The TSR Palestinian Society Watch

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#321
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#321
A "people" is -- A collection of individuals claiming a common identity and interest. The most prominent recent example of a "people" flowering on the world stage and demanding a state is the "Palestinians."
So are working class socialists a people?
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Longshoredrift80
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#322
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#322
(Original post by mesoptamia)
. These are the type of psychotic bloodthirsty unreasonable murderous maniacs Palestinian refugees have to deal with everyday, face to face.
When they're not busy blowing up buses and cafes etc.?
Psychotic and bloodthirsty?
Which people hold vast armed parades crying out for destruction of the other, Israelis or palestinians?
Which people indoctrinate their children from birth with hatred and the idea that the ultimate honour is to die in order to kill the other, Israelis or palestinians?
Which people dress their babies as suicide-bombers, Israelis or palestinians?
Which people deliberately blow up buses and restaurants that are full of civilians, Israelis or palestinians?

Now tell me who the bloodthirsty psychos are.
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smellielli
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#323
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#323
Just out of interest, can someone please tell me when there was a country called "Palestine"? As the closest I have found was the "British Mandate of Palestine" which wasn't "Palestine" as people talk about.
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ArthurOliver
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#324
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#324
(Original post by Northumbrian)
So are working class socialists a people?
That's the reason Communism didn't fly and was defeated by Nationalism in Spain, Germany and Italy. The commonality of class interest is not the identity issue around which people want to organise in a national sense. Aside for civic-nationalists, I don't think I can think of a political "people" which is not ethno-national in character.
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tobie
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#325
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#325
(Original post by mesoptamia)
I am a member of the Palestinian Solidarity Group Commitee at Leeds University and I can confirm that for the past three years the society has had nothing but trouble from the J-soc. Considering Isreal Prides itself as being the only "state" that practises Egalitarianism in the Middle East, thier meagre attempts to silence critics is rather hypocritical. This is the same country that drugged a man and placed him in solitary confinment for well over a decade for speaking the truth! is this liberty? try telling that to Vanunu. Why is everyone so concerned with Irans Nuclear weapons when Isreal openly flirts with their weapons of Mass destruction? is it because Iran is an Islamic state and Isreal is a zionst state who share the same interest as the religious extremist evengelical christian Mr Bush? It is in Americas interest to have allies in the Middle East where they can control the rest of Arabia and their oil supply. And if they dont cooperate, they'll just make up some lies about religion, fuel public hatered and then bomb the hell out of them (i.e. Iraq, -coming soon IRAN,SYRIA). lest not forget, that Isreal could spend the next century composing various reasoning for their unexcusable behaviour but at the end of the day they have broken the most UN resolutions in the world! more the any "Islamic State" who is defining terrorism? Has everyone forgotten Jenine?! Isreali soldiers use Palestians as human shields they have built an ILLEGAL wall and have chosen to openley ignore any recommendations passed on by the UN. no-one would put up with these excuses from Arab Middle Eastern countries so why does Isreal get away with it? A girl in our society was spat at a year ago and another was violently pushed (police became involved) we have flyers ripped and abuse thrown at us. One member of J-soc promised to return to Jenine to "finish what was started" could you imagine if this was the J-soc it was happening to?! Antisemitism would have been screamed from the roof tops! but when its pathetic arabs no one gives a damn? tell me who are the ones being prosecuted here?
No Israeli Prime Minister has ever called for Iran to be wiped off the map. Is Israel did not posess nuclear weapons it would be invaded by its neighbours tomorrow. The Islamic states have signifcant influence over the UN, they provide all 5 permanent members of the UN security council with thier oil. The UN is not to be trusted. What did they do to help the Rwandans or the Tibetans. Far more Tibetans have died as a result of Chinese occupation than Palestinians AND the Tibetans do not murder civilains. How many resolutions condemming the Chinese occupation of Tibet resolutions has the UN passed?
Not many. Why?
Because the Tibetans do not encourage terrorism or have oil rich friends.
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#326
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#326
That's the reason Communism didn't fly and was defeated by Nationalism in Spain, Germany and Italy.
But Spain, for instance, isn't made up of one ethno group. How far would you devolve things?

Because the Tibetans do not encourage terrorism or have oil rich friends.
Absolute *******s. If the Arab governments were really the friends of the Palestinians they would have a state already. Let's look at the governments in the gulf, they are all US puppets! It id the legitimate right of the Palestinian people to resist, so what do they do when they have no military?
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tobie
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#327
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#327
(Original post by Northumbrian)
But Spain, for instance, isn't made up of one ethno group. How far would you devolve things?

Absolute *******s. If the Arab governments were really the friends of the Palestinians they would have a state already. Let's look at the governments in the gulf, they are all US puppets! It id the legitimate right of the Palestinian people to resist, so what do they do when they have no military?
If the Arab Govts were any good at fighting, the Palestinians would have a state already. Israel has been invaded three times by Arab nations (1948,1967,1973) and three times Israel has beaten back the invaders. During the 1973 Yom Kippur war arab Governments raised the price of oil by a factor of 4. Having no military is not an excuse to deliberately target civilians. If Palestinian terrorists only attacked military targets that would be understandable, however the vast majority of people killed by Palestinian terrorists are innocent civilians. Oh yes and Ghandi defeated the British Empire without a suicide bomber in sight.
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#328
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#328
If Palestinian terrorists only attacked military targets that would be understandable, however the vast majority of people killed by Palestinian terrorists are innocent civilians.
The vast majority of Palestinains killed by the Israeli terrorist government are civilians. Israel has a hi tech army and so has no excuse. What would you do if you were a Palestinian?

Oh yes and Ghandi defeated the British Empire without a suicide bomber in sight.
But I do recall some measure of violent resistance against the Imperialists.
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tobie
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#329
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#329
(Original post by Northumbrian)
The vast majority of Palestinains killed by the Israeli terrorist government are civilians. Israel has a hi tech army and so has no excuse. What would you do if you were a Palestinian?

Source? The PA claimed that 3000 civilians had been massacred in the fighting in Jenin in 2002. They later reduced the number to 500. An independent UN investigation found the actual casualty figures to be 52 only 16 of whom were civilians.

There is a clear moral difference between the deliberate targeting of civilians and the accidental death of civilians as a result of legitimate self defence.

But I do recall some measure of violent resistance against the Imperialists.
Even the IRA only targeted police and the military in the fight for independence from Britain in the 1919/1921 Anglo-Irish war. In contrast IRA actions in the Northern Ireland conflict involving the deliberate targeting of British and Northern Irish civilians have so far proved completely ineffective.

There is a difference

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[QUOTE=Northumbrian]The vast majority of Palestinains killed by the Israeli terrorist government are civilians. Israel has a hi tech army and so has no excuse. What would you do if you were a Palestinian?

Source? The PA claimed that 3000 civilians had been massacred in the fighting in Jenin in 2002. They later reduced the number to 500. An independent UN investigation found the actual casualty figures to be 52 only 16 of whom were civilians.

There is a clear moral difference between the deliberate targeting of civilians and the accidental death of civilians as a result of legitimate self defence.
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#330
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#330
The PA claimed that 3000 civilians had been massacred in the fighting in Jenin in 2002. They later reduced the number to 500.
Source?

An independent UN investigation found the actual casualty figures to be 52 only 16 of whom were civilians
Several days after the event took place.

There is a clear moral difference between the deliberate targeting of civilians and the accidental death of civilians as a result of legitimate self defence.
How easy do you think it is to target the military? If one can't target the military butthey still target you then it is a fight for your survival. You will kill any Israeli you can. Because it's about life and death for your entire people.

Do you think the Palestinians are genetically more immoral?
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tobie
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#331
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#331
(Original post by Northumbrian)
Source?

Palestinian Authority 2002

Several days after the event took place.

How easy do you think it is to target the military? If one can't target the military butthey still target you then it is a fight for your survival. You will kill any Israeli you can. Because it's about life and death for your entire people.

Do you think the Palestinians are genetically more immoral?
life and death? If every palestinian laid down his/her arms tomorrow, not a single arab would be harmed. If the israeli army laid down their weapons tomorrow, Israel would cease to exist.
There is no genetic difference between the semitic jews and arabs, however there is a cultural difference. Israelis do not see civilians as legitimate targets nor do they have an unhealthy fixation with martyrdom.
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#332
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#332
life and death? If every palestinian laid down his/her arms tomorrow, not a single arab would be harmed.
Rubbish. There are many ceasefires broken by Israel for example. If the Palestinians laid down arms do you not think Israel would annex yet more land?

There is no genetic difference between the semitic jews and arabs, however there is a cultural difference. Israelis do not see civilians as legitimate targets nor do they have an unhealthy fixation with martyrdom.
So there is something in the air in Palestine that isn't there in Israel?
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tobie
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#333
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#333
(Original post by Northumbrian)
Rubbish. There are many ceasefires broken by Israel for example. If the Palestinians laid down arms do you not think Israel would annex yet more land?


So there is something in the air in Palestine that isn't there in Israel?
Ceasefires broken by Israel e.g....

Hamas announced today that it would not extend its current truce into next year

If the Palestinians gave up violence, the Israelis would have no excuse for the occupation of the West Bank, or the checkpoints, or the wall.

The Israeli army is under direct governmental control, Palestinian terrorists do not answer to anyone, especially not the PA as they have consistently proven.

Blowing oneself up to reach paradise doesn't figure too much in modern Judaism.
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#334
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#334
If the Palestinians gave up violence, the Israelis would have no excuse for the occupation of the West Bank, or the checkpoints, or the wall.
How can you expect an occupied people to give up arms? Why is the ouness on the people who are occupied and not the illegal occupier?

Blowing oneself up to reach paradise doesn't figure too much in modern Judaism.
I don't think you could blow yourself up in the times of the prophet. So you are blaming Islam? So why did the Lebanese christians blow themselves up? Why do Tamil Tigers do it?
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Longshoredrift80
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#335
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#335
(Original post by Northumbrian)
So there is something in the air in Palestine that isn't there in Israel?
Not in the air, but in the culture, the mindset, the morality, etc.
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#336
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#336
Racist
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tobie
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#337
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#337
(Original post by Northumbrian)
How can you expect an occupied people to give up arms? Why is the ouness on the people who are occupied and not the illegal occupier?

I don't think you could blow yourself up in the times of the prophet. So you are blaming Islam? So why did the Lebanese christians blow themselves up? Why do Tamil Tigers do it?
Of the 36 terrorist groups known to have used suicide bombers 32 of them are Islamic. The Tamils and Lebanese Christians are not Jewish, find me a Jewish suicide bomber. Why is the West Bank occupied? Because it was captured from Jordan as a defence against further aggression after it attempted to invade Israel in the 1967 war. Why has it remained occupied? Becuase of the intifada. No one Israeli politician is going to pull troops out of the West Bank whilst the terrorism continues.
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smellielli
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#338
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#338
(Original post by tobie)
Of the 36 terrorist groups known to have used suicide bombers 32 of them are Islamic. The Tamils and Lebanese Christians are not Jewish, find me a Jewish suicide bomber. Why is the West Bank occupied? Because it was captured from Jordan as a defence against further aggression after it attempted to invade Israel in the 1967 war. Why has it remained occupied? Becuase of the intifada. No one Israeli politician is going to pull troops out of the West Bank whilst the terrorism continues.
dont forget that Jordan doesnt want it back anyway.
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tobie
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#339
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#339
(Original post by Northumbrian)
Racist
You want to hear something racist? Try the Hamas propaganda leaflets which describe the Jews as, and I quote: 'brothers of the apes and murderers of the prophets.'
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Longshoredrift80
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#340
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#340
(Original post by Northumbrian)
Racist
It's racist to remark that there is a difference in the culture, mindset and morality of the two? It's a demonstrable, nee obvious, fact.

How is that in the least bit racist by any known definition of the word?

Or do terrorism-lovers like you now define racism your own way?
Getting desperate are you?
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