Relationships without sex Watch

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SamTheMan
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#121
Report 13 years ago
#121
Look, wanderer you're 17. I'm 23. We're bound to have totally different views on this anyway. Not that your opinion isn't worth less than mine: the fatalistic and blasé view that a lot of older people take isn't necessarily better. However, in my case, I probably take on a slightly different stance, that I like to be slightly more optimistic.

I don't think I've denied any view in particular. I might have criticised quite strongly a claim that went something along the lines "It's alright to decide to sleep with a lot of people. It's alright to sleep as soon as possible with someone because in some cases, it turns out alright". I personally find this view the most extreme I've seen in the whole thread. I also find views such as "Your first time will be crap so it doesn't matter who it will be" very extreme and worrying, although that view hasn't been expressed in this thread. There's also the view that going from one casual relationship to the other won't reduce your chances of having a proper, serious relationship in the near future.
Why these views don't get a fierce reaction is a) anyone who has moral beliefs about sex shies away from the debate; b) these are views that reassure a lot of people. It allows everyone to be easy on themselves.

If someone told me that to succeed at my A-levels, it doesn't matter if I **** about during the whole of high-school, I'd rather hear that than someone stress me out about the fact that I might need to work hard to get a solid basis.

(Original post by wanderer)
Because, of course, your personal experience applies to everyone. Again you're looking at one end of a spectrum. If you were just saying 'don't expect to just shag anyone and have no negative emotional consequences, its not that simple,' I'd agree completely. But that doesn't lead straight to the attitude that says the only reasonable way of doing things is to take a highly conservative attitude to sex, with the whole 'special someone' thing. I also find the implication that people who do take that attitude are doing something special that makes them superior to others offensive.
I'm glad that you actually get my point and summed it up quite well in "Don't expect to just shag anyone and have no negative emotional consequences". That really is the main point I was trying to get across.

However, of course my view is based on personal experience! Everyone's is. Anyone who isn't talking from personal experience (by personal, I don't necessarily mean your own), doesn't know what they're talking about. The view that people take on this, will be determined completely by their past: have a look at the thread and note that a lot of people who have agreed with the idea that "sleeping around has no consequences and the day you decide you want a serious relationship, it'll be easy!" are those for whom, the idea is very reassuring because of their past.

The "special someone" thing is not a conservative attitude. I used that expression instead of using soppy words like "love" that most people when they're 17 or 18, claim they're not looking for. "Special someone" just meant someone who you have strong feelings for and with whom you have a serious relationship with. It's hardly conservative.

I think my view has been excessively misinterpreted by a few, because people are only used to black and white views (anyone who thinks that my views are black and white are truly mistaken): you either hear people tell you about the joys of casual sex and others that tell you "No sex before marriage". So as soon as I claim that not being very careful with whom you sleep with is a bad idea, some people start thinking I've taken on a conservative view, that I must be on the side of those who believe in "No sex before marriage". Again, to those who say the debate shouldn't be black and white, practice what you preach.
Excuse me? What's the world coming to if that's a conservative view?

If I were to summarize my views:

- You don't necessarily have to wait a long time to sleep with a new partner
- "no sex before marriage" is not one of my views. Although I respect people who apply this idea, it really isn't compatible with my way of seeing things

However

- I believe that casual sex, sleeping around or not being careful with whom you sleep with, affects your chances of finding someone to get into a serious relationship later on. You don't switch from casual relationships to a serious relationship that easily.
- Young people (let's say 16/17 and under)'s judgement when it comes to these things is not as good as adults. That's why they should be more careful than adults, not the other way around.
- Your first time doesn't have to be crap and with some randomer.
- Sometimes people will just want you for sex because you're not attractive/interesting enough for them to want to go out with you. The majority of the time When someone says "I'm not ready for a relationship", that's actually what it means.
- You should never feel like you have to sleep with someone getting impatient, to be accepted. That's not being sexually repressed. In the long run, a person who is picky about who he/she sleeps with, will be more pursued.
- Having lots of partners (mostly casual, although a lot of people have casual boyfriends/girlfriends) and your sexual past might affect a future partner. It doesn't mean they will dump you, that's unlikely but it's likely it will affect the way they see you. To not accept that, is immature and wishful thinking. In casual relationships, this doesn't matter too much but in a serious relationship, it might.

I hope that clarifies my views. Basically, I think that using your head is very important. If you want to mess around, go ahead but accept that there might be emotional consequences. If you can't accept the consequences, should you be having sex?
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marcusfox
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#122
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#122
Personally I'd prefer to get to know someone before I slept with her. And yes, if I knew that she'd had a lot of one night stands, it would put me off in a big way, but it's not the be all and end all. I really don't go in for the whole one-night-stand thing.

It's not as though I don't have the opportunity - I work in a nightclub and there's always plenty to choose from.

Generally though, I find there's always something wrong with the kind of woman that does that when it comes to looking for a girlfriend, people are always going on "How can you be single when you work in a nightclub with all those available women?"

Perhaps I'm setting my standards too high...

Marcus
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SamTheMan
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#123
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#123
(Original post by marcusfox)
Personally I'd prefer to get to know someone before I slept with her. And yes, if I knew that she'd had a lot of one night stands, it would put me off in a big way, but it's not the be all and end all. I really don't go in for the whole one-night-stand thing.

It's not as though I don't have the opportunity - I work in a nightclub and there's always plenty to choose from.

Generally though, I find there's always something wrong with the kind of woman that does that when it comes to looking for a girlfriend, people are always going on "How can you be single when you work in a nightclub with all those available women?"

Perhaps I'm setting my standards too high...

Marcus
Girls don't slip you their number discretely? That's bound to happen sometimes...

and generally there is a problem with the type of girl who goes on a lot of one-night stands: they're totally messed up emotionally.
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dave
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#124
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#124
(Original post by marcusfox)
Perhaps I'm setting my standards too high...

Marcus
I don't think you are - I think you're just setting your standards.
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marcusfox
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#125
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#125
(Original post by SamTheMan)
Girls don't slip you their number discretely? That's bound to happen sometimes...

and generally there is a problem with the type of girl who goes on a lot of one-night stands: they're totally messed up emotionally.
They do, I just see that usually I'm not interested in them. Where I work, we're the only club, and the people I see are the same, week in, week out. My workstation allows me to see who's going home with whom. Different men with different women in one massive love web. For most of them, I would just be another number. I wouldn't mind being number two, or even three or a few more, but the thought of... it's unthinkable.

I'm not looking for that type of relationship. I will concede that I'm not good looking, which severely limits my opportunities, but I just want to meet someone interested in something that will develop into a relationship at some point, after I've gotten to know them, which, let's be honest, most women who go to a place like the place where I work aren't looking for, the majority only want one thing.

I have considered going with someone just for sex, but didn't, because I wouldn't respect the person after, or myself for behaving in that manner. Is it wrong to feel that way?

Marcus
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wanderer
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#126
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#126
(Original post by SamTheMan)
Look, wanderer you're 17. I'm 23. We're bound to have totally different views on this anyway. Not that your opinion isn't worth less than mine: the fatalistic and blasé view that a lot of older people take isn't necessarily better. However, in my case, I probably take on a slightly different stance, that I like to be slightly more optimistic.

I don't think I've denied any view in particular. I might have criticised quite strongly a claim that went something along the lines "It's alright to decide to sleep with a lot of people. It's alright to sleep as soon as possible with someone because in some cases, it turns out alright". I personally find this view the most extreme I've seen in the whole thread. I also find views such as "Your first time will be crap so it doesn't matter who it will be" very extreme and worrying, although that view hasn't been expressed in this thread. There's also the view that going from one casual relationship to the other won't reduce your chances of having a proper, serious relationship in the near future.
Why these views don't get a fierce reaction is a) anyone who has moral beliefs about sex shies away from the debate; b) these are views that reassure a lot of people. It allows everyone to be easy on themselves.

If someone told me that to succeed at my A-levels, it doesn't matter if I **** about during the whole of high-school, I'd rather hear that than someone stress me out about the fact that I might need to work hard to get a solid basis.



I'm glad that you actually get my point and summed it up quite well in "Don't expect to just shag anyone and have no negative emotional consequences". That really is the main point I was trying to get across.

However, of course my view is based on personal experience! Everyone's is. Anyone who isn't talking from personal experience (by personal, I don't necessarily mean your own), doesn't know what they're talking about. The view that people take on this, will be determined completely by their past: have a look at the thread and note that a lot of people who have agreed with the idea that "sleeping around has no consequences and the day you decide you want a serious relationship, it'll be easy!" are those for whom, the idea is very reassuring because of their past.

The "special someone" thing is not a conservative attitude. I used that expression instead of using soppy words like "love" that most people when they're 17 or 18, claim they're not looking for. "Special someone" just meant someone who you have strong feelings for and with whom you have a serious relationship with. It's hardly conservative.

I think my view has been excessively misinterpreted by a few, because people are only used to black and white views (anyone who thinks that my views are black and white are truly mistaken): you either hear people tell you about the joys of casual sex and others that tell you "No sex before marriage". So as soon as I claim that not being very careful with whom you sleep with is a bad idea, some people start thinking I've taken on a conservative view, that I must be on the side of those who believe in "No sex before marriage". Again, to those who say the debate shouldn't be black and white, practice what you preach.
Excuse me? What's the world coming to if that's a conservative view?

If I were to summarize my views:

- You don't necessarily have to wait a long time to sleep with a new partner
- "no sex before marriage" is not one of my views. Although I respect people who apply this idea, it really isn't compatible with my way of seeing things

However

- I believe that casual sex, sleeping around or not being careful with whom you sleep with, affects your chances of finding someone to get into a serious relationship later on. You don't switch from casual relationships to a serious relationship that easily.
- Young people (let's say 16/17 and under)'s judgement when it comes to these things is not as good as adults. That's why they should be more careful than adults, not the other way around.
- Your first time doesn't have to be crap and with some randomer.
- Sometimes people will just want you for sex because you're not attractive/interesting enough for them to want to go out with you. The majority of the time When someone says "I'm not ready for a relationship", that's actually what it means.
- You should never feel like you have to sleep with someone getting impatient, to be accepted. That's not being sexually repressed. In the long run, a person who is picky about who he/she sleeps with, will be more pursued.
- Having lots of partners (mostly casual, although a lot of people have casual boyfriends/girlfriends) and your sexual past might affect a future partner. It doesn't mean they will dump you, that's unlikely but it's likely it will affect the way they see you. To not accept that, is immature and wishful thinking. In casual relationships, this doesn't matter too much but in a serious relationship, it might.

I hope that clarifies my views. Basically, I think that using your head is very important. If you want to mess around, go ahead but accept that there might be emotional consequences. If you can't accept the consequences, should you be having sex?
I apologise, I've misjudged you. I can agree with a lot of that, and what I don't agree with I can accept as a different point of view. I'm sorry I took your views to be more extreme than they were - thanks for clearing things up.
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khil
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#127
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#127
(Original post by marcusfox)
I have considered going with someone just for sex, but didn't, because I wouldn't respect the person after, or myself for behaving in that manner. Is it wrong to feel that way?

Marcus
I wouldn't respect someone who would just sleep with anyone, personally - I don't think I'd end up making friends with that sorta people - not that I won't be friends with them but I don't think we'd get on - views are way too different and personality probably wouldn't be all that similar either... this is a generalisation, btw. Although it's also true that it seems all my friends, IRL or online - have always been people who take this stuff seriously enough not to sleep around. Just the sort of people I end up meeting - who are all generally extremely nice too!
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SamTheMan
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#128
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#128
(Original post by wanderer)
I apologise, I've misjudged you. I can agree with a lot of that, and what I don't agree with I can accept as a different point of view. I'm sorry I took your views to be more extreme than they were - thanks for clearing things up.
Well I wouldn't expect you to have the exact same points of view anyway.
The trouble is, no matter how much this is discussed, we can only use our own experiences. Since we don't all have the same experiences, and we don't see the same things, we're bound to be different.
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~MOi~
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#129
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#129
Wow! Amzing speech. You are the perfect one to make one.

Butch.
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Moonsketch
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#130
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#130
The best way to go is hold off on the emotional sentimental gushy love thing till after marriage. I know that is may feel real good to hold hands, hug, kiss, and maybe even going further then that... but it is not necessary and will most of the time mess up the relationship. Love is a commitment and not really a feeling. If you choose to love somebody then you care about them very much and have there best interests in mind. Love is patient, love is kind. It does not envy, it does not boast, it is not proud. It is not rude, it is not self-seeking, it is not easily angered, it keeps no record of wrongs. Love does not delight in evil but rejoices with the truth. It always protects, always trusts, always hopes, always perseveres. Love never fails. There is the emotional side of love that can easily be confused with lust. If you cant never keep your hands off the person that you are dating then something is wrong there... you are acting on lust and not love. I think that is what is most commonly wrong with teen relationships. They dont understand enough and dont have enough wisdom to have a decent and proper relationship with somebody. This will probably make sense to those who are ready for a serious and long lasting relationship, not those who are "out to score". But everytime you have a relationship with somebody you kind of lose part of yourself, so to speak. Think about it... if you look at someone who hasnt been with anyone, or maybe 1 person then dont they have alot more to offer then someone who has been with dozens of people. It is important not to go around geting yourself into a relationship that you are unsure of just for the sake of it, but wait for one that feels right to come along. Alot of people say that it is good to have dated alot of people for the experience. That is stupid statement... I think it is safe to say that we all want to find the perfect person for us. Now if that person comes along and you have been with alot of other people then that could definatly screw up your chances with that "perfect" person. That is why I think it is best not to rush into a relationship and not to move to fast once you are in one. Hopefully this makes sense to most of you. I know this way of going about things works.
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