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    (Original post by hildabeast)
    I'm sorry, what??? How many asylum seekers do you know who got a 'crisis loan' to buy a car??? They do not get more benefits than unemployed British citizens; in fact they get considerably less. All British citizens have the right to statutory jobseekers' allowance, and the money spent on this far exceeds that spent on benefits given to asylum seekers.

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    yes....tigtig TENDs to make no sense.....its not ONLY you that is confused!
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    (Original post by zizero)
    What the hell is a 'socialist liberal'???

    I always thought 'liberal' was the opposite of 'socialist'.
    a socialist is someone who belives in socialism (going up to all the way far left to anarchism) and a Liberal (believing in the power of individuals).The doctrine of pluralism - diverse and competing power groups - which lies at the heart of a liberal democracy, leans liberalism towards collectivism.

    by that i tried to group all left wingers
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    (Original post by hildabeast)
    I'm sorry, what??? How many asylum seekers do you know who got a 'crisis loan' to buy a car??? They do not get more benefits than unemployed British citizens; in fact they get considerably less. All British citizens have the right to statutory jobseekers' allowance, and the money spent on this far exceeds that spent on benefits given to asylum seekers.

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    I guess this is another example of the right wing trying to scare us with lies to try and demonize asylum seekers. The silly thing is that people believe it because most of them need someone to blame for their own state of affairs.
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    (Original post by pkonline)
    I guess this is another example of the right wing trying to scare us with lies to try and demonize asylum seekers. The silly thing is that people believe it because most of them need someone to blame for their own state of affairs.
    i hope that was a response to TIGTIG being ridiculous and not hildabeast
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    (Original post by JSM)
    a socialist is someone who belives in socialism (going up to all the way far left to anarchism) and a Liberal (believing in the power of individuals).The doctrine of pluralism - diverse and competing power groups - which lies at the heart of a liberal democracy, leans liberalism towards collectivism.

    by that i tried to group all left wingers
    Collectivism is the opposite of individualism. So, socialist can hardly be reconciled with liberalism.

    Basically, a socialist is someone who believes that the state knows best, whereas a liberal is someone who believes individual should make their own decisions.

    I don't think you can range liberals among the left. Their economic policy very much resembles that of the right, whereas their civil rights position resemble that of the left.

    You seem to use the American definition of 'liberal', whereby a liberal is the opposite of a conservative and therefore left-wing. That's why you put liberals and socialists together.
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    (Original post by curryADD)
    i hope that was a response to TIGTIG being ridiculous and not hildabeast
    Yep it was!
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    (Original post by hildabeast)
    I'm sorry, what??? How many asylum seekers do you know who got a 'crisis loan' to buy a car??? They do not get more benefits than unemployed British citizens; in fact they get considerably less. All British citizens have the right to statutory jobseekers' allowance, and the money spent on this far exceeds that spent on benefits given to asylum seekers.

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    what briton gets a rent free semi-detached house with free energy, maintenance, tv licence, a 22 inch colour tv, cooking equipment, appliances, window cleaning. what briton can demand of their landlord to install child-proof apparatus, decorate, lay new carpet and fix damage and repairs within a 48hr time period?

    source: Asylum Seekers Tenant Agreement courtesy of a Home Office leak.
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    (Original post by zizero)
    Collectivism is the opposite of individualism. So, socialist can hardly be reconciled with liberalism.

    Basically, a socialist is someone who believes that the state knows best, whereas a liberal is someone who believes individual should make their own decisions.

    I don't think you can range liberals among the left. Their economic policy very much resembles that of the right, whereas their civil rights position resemble that of the left.

    You seem to use the American definition of 'liberal', whereby a liberal is the opposite of a conservative and therefore left-wing. That's why you put liberals and socialists together.
    classical liberalism and libertarianism are indeed not the same as our contemporary idea of a left-wing liberal.
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    what briton gets a rent free semi-detached house with free energy, maintenance, tv licence, a 22 inch colour tv, cooking equipment, appliances, window cleaning. what briton can demand of their landlord to install child-proof apparatus, decorate, lay new carpet and fix damage and repairs within a 48hr time period?

    source: Asylum Seekers Tenant Agreement courtesy of a Home Office leak.
    Um that is a good life. What about car? I heard they get a free car within 3 years, and how much benefit tehy get me wonders...
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    on this issue if this is gonna be at all balanced i feel i must a least those who get here for honest reasons and then have to some how survive with no money as they cannot get an benifits or a job till there case is heard allowing them aslyum. no one looks after these people as all so to suggest asylum seekers get it easy is wrong in this case
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    (Original post by zizero)
    Collectivism is the opposite of individualism. So, socialist can hardly be reconciled with liberalism.

    Basically, a socialist is someone who believes that the state knows best, whereas a liberal is someone who believes individual should make their own decisions.

    I don't think you can range liberals among the left. Their economic policy very much resembles that of the right, whereas their civil rights position resemble that of the left.

    You seem to use the American definition of 'liberal', whereby a liberal is the opposite of a conservative and therefore left-wing. That's why you put liberals and socialists together.
    Your first and last sentences seem to contadict one another
    So you are associating socialism with totalitanariansim, that does not have to be so, anarchy is with no state control and is far on the left or the right. Evolutionary socialists have revised or amended fundamentalist revoloutionary theory and seek gradual political reform. They have therefore accepted the liberal framework of pluralist, parliamentary democracy, constitutionalism and consent. They see socialism as an end in itself rather than a transitionary phase.

    Therefore Liberal socialists are socialists who accept the framework of a democracy, as such the advocates of our welfare democracy. IF you can see where I am trying to head. I accept your points though, in that liberal economic policy is traditionally associated with that of the far right and free market.
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    I think the whole asylum seeker system is a question of balance. Persecuted people deserve the right to live in a free and fair world and nobody can disagree with that. However, the UK and Germany are the two countries in the world that take in more asylum seekers per head than the rest of the world, and although we have the responsibilty to protect innocent people, the responsibility as to be shared by the whole of europe and the civilised world, a problem not often discussed at EU level other than bickering between England and France. Our government also as to look at the treatment of asylum seekers, compared to their own citizens, it may be reasonable to let someone with no money have a free tv license and accomodation, but this can be said of the cast majority of students who after leaving uni and becoming successful and getting a job, pay back for the opportunities they've been given in life. I think there are a lot of similarities betweeen the two social groups that people dont pick up on.

    Does anybody agree with these points?

    God, i can rant sometimes...
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    (Original post by George-W-Duck)
    I think the whole asylum seeker system is a question of balance. Persecuted people deserve the right to live in a free and fair world and nobody can disagree with that. However, the UK and Germany are the two countries in the world that take in more asylum seekers per head than the rest of the world, and although we have the responsibilty to protect innocent people, the responsibility as to be shared by the whole of europe and the civilised world, a problem not often discussed at EU level other than bickering between England and France. Our government also as to look at the treatment of asylum seekers, compared to their own citizens, it may be reasonable to let someone with no money have a free tv license and accomodation, but this can be said of the cast majority of students who after leaving uni and becoming successful and getting a job, pay back for the opportunities they've been given in life. I think there are a lot of similarities betweeen the two social groups that people dont pick up on.

    Does anybody agree with these points?

    God, i can rant sometimes...
    i do
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    thanks
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    (Original post by JSM)
    Your first and last sentences seem to contadict one another
    So you are associating socialism with totalitanariansim, that does not have to be so, anarchy is with no state control and is far on the left or the right. Evolutionary socialists have revised or amended fundamentalist revoloutionary theory and seek gradual political reform. They have therefore accepted the liberal framework of pluralist, parliamentary democracy, constitutionalism and consent. They see socialism as an end in itself rather than a transitionary phase.

    Therefore Liberal socialists are socialists who accept the framework of a democracy, as such the advocates of our welfare democracy. IF you can see where I am trying to head. I accept your points though, in that liberal economic policy is traditionally associated with that of the far right and free market.
    they dont contradict one another because there are different ideas of 'liberal'. as for the rest i dont see what this waffle has to do with anything. and how did socialism become totalitarianism?
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    The rest is on the subject of asylum seekers, the subject of the thread
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    (Original post by vienna95)
    source: Asylum Seekers Tenant Agreement courtesy of a Home Office leak.
    Is that from the same 'Home Office leak' which appears on the BNP website? Sounds suspiciously like far-right propaganda to me. I spent some of the summer working for a charity which assists immigrants and I can assure you that I have never come across, or even heard of, any asylum seeker who has received anywhere near as much in benefits as you claim.

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    Out of interest, what does the standard asylum seeker recieve?
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    (Original post by George-W-Duck)
    Out of interest, what does the standard asylum seeker recieve?
    I don't know specific figures of what benefits are available to those claiming asylum. In my job I was helping to teach English and sports to the children of immigrants but I could tell just from that contact that many are desperately poor. They certainly do not get a state-funded semi-detatched house or a free car. Most come to this country with absolutely nothing and often many of the children had clearly not eaten that day and were wearing old clothes.

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    vienna

    (Original post by zizero)
    Basically, a socialist is someone who believes that the state knows best,
 
 
 
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