Turn on thread page Beta

The TSR Palestinian Society watch

Announcements
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Phonicsdude)
    I support the Palestinian cause, but only because, as someone with no connection to either side, I feel inclined to help the underdog.
    Israel has tanks and weapons (funded by the US and the UK, particularly the former), and the palestinians have guns and explosives (yes they have stones, but lets not pretend that is their most advanced weaponry...they also have sticks :rolleyes: ). Yes, it is true that palestinoian terrorist groups are funded by some arab nations, but the funding is still far from equal.
    So just because Israel is actually advanced, it means they're guilty? That is an absolutely stupid reason to support them. If that is the only reason you can find to support their cause, and since you have no connection to either side, why even bother and get involved? This situation affects a lot of people's lives and it now seems like an "in" thing to support the "underdog" just for the sake of having something to support.

    And by the way, I am still unsure who the underdog is. The Palestinians have all their marvellous boycotts and petitions and violent and racist supporters, with half a dozen terrorist groups behind them, and the whole of the Arab world. Israel has haters and people calling for the destruction of the State, so forgive me but it doesn't seem like the Palestinians are the underdogs here.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Interesting debate. I think I may join.

    But lets remember...the Palestinians were kicked off their land so that Jewish people could have a state of their own. I have nothing against a Jewish state, but I don't think it should be at the expense of another. That said, I do believe there is a place for Israel in the middle east.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Wayvelength)
    Interesting debate. I think I may join.

    But lets remember...the Palestinians were kicked off their land so that Jewish people could have a state of their own. I have nothing against a Jewish state, but I don't think it should be at the expense of another. That said, I do believe there is a place for Israel in the middle east.
    That is also debatable. See here. Mark Twain visited Palestine in 1867, there was nobody to be seen; that means no Palestinians. See here too.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by gemgems89)
    So just because Israel is actually advanced, it means they're guilty? That is an absolutely stupid reason to support them. If that is the only reason you can find to support their cause, and since you have no connection to either side, why even bother and get involved? This situation affects a lot of people's lives and it now seems like an "in" thing to support the "underdog" just for the sake of having something to support.
    Israel receives funding despite being an oppressive state (the Security barrier has been ruled unlawful). Palestinians receive less funding and are an oppressed state. There is the difference.
    I dont think anyone supports suicide bombing, but you can understand why people feel the need to blow themselves up.
    I also understand the Israeli point of view.
    I resent the groundless accusation that I have the view I have to be cool.

    And by the way, I am still unsure who the underdog is. The Palestinians have all their marvellous boycotts and petitions and violent and racist supporters, with half a dozen terrorist groups behind them, and the whole of the Arab world. Israel has haters and people calling for the destruction of the State, so forgive me but it doesn't seem like the Palestinians are the underdogs here.
    Palestinians have extremists on their side.
    Israelis have extremists on their side.
    Your statements above are highly selective.

    Palestinians may have boycotts and petittions, but these are the hallmark of a democracy in action. We should encourage citizens in the Western world (indeed everywhere) to take an interest in international affairs.

    Palestinians have violent supporters? Wtf?
    They have racist supporters and this must not be tolerated. This is not to say that most supporters of the Palestinian cause are rascist, nor does it mean the Israelis dont have a case to answer for.
    Terrorist groups do support the palestinians. But the US and the UK are both behind Israel (particularly the former). I know who Id rather have on my side! The same applies to your comment about the Arab world.

    The Arab world is also largely a passive supporter of the palestinian cause. They have not threatened to invade Israel in recent times, and they are perfectly entitled to support the palestinians vocally.

    Most people with half a brain cell can see that the destruction of the Israeli, state is undesirable, or at least impractical. Why waste your time confronting the bad arguments regarding this conflict?

    Israel has more power than Palestine (whatever that may be). How can you argue that Irael is the underdog?
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    Israel receives funding despite being an oppressive state (the Security barrier has been ruled unlawful).
    Israel has a right to protect herself. Notice how the number of attacks have decreased dramatically since the Security barrier was put up.

    I dont think anyone supports suicide bombing, but you can understand why people feel the need to blow themselves up.
    The Palestinians do or they wouldn't jump for joy at the success of one. And no, I can not understand why people feel the need to blow themselves up.

    Palestinians have violent supporters? Wtf?
    They have racist supporters and this must not be tolerated. This is not to say that most supporters of the Palestinian cause are rascist, nor does it mean the Israelis dont have a case to answer for.
    Terrorist groups do support the palestinians. But the US and the UK are both behind Israel (particularly the former). I know who Id rather have on my side! The same applies to your comment about the Arab world.

    The Arab world is also largely a passive supporter of the palestinian cause. They have not threatened to invade Israel in recent times, and they are perfectly entitled to support the palestinians vocally.
    Yes, I regard burning Israeli flags to be significantly violent.

    The Arab world are entitled to support them, but the likes of Iran has many a time threatened to "wipe Israel off the map" and have even developed a nuke that can reach the whole of Israel. With the whole of the Arab world (which happens to be very large) supporting the Palestinians, I can not for one moment regard them as underdogs. And terrorist groups are a great threat nowadays, so I wouldn't like to be in their bad books... I'm afraid Israel is.

    Most people with half a brain cell can see that the destruction of the Israeli, state is undesirable, or at least impractical. Why waste your time confronting the bad arguments regarding this conflict?
    That's the thing, these people don't have half a brain cell. Most of them don't know the implications of the situation but merely support them because they are fellow Arabs - and when I say that I am not generalising beacuse I have seen videos with Arabs themselves saying that from places like Lebanon.

    Israel has more power than Palestine (whatever that may be). How can you argue that Irael is the underdog?
    Just beacuse they have more power, it doesn't mean they use it. Israel don't use their citizens to blow themselves up in order to kill the most number of people. In theory, they could, but they don't - it is a civilised democracy. And just because a country has more power than another, it does not by any means make them guilty.

    Why waste your time confronting the bad arguments regarding this conflict?
    Good point. I shall stop.
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Wayvelength)
    Interesting debate. I think I may join.

    But lets remember...the Palestinians were kicked off their land so that Jewish people could have a state of their own. I have nothing against a Jewish state, but I don't think it should be at the expense of another. That said, I do believe there is a place for Israel in the middle east.
    Zionists. Yes, they proclaimed a state for all jews, many of us don't support it. I do have lot against a Jewish state. As do many jews, particularly us left-wing ones.

    MB
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by gemgems89)
    That is also debatable. See here. Mark Twain visited Palestine in 1867, there was nobody to be seen; that means no Palestinians. See here too.

    You want to explain why 1000000 palestinians had to go into refugee camps in 1948, whey even more went it 1967. If there was no-one there then why are there still Palestinians in refugee camps who have the keys to the houses they were forced to leave over 50 years ago. You're living in cloud cuckoo land.

    MB
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by gemgems89)
    Israel has a right to protect herself. Notice how the number of attacks have decreased dramatically since the Security barrier was put up.
    You are not one to comment on any part of international or national law. An international court has found the security barrier to be unlawful. I think we can take their word for it...
    Unless, of course, you have any criticisms of thier judgement!

    The Palestinians do or they wouldn't jump for joy at the success of one. And no, I can not understand why people feel the need to blow themselves up.
    Most palestinians, like most Israelis, are peaceful people. They do not want to see violence. They want to lead "normal" lives, like you or I.
    You take the actions of a minority to mirror a whole group. This verges on the racist...
    If I lived in a place where there were soldiers everywhere, and one of them had unlawfully taken the life of one of my family, then I might be driven to such extreme action. Humans tend to live off hope. Many of them have no hope.
    Yes this refers to a small minority of people, but then suicide bombers are a small minorty of the palestinian population.

    Yes, I regard burning Israeli flags to be significantly violent.
    (Original post by dictionary.com)
    Violence, adj. 1) Physical force exerted for the purpose of violating, damaging, or abusing
    I don't.

    The Arab world are entitled to support them, but the likes of Iran has many a time threatened to "wipe Israel off the map" and have even developed a nuke that can reach the whole of Israel. With the whole of the Arab world (which happens to be very large) supporting the Palestinians, I can not for one moment regard them as underdogs. And terrorist groups are a great threat nowadays, so I wouldn't like to be in their bad books... I'm afraid Israel is.
    Anyone with the US behind them, and no other country approaching super power status against them can be considered to be underdogs.
    Again, dont solely deal with the extremists. There are moderates who criticise Israel.

    That's the thing, these people don't have half a brain cell. Most of them don't know the implications of the situation but merely support them because they are fellow Arabs - and when I say that I am not generalising beacuse I have seen videos with Arabs themselves saying that from places like Lebanon.
    "these people"???
    That can only refer to extremists.
    I have presented you with many moderate (reasonable) arguments.

    Just beacuse they have more power, it doesn't mean they use it. Israel don't use their citizens to blow themselves up in order to kill the most number of people. In theory, they could, but they don't - it is a civilised democracy. And just because a country has more power than another, it does not by any means make them guilty.
    Israel uses tanks and an army.
    If palestinians had tanks and an organised army then it would use them, and not people.

    Good point. I shall stop.
    You are not a bad debater, but please address my points instead of trying to criticise the behaviour of some extremists. I am against the extremists.

    Can you really argue aginst the Palestinians having the right to a homeland?
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by gemgems89)
    Israel has a right to protect herself. Notice how the number of attacks have decreased dramatically since the Security barrier was put up.
    yes, and it's really put all those 50000 Palestinians who live between the border and the barrier in a great position hasn't it. No proper schooling or healthcare or local amenities. How can a civilised person defend such barbarism?


    (Original post by gemgems89)
    The Palestinians do or they wouldn't jump for joy at the success of one. And no, I can not understand why people feel the need to blow themselves up.
    It is clear that these people feel so disenfranchised that there is no hope. Of course I don't condone suicide bombers but I can certainly understand it.


    (Original post by gemgems89)
    Yes, I regard burning Israeli flags to be significantly violent.
    What you actually mean is that you politically disagree with a politik that is crudely expressed through the act of burning a flag.

    (Original post by gemgems89)
    The Arab world are entitled to support them, but the likes of Iran has many a time threatened to "wipe Israel off the map" and have even developed a nuke that can reach the whole of Israel. With the whole of the Arab world (which happens to be very large) supporting the Palestinians, I can not for one moment regard them as underdogs. And terrorist groups are a great threat nowadays, so I wouldn't like to be in their bad books... I'm afraid Israel is.
    Are you suggesting that israel doesn't have nukes?


    (Original post by gemgems89)
    That's the thing, these people don't have half a brain cell. Most of them don't know the implications of the situation but merely support them because they are fellow Arabs - and when I say that I am not generalising beacuse I have seen videos with Arabs themselves saying that from places like Lebanon.
    And some off us, as we've said again and again have a serious political opposition.


    (Original post by gemgems89)
    Just beacuse they have more power, it doesn't mean they use it. Israel don't use their citizens to blow themselves up in order to kill the most number of people. In theory, they could, but they don't - it is a civilised democracy. And just because a country has more power than another, it does not by any means make them guilty.
    Do you think that house demolitions, ambulances being keept at checkpoints for hours, shootings of police protesters etc are a sign of civilised democracy?

    MB
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Phonicsdude)
    Can you really argue aginst the Palestinians having the right to a homeland?
    I want the Palestinians to have a homeland. But do they? The Palestinians didn'taccept the UN resolution but instead waged war on Israel on all fronts in 1948, instead of accepting their independent Palestinian state then and living alongside Israel in peace. And isn't the deal that if Israel withdraws from Gaza, they will stop sending bombs into Israel? Ok, Israel is currently withdrawing from Gaza, couple of weeks ago there was a bomb in Netanya. Something makes me think that once Israel has withdrawn from Gaza, the Palestinians will no longer have an excuse to bomb Israel because up to now this has been their excuse!
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by musicbloke)
    yes, and it's really put all those 50000 Palestinians who live between the border and the barrier in a great position hasn't it. No proper schooling or healthcare or local amenities. How can a civilised person defend such barbarism?




    It is clear that these people feel so disenfranchised that there is no hope. Of course I don't condone suicide bombers but I can certainly understand it.




    What you actually mean is that you politically disagree with a politik that is crudely expressed through the act of burning a flag.



    Are you suggesting that israel doesn't have nukes?




    And some off us, as we've said again and again have a serious political opposition.




    Do you think that house demolitions, ambulances being keept at checkpoints for hours, shootings of police protesters etc are a sign of civilised democracy?

    MB
    It's just the same arguments over and over again. Boring.
    But one thing that catches my eye the most, just about:
    Do you think that house demolitions, ambulances being keept at checkpoints for hours, shootings of police protesters etc are a sign of civilised democracy?
    I think it's fine to destroy houses belonging to terrorists. Ambulances being kept at checkpoints? Eh? Police protesters?

    Go to Israel, and you'll see it's like any other country; civilised and a democracy. I just don't understand. The news always make such a big deal over everything, exaggerating and making Israel seem like a war zone well I got back from Israel last week after being there for a month; everything was peaceful, no signs of any violence and I travelled the whole country and I get back the papers and news are full of it. So yes, it is civilised. Yes, it is a democracy.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Israel is a democracy and there are many arabs and palestinians living and working there.
    For example, gay palestinians tend to emigrate to Israel because it's a more open society and they don't repress them there.

    That said, I don't think it's about being on one side or the other. I do think paalestinians should be more consructive and less destructive. Israel has ofered them the land many times and I don't understand why they say no. What difference does a little more or a little less territory when you have to focus on geting a state and be productive. land isn't what will make you productive in the XXIst century, so stop fighting about it. I think there should be two nice states with a lot of historical legacy and exploit tourism and work it from there.

    Also, Palestine is a name invented by the romans when they invaded Israel.
    Offline

    3
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anabelle)
    Israel is a democracy and there are many arabs and palestinians living and working there.
    For example, gay palestinians tend to emigrate to Israel because it's a more open society and they don't repress them there.

    That said, I don't think it's about being on one side or the other. I do think paalestinians should be more consructive and less destructive. Israel has ofered them the land many times and I don't understand why they say no. What difference does a little more or a little less territory when you have to focus on geting a state and be productive. land isn't what will make you productive in the XXIst century, so stop fighting about it. I think there should be two nice states with a lot of historical legacy and exploit tourism and work it from there.

    Also, Palestine is a name invented by the romans when they invaded Israel.
    :ditto: :congrats: Well said.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Instad of boycotting those companies, why don't you make palestine a good territory (future country I hope) to invest in. I'm sure the palestinians are very capable people and there is always companies who want to invest in emerging countries. If there were no violence, what would be the difference between investing in Israel or in Palestine. I'm sure French companies will be willing to invest.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anabelle)
    I'm sure French companies will be willing to invest.
    Explain.
    Offline

    18
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by anabelle)
    Israel is a democracy and there are many arabs and palestinians living and working there.
    For example, gay palestinians tend to emigrate to Israel because it's a more open society and they don't repress them there.
    Erm, sorry. How does this relate to anything.
    People on this forum tend to type facts which are not directly related to the argument and walk away smugly as if they have achieved something.

    That said, I don't think it's about being on one side or the other. I do think paalestinians should be more consructive and less destructive. Israel has ofered them the land many times and I don't understand why they say no. What difference does a little more or a little less territory when you have to focus on geting a state and be productive. land isn't what will make you productive in the XXIst century, so stop fighting about it. I think there should be two nice states with a lot of historical legacy and exploit tourism and work it from there.
    Palestinians should be more constructive and less destructive. Agreed.
    But it is disingenuous to say <bold bit>. If that is the case, then surely Israel would be happy to give a way just a tinybit more land for a bit of peace...
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Phonicsdude)
    Yes, it is true that palestinoian terrorist groups are funded by some arab nations, but the funding is still far from equal.
    Sorry, is this an argument for or against more funding to terrorist groups that advocate ethnic cleansing?
    Offline

    12
    ReputationRep:
    This Thread Is Not Meant For Debate

    This Thread Is Meant For People Who Support The Palestinian Cause To Come And Form A Society

    If You Want To Debate The Issue There Many Many Threads In D&d

    Please Respect Our Wishes
    Offline

    14
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Northumbrian)
    This Thread Is Not Meant For Debate

    This Thread Is Meant For People Who Support The Palestinian Cause To Come And Form A Society

    If You Want To Debate The Issue There Many Many Threads In D&d

    Please Respect Our Wishes

    For someone who has a hammer and sicle as your avatars you make a stange case. Marxist ideology dictates that one opines on the basis of argument. There is no such thing as blind unquestioning support within the realms of Marxist praxis. Question everything.

    MB
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by gemgems89)
    :ditto: :congrats: Well said.
    I'll also :ditto: that.

    I'm sick of our media with their anti-Semitic and anti-White racism. Their double standards.

    One thing I odn't think ANYONE has mentioned in this thread is that the Middle East constantly tells the West to **** off out of its business yet "Palestine" is more than happy to accept $3bn in Western aid.

    One of exmaple of such anti-Semitism rife throughout today's pro-Islamic-fundamentalist media is the way they talk of the "Israeli Occupation".

    I'd now like for people to tell me where "Palestine" and "Palestinians" come from...
 
 
 
Poll
Brexit: Given the chance now, would you vote leave or remain?
Useful resources
US study forum

Accommodation profiles:

iQ Student Accommodation

iQ Student Accommodation

Great value student rooms in city centre locations all across the UK


X1 Lettings

X1 Lettings

Luxury student accommodation in Liverpool & Manchester.


Collegiate Accommodation

Collegiate Accommodation

"This is student living. Just better."


Scape Student Living

Study Inn

Providing stunning high quality, boutique student accommodation throughout the UK


The Student Housing Company

The Student Housing Company

Award-winning student accommodation - voted by 22,000 students.

Groups associated with this forum:

View associated groups

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.