Attacks on Muslims have soared in London since the 7 July bombings Watch

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andyukguy
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#81
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#81
(Original post by ayaan)
You obviously don't understand Islam, this man isn't the pope, anyone can say they're 'prominant'.

I, myself as a 'prominant' figure in the muslim community, demand that all attacks on Britain stop.

Happy now?
When your sentiments get televised to the whole of the middle east then yes I'll be happy.

Andrew
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Scheherazade
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#82
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#82
(Original post by andyukguy)
When your sentiments get televised to the whole of the middle east then yes I'll be happy.

Andrew
But the attackers were British.
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The Watcher
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#83
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#83
(Original post by ayaan)
But the attackers were British.
They weren't really British, only what liberals would consider to be British.
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andyukguy
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#84
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#84
(Original post by ayaan)
But the attackers were British.
No they weren't, not in my eyes. Anyway, even if they were what does that have to do with the fact televised broadcasts with this kind of content are being broadcast to the biggest group of Muslims on earth?

Andrew
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Scheherazade
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#85
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#85
(Original post by andyukguy)
No they weren't, not in my eyes. Anyway, even if they were what does that have to do with the fact televised broadcasts with this kind of content are being broadcast to the biggest group of Muslims on earth?

Andrew
It might be more effective to broadcast in Britain. Without getting into another 'are muslims british?' bit, they at least lived here.
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Tonight Matthew
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#86
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#86
(Original post by andyukguy)
*slow claps*

I've see you've grasped reading.

That and other factors, like the killing of these innocent people: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/shared/spl/h...ms/default.stm

You've got to question Muslims when a prominent (not any old man) one starts preaching that crap. Remember, what he says, a lot of Muslims will do. Not all, but a lot.

Open your eyes.

Andrew
Uhh, I assumed that was what you were saying, but I thought I'd give you the chance to deny that you were blaming attacks that happened LAST month on a comment that came about TODAY. *slow claps*
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andyukguy
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#87
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#87
You're not making much sense - I hope it is broadcast in Britain, it will swell national pride and resentment of "terrorists".

Andrew
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Scheherazade
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#88
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#88
(Original post by andyukguy)
You're not making much sense - I hope it is broadcast in Britain, it will swell national pride and resentment of "terrorists".

Andrew
Huh? I think you're talking about something totally different to me.
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Weejimmie
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#89
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#89
(Original post by The Watcher)
They weren't really British, only what liberals would consider to be British.
If someone has a British passport they're British.
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cheesecakebobby
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#90
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#90
RE: the figures about Muslims sympathising with bombers, and several thousand willing to blow themselves up.

If I was living in a country where I was often spat and sneered at and received racial abuse, a country where newspapers used me as a scapegoat to create sensationalist stories, a country where I was treated as a second class citizen, a country who willingly invades my homeland, killing thousands of innocents and desecrating all I care about, a country where political groups existed with a main aim to have people like myself deported back to someplace unlivable, a country where thousands of impressionable, idiotic students gathered on web forums to make ignorant comments and act like a jackass towards me and my people-

I think I could have some sympathy for anyone willing to fight back, even if I thought it was the wrong way about it.
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Alexdel
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#91
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#91
(Original post by cheesecakebobby)
RE: the figures about Muslims sympathising with bombers, and several thousand willing to blow themselves up.

If I was living in a country where I was often spat and sneered at and received racial abuse, a country where newspapers used me as a scapegoat to create sensationalist stories, a country where I was treated as a second class citizen, a country who willingly invades my homeland, killing thousands of innocents and desecrating all I care about, a country where political groups existed with a main aim to have people like myself deported back to someplace unlivable, a country where thousands of impressionable, idiotic students gathered on web forums to make ignorant comments and act like a jackass towards me and my people-

I think I could have some sympathy for anyone willing to fight back, even if I thought it was the wrong way about it.
Hear hear...
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Tyler Durden
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#92
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#92
(Original post by cheesecakebobby)
RE: the figures about Muslims sympathising with bombers, and several thousand willing to blow themselves up.

If I was living in a country where I was often spat and sneered at and received racial abuse,
This is about religion and not race though. Yes, Muslims receive some abuse in this country but there have been far more cases since the bombings so it's a pretty bad move from that perspective.

Besides, idiots who discriminate against people on the ground of their faith are dealt with severely. The government is in the process of pushing through a bill against religious hatred. It's not all hardship for Muslims in Britain.

There are also plenty of people who have it bad but who don't resort to suicide bombings. Why are there not Hindu or Sikh bombers if this is to do with race (you're presumably talking about discrimination against immigrants from Asian countries?)

(Original post by cheesecakebobby)
a country where newspapers used me as a scapegoat to create sensationalist stories
The Daily Mail? Everyone knows that's a pile of **** anyway. I think the media offers a pretty fair perspective on the whole. Anyway who needs sensationalist stories when you have terrorists blowing themselves up every fortnight?


(Original post by cheesecakebobby)
, a country where I was treated as a second class citizen,
A country which offers freedom of speech, freedom of worship, freedom to work whichever job you want, freedom to a fair trial, a country which doesn't torture criminal suspects, a country where no one need die of hunger, a country which offers vast social security for those who cannot get by alone. I'd rather be a "second class citizen" (whatever that actually means) in England that in Iran or Afghanistan.

(Original post by cheesecakebobby)
a country who willingly invades my homeland, killing thousands of innocents and desecrating all I care about,
Iraq was a secular country before the invasion. It is now being led by men with Islamist leanings. Surely in the eyes of a Muslim suicide bomber with aspirations for the global caliphate this is a good thing. Yes, there has been loss of innocent life in Iraq - huge loss - and I think the war was a mistake. Nevertheless I don't see how it can be anything more than a cover for the real reasons for the attacks (namely hatred of the West). September 11th was before the Iraq war - people seem keen to forget that.

(Original post by cheesecakebobby)
a country where political groups existed with a main aim to have people like myself deported back to someplace unlivable,
Parties like the BNP which receive widespread ridicule - ridicule which is reflected in elections.


(Original post by cheesecakebobby)
a country where thousands of impressionable, idiotic students gathered on web forums to make ignorant comments and act like a jackass towards me and my people-
Haha, that's a very thinly veiled insult. To be honest you sound like the impressionable and idiotic student - not to mention naive. I also find it quite amusing how much time you spend on this webforum which is so full of "idiots". The quality of debate on this site is very high I would argue.

(Original post by cheesecakebobby)
I think I could have some sympathy for anyone willing to fight back, even if I thought it was the wrong way about it.
Who are they fighting back against? Against the millions of Londoners who marched through London to protest against the war? Against innocent people who have no real say in governmental policy? Against an electorate who punished the man who took us to war? Do you sympathis with the terrorists then? It IS the wrong way about it, the backlash against Asians (not even just Muslims) is unfortunately already happening.
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ArthurOliver
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#93
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#93
(Original post by cheesecakebobby)
If I was living in a country where I was often spat and sneered at and received racial abuse, a country where newspapers used me as a scapegoat to create sensationalist stories, a country where I was treated as a second class citizen, a country who willingly invades my homeland, killing thousands of innocents and desecrating all I care about, a country where political groups existed with a main aim to have people like myself deported back to someplace unlivable, a country where thousands of impressionable, idiotic students gathered on web forums to make ignorant comments and act like a jackass towards me and my people-

I think I could have some sympathy for anyone willing to fight back, even if I thought it was the wrong way about it.
Pretty much making the case for White nationalism there...reread your post with an open mind.
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cheesecakebobby
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#94
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#94
(Original post by englishstudent)
This is about religion and not race though. Yes, Muslims receive some abuse in this country but there have been far more cases since the bombings so it's a pretty bad move from that perspective.

Besides, idiots who discriminate against people on the ground of their faith are dealt with severely. The government is in the process of pushing through a bill against religious hatred. It's not all hardship for Muslims in Britain.
Of course, but doesn't change the fact that when stuff like that happens, Mulsims are going to feel victimised- I'm quite aware its not lynchings in the street.

There are also plenty of people who have it bad but who don't resort to suicide bombings. Why are there not Hindu or Sikh bombers if this is to do with race (you're presumably talking about immigrants from Asian countries?)
Its bad for them too, I'm not condoning bombings I'm merely offering an explanation as to why Muslims may (as many certainly do not) sympathise with bombers- they may share the same beliefs as the bombers (not just religious ones), but differ in their opinion of what is the best course of action to take. I could sympathise with a rape victim murdering the rapist, but I wouldn't support murder of any type.

The Daily Mail? Everyone knows that's a pile of **** anyway. I think the media offers a pretty fair perspective on the whole. Anyway who needs sensationalist stories when you have terrorists blowing themselves up every fortnight?
Your job obviously doesn't involve handling every newspaper most days of the week. And judging by the selling figures for the above paper, not everyone thinks its a pile of asterixes. Unfortunately there are stupid people who will believe stupid things.


A country which offers freedom of speech, freedom of worship, freedom to work whichever job you want, freedom to a fair trial, a country which doesn't torture criminal suspects, a country where no one need die of hunger, a country which offers vast social security for those who cannot get by alone. I'd rather be a "second class citizen" (whatever that actually means) in England that in Iran or Afghanistan.
I'd rather not be a second class citizen anywhere. I'm not saying Britain is a sh*thole, I'm saying many sh*tholes live in Britain and can raise anger in the non-sh*tholes.

Iraq was a secular country before the invasion. It is now being led by men with Islamist leanings. Surely in the eyes of a Muslim suicide bomber with aspirations for the global caliphate this is a good thing. Yes, there has been loss of innocent life in Iraq - huge loss - and I think the war was a mistake. Nevertheless I don't see how it can be anything more than a cover for the real reasons for the attacks (namely hatred of the West). September 11th was before the Iraq war - people seem keen to forget that.
I thought suicide bombers were cold-hearted idiots without a mind of their own? Don't they just see the US and UK led liberation as an anti-Islamic invasion? My point is that regardless of the facts, if you live in a country which attacks your homeland, theres a high chance it won't make you too happy. I would hope that the majority of British Muslims are intelligent enough to see the Iraq war as something other than an attack by the west on Islam, but there is an unavoidable aspect of patriotism which can cause sympathy to the terrorists as rebels- albeit rebels fighting the wrong war.

Parties like the BNP which receive widespread ridicule - ridicule which is reflected in elections.
How many votes did the "we hate white people don't let them into our country" party get this year? Oh right there isn't one. Put yourself into the shoes of an Islamic immigrant- you wouldn't feel too welcome.


Haha, that's a very thinly veiled insult. To be honest you sound like the impressionable and idiotic student - not to mention naive. I also find it quite amusing how much time you spend on this webforum which is so full of "idiots". The quality of debate on this site is very high I would argue.
Sorry, I won't veil it at all next time. I have considered you one of the free-thinking members of TSR, I will put this down to misinterpretation. My point is that people shouldn't try to debate about things they have no real understanding or experience of- those are the people I call idiots.

Who are they fighting back against? Against the millions of Londoners who marched through London to protest against the war? Against innocent people who have no real say in governmental policy? Against an electorate who punished the man who took us to war? Do you sympathis with the terrorists then? It IS the wrong way about it, the backlash against Asians (not even just Muslims) is unfortunately already happening.
You must realise that not eveyone considers it that way. A victim of race crime or any type of illogical crime which involves discrimination on no grounds whatsoever is not going to be ecstatic at the sight of students marching through London. Please don't suggest I sympathise with terrorists, I merely understand why a peaceful Muslim may not speak out against them as strongly as a peaceful white Brit.
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cheesecakebobby
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#95
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#95
(Original post by ArthurOliver)
Pretty much making the case for White nationalism there...reread your post with an open mind.
I'd say thats a bit extreme, but its a point. I guess I feel some sypmathy for those who might be white nationalists- I could understand why someone who has lost their job to cheap immigrant labour and who is afraid to walk alone at night because there are more gangs than before roaming the streets would feel anger. However, I do not believe it to be as bad in general, and I certainly wouldn't sympathise with a BNP voter because they simply don't like black people, for example.
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Tyler Durden
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#96
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#96
Ok, well I do see your point. The way I see it though is that you have people from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, The Maldives, Bhutan etc who come to Britain. Amongst them you have Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists etc. The type of person who is likely to hassle someone on the basis of their skin colour is not going to bother finding out what their ethnic or religious background is. So whether it's a follower of Jainism originally from India or a Hindu who came from The Maldives or a Muslim who came from Pakistan there will be no difference. The BNP target people on their ethnicity. The idiot in the street who starts shouting "Paki" or worse, "Let's go f*** up some Pakis" doesn't care if their victim worships Allah or is a follower of Hinduism.

My point then is that it seems odd that the only terrorists who are attacking all over the place (New York, Casablanca, Bali, Madrid, London) are Muslims if this is about how ethnic minorities are being treated. Yes, they might be ideologically misguided but surely an ordinary Muslim should see through that. I don't for one moment believe that a Sikh in Britain would have greater sympathy with the bombers than a white person (however much persecution they may have faced for having the "wrong" colour skin). So that begs the question, why do Muslims have this ambivalent attitude towards the terrorists. What worries me is that it's nothing to do with how they're treated here but because the ultimate aim of Islamic extremists (to unite the world under the banner of Islam) seems tempting.
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Howard
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#97
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#97
(Original post by englishstudent)
Ok, well I do see your point. The way I see it though is that you have people from India, Pakistan, Bangladesh, Sri Lanka, The Maldives, Bhutan etc who come to Britain. Amongst them you have Muslims, Hindus, Sikhs, Jains, Buddhists etc. The type of person who is likely to hassle someone on the basis of their skin colour is not going to bother finding out what their ethnic or religious background is. So whether it's a follower of Jainism originally from India or a Hindu who came from The Maldives or a Muslim who came from Pakistan there will be no difference. The BNP target people on their ethnicity. The idiot in the street who starts shouting "Paki" or worse, "Let's go f*** up some Pakis" doesn't care if their victim worships Allah or is a follower of Hinduism.
Must you use such racist language? I know you're only trying to get your point across but I for one am outraged that you felt the need to do so in such a graphic way.
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Tyler Durden
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#98
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#98
(Original post by Howard)
Must you use such racist language? I know you're only trying to get your point across but I for one am outraged that you felt the need to do so in such a graphic way.
Report my post then. (I'm not going to do it for you :rolleyes: )

And if you really think I am being racist then you should probably give your GP a call.
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Made in the USA
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#99
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#99
(Original post by thebucketwoman)
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/london/4740015.stm

Inevitable I suppose, being that there are so many unable to distinguish between a normal peace loving Muslim and an extremist.
Very interesting...269 religious hate crimes, which is a 6-fold increase.

What about the hate crimes commited against non-muslims?
Why not compile statistics that include the religious hate crime that resulted in 52 deaths and over 700 injuries resulting from the 7/7 bombings. Muslims aren't the only victims of religious hate crimes, despite what the BBC wants the public to think.
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Vienna
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#100
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#100
(Original post by Vienna)
Any statistic in particular?

Lets have a look at some comments then...

"If they don't like our way of life, there is a simple remedy: go to another country, get out," Mr Howarth said. Asked what if these people were born in Britain, he replied: "Tough. If you don't give allegiance to this country, then leave."

He added: "There are plenty of other countries whose way of life would appear to be more conducive to what they aspire to. They would be happy and we would be happy."

This was the overwhelming view of people he spoke to, the Tory MP for Aldershot added.

Mr Howarth compared those who despised British values to the traitors who spied for Russia. The shadow defence minister also criticised his colleague, Dominic Grieve, the shadow attorney general, who suggested the suicide bombings were "explicable" by the anger many British Muslims felt over the war and the state of Islam.

Mr Howarth stressed that the majority of Muslims did adhere to British values and described how the Union Flag had been flown at a meeting he had with Muslims over the weekend. However, his remarks were condemned as "arrogant" and "naive" by the Muslim Association of Britain.

Its spokesman, Anas Altikriti, compared the Tory defence spokesman to those who carried out the attacks on London, saying: "They bombed in order to eliminate people, while he is proposing to eliminate people by deporting them."

He also questioned to which country Mr Howarth proposed Muslims should go, as there were no Muslim countries as such, just Muslim people.


So the so-called moderate Muslim Council of Britain denounce his comments, distort them, compare him to a suicide bomber and then pretend that there are no Islamic states or countries that promote Sharia law on the face of this planet. The MCB does not believe that a complete disregard for Britain is a good enough reason to leave the country? Britons who agree with Mr.Howarth, I would assume a great many, are arrogant and no better than suicide bombers? The fact that the government sounds more like the MCB than Mr.Howarth and the rest of the population is of great concern.
http://dailyablution.blogs.com/the_d...tion_deba.html

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