years at Chelsea, he had that invincibility, that goalkeeping x-factor. He doesn't anymore and hasn't had it for quite some time. There are numerous GKs in world football who are better than Cech.
    Cool. Because the statistics don't match up to your arguement (based on the couple matches you watch a season probably) you want to dismiss them immediately. Nicely done.

    What you need to understand is that in the first couple of seasons Petr Cech was protected by a very defensive system put in place by Mourinho - a system that hasn't existed after his departure at all. He had to come to terms with Scolari's defensive system - that saw a lack of protection from the wings with the encouragement the full backs got to attack at every opportunity, along with having no players on the post and a zonal marking system that didn't work at all for us.

    Petr Cech has the best goalkeeping record in the PL this season, had either 1st/2nd best last season along with Van Der Sar and I wouldn't want any other goalkeeper in the world between the sticks at Stamford Bridge. Not by a long shot.
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    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    it's been 2-3 seasons of reasonable form, nothing more than that.

    just how long are Chelsea prepared to wait for this return to form of his?
    As long as it takes, bruv. Ditching a goalkeeper like Cech isn't an option, not when he's still 'young', and his goalkeeping record is still among the best, despite a few mistakes here and there.

    I do appreciate, howeverr, that he's not the best goalkeeper anymore, and that there are a few that're better than him.
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    (Original post by cfc1992)
    Cool. Because the statistics don't match up to your arguement (based on the couple matches you watch a season probably) you want to dismiss them immediately. Nicely done.

    What you need to understand is that in the first couple of seasons Petr Cech was protected by a very defensive system put in place by Mourinho - a system that hasn't existed after his departure at all. He had to come to terms with Scolari's defensive system - that saw a lack of protection from the wings with the encouragement the full backs got to attack at every opportunity, along with having no players on the post and a zonal marking system that didn't work at all for us.

    Petr Cech has the best goalkeeping record in the PL this season, had either 1st/2nd best last season along with Van Der Sar and I wouldn't want any other goalkeeper in the world between the sticks at Stamford Bridge. Not by a long shot.
    You're deluding yourself if you think Cech is as good as he once was.

    In regard to this defensive system/protective layer:

    Well, in which case, there's this lessening of a protective layer, his goalkeeping ability is being more involved and his averageness (in comparison to the GKs named below) is being exposed for all to see - hence these numerous errors he's making. Time to look at the market and to see who's available or who could do a better job than Cech. To insist that you'd not prefer the likes of Buffon, Casillas, Given, Reina and the like, over Cech, in goal - it's frankly bizarre, if not laughable.
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    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    You're deluding yourself if you think Cech is as good as he once was.

    In regard to this defensive system/protective layer:

    Well, in which case, there's this lessening of a protective layer, his goalkeeping ability is being more involved and his averageness (in comparison to the GKs named below) is being exposed for all to see - hence these numerous errors he's making. Time to look at the market and to see who's available or who could do a better job than Cech. To insist that you'd not prefer the likes of Buffon, Casillas, Given, Reina and the like, over Cech, in goal - it's frankly bizarre, if not laughable.
    I think watching Chelsea 50+ times a season and Petr Cech 50+ times a season, I can make an accurate comment on Petr Cech, at least more accurate than you can. I'm not biased towards him because he's a Chelsea player by any means, I'm more than happy to criticise Chelsea players if they aren't performing. Cech, however, certainly is.

    It bemuses me how an average goalkeeper is consistently performing within the top two defensive records in the past 2 and a bit seasons, enlighten me. (Of course he was bossing them before as well, but apparently he isn't good anymore).

    Averageness? I think you're forgetting Reina's numerous errors down the seasons for Liverpool, he's had a few embarrasing moments. Given... show us ya medals. :rolleyes:
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    He isn't as good as he once was. I'm standing by this. There are better goalkeepers than Cech and Given is certainly one of them. You'd most probably have won more medals if Given was your GK. He was exposed alot at Newcastle because of the mediocre quality of the players in front of him and even this season at an improved Man City set-up, he's had his work cut out and excelled consistently. A bad day at the office for Given is almost unheard of. Same can't be said for Cech.

    Your assertion that you'd prefer Cech to remain inbetween the sticks for Chelsea, instead of Given and co = ROFL. People I know who are proper football people, don't spout ****e and are capable of being objective and balanced, they'd truly piss themselves laughing at such a comment. And I'm not exaggerating for effect.

    Off shopping, perhaps for some of that crumble pie Cech has when dealing with crosses. Any recommendations for pie? :cool:
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    [QUOTE=white_haired_wizard capable of being objective[/QUOTE]
    The statistics I posted up aren't objective? The only one not capable of being objective and balanced is you. Completely dismissive of statistics, relying on your subjective opinion of Petr Cech. Honestly, how many times a season do you watch him?

    Perhaps he set himself such high standards in the first season, any marginal error he makes now is highlighted - where as any marginal error that Reina or Buffon and co makes it looked past. Mistakes are inveitable, and every goalkeeper makes them.
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    (Original post by cfc1992)
    The statistics I posted up aren't objective? The only one not capable of being objective and balanced is you. Completely dismissive of statistics, relying on your subjective opinion of Petr Cech. Honestly, how many times a season do you watch him?

    Perhaps he set himself such high standards in the first season, any marginal error he makes now is highlighted - where as any marginal error that Reina or Buffon and co makes it looked past. Mistakes are inveitable, and every goalkeeper makes them.
    You're getting there now - I believe you're slowly coming round to acknowledging that Cech isn't as good as he was. I've planted a seed of doubt in your mind and that seed is flowering.
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    (Original post by white_haired_wizard)
    You're getting there now - I believe you're slowly coming round to acknowledging that Cech isn't as good as he was. I've planted a seed of doubt in your mind and that seed is flowering.
    I have full confidence in Petr Cech.
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    (Original post by cfc1992)
    I have full confidence in Petr Cech.
    one that is misplaced Bit like his positioning for the Tevez goal yesterday. I'm sure there are other examples but I feel my work is done in this thread today.
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    Despite his form he's still a top class goalkeeper. World class is debatable since his injury as people have said but he's still better than most which is good, considering this league has quite a few excellent goalkeepers.
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