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Reply 1520
because when debate fails (and eight hours of circular debate is a clear failure) neg rep accompanied with a stern warning is a useful way of expressings one's distaste and abject horror at the opponent's comportment.
Carl
Well I was hardly likely to make such comments in a post, but I completely stand by them. I spent EIGHT HOURS yesterday refuting every lie, deception, and poor use of logic he made only to be returned with either another lie, an emotional outburst ("well if you don't care about the Palestinian children you really are EVIL!!!!!") or a misinterpretation of what I said. Frankly I don't consider him worth the effort any more. Even pointed ad hominems like those in my rep message are too good for him.

I find his position abhorrent, especially for a self proclaimed Christian.


Who forced you to waste 8 hours of your life arguing with someone on an Internet forum? Don't blame him for the fact that you wasted a whole chunk of your life that you'll never get back. Your excuses are redundant, I've been given warnings for literally nothing, and my 'excuses' were completely ignored. Why should exceptions be made for your violation of TSR rules?
Reply 1522
I can still be given a warning.
Carl
I can still be given a warning.

I know.

:smile:
Carl
I can still be given a warning.


yea.. im reporting you now.
Reply 1525
good work son :wink:
Helzerel
What about the anti-Zionists who make excuses for the terrorist acts of organisations like Hamas and Hezbollah?
There's always this swift change of subject when zionists come "under attack". Would you like to comment on the post first about excuses? :smile:.

Helzerel
Additionally, forgive me if you've stated your opinions before but I'm not on TSR frequently anymore, and when I am, I don't have time to backread all the millions of threads. What's your personal opinion on Hezbollah, suicide bombers and the daily Qassam rocket attacks onto Israeli civilian territory?
Don't know where Hezbullah came into this :wink:

My personal opinion is that all attacks on innocent civilians is wrong. So that's my answer to your question. However, the reason why this takes place is a different story

Imagine you're a Palestinian teen. Would you you do if your house has been bulldozed by israelis who claimed it was the house of a terrorist. You come under fire every single day. Most of your family have been murdered by the israeli army in another one of their "accidents", the mental scar left inside you is huge and permanent.

Obviously you have no school to go to, you have no work. You have little family and friends because most of them have been killed by the israelis.

What is your life "worth", and how angry are you? What will you do about it, because you certainly will do something about it?

Don't dare talk about justification, or me supporting it, just the answer will do.
Reply 1527
furry: you make it sound like Israel killed 4/5s of the Palestinian population.
How?
Reply 1529
"You have little family and friends because most of them have been killed by the israelis."
Carl
"You have little family and friends because most of them have been killed by the israelis."

Well that is definitely the case for a lot of them.
Reply 1531
Most of them? Like 50/60/70% of them? Nonsense.

A few of them will have lost most of their family in raids, most of them will know one or more people who have been killed. To suggest that all living Palestinians have had most of their family and friends killed would require killing on a much greater scale than goes on now.
I didn't say most. But the one's who are affected the most end up being hardcore militants.
Carl
"You have little family and friends because most of them have been killed by the israelis."
Helzerel asked me for my views on suicide bombings etc, so that little "story" is about someone who'd become a suicide bomber or similar.

It's not about the majority or the minority. It's about those who do become suicide bombers or those who attack israel. That's just one of the reasons why israel gets attacked.
the_chauffeur
I didn't say most. But the one's who are affected the most end up being hardcore militants.
Precisely. :yy:

In an area where fighting and death is an everyday thing, it doesn't take much for people living there to decide to want to attack israel.
justfurry
There's always this swift change of subject when zionists come "under attack". Would you like to comment on the post first about excuses? :smile:.

Give me an example of a recent incident where an action taken by Israel was condemned internationally, by a large number of Western countries and deemed as "terrorism." Then I'll comment with pleasure. :smile:

Don't know where Hezbullah came into this :wink:

My personal opinion is that all attacks on innocent civilians is wrong. So that's my answer to your question.

As I already stated, I'm interested to hear your personal opinion.

Based on that conclusive statement - may it be inferred that (regardless of motives and their aims), you condemn the methods employed by organisations such as Hamas and Hezbollah?

However, the reason why this takes place is a different story

Imagine you're a Palestinian teen. Would you you do if your house has been bulldozed by israelis who claimed it was the house of a terrorist. You come under fire every single day. Most of your family have been murdered by the israeli army in another one of their "accidents", the mental scar left inside you is huge and permanent.

Obviously you have no school to go to, you have no work. You have little family and friends because most of them have been killed by the israelis.

What is your life "worth", and how angry are you? What will you do about it, because you certainly will do something about it?

Don't dare talk about justification, or me supporting it, just the answer will do.

That is all very well, and a person in such a circumstance, other factors permitting might indeed have a just reason not to be so pro-Israeli. However, with practically all suicide bombers this is not the case and the example you have given has been taken out of context.

Suicide bombers are accorded the status of a matyr, of a hero, thus encouraging teenagers to emulate their example. After a suicide bombing, guns are fired in Lebanese streets by civilans in celebration, and there have been reliable, third party reports of Palestinians flocking to the home of a suicide bomber to offer up their "congratulations."

With regard to the scenario you specified - it is generally factually incorrect. Whilst the public are led to believe that suicide bombers come from the background you described, many tend to come from well-educated, middle-class homes where they have been brought up in a nest of seething hatred towards Israel and the Jews.
In fact, one mother knew of her son's selection for a suicide terrorist mission a month in advance. As he left to attack Israelis, she told him, "Take care my son, remember God, repeat the verses, pay attention to everything you see, concentrate on the task ahead, pick your moment. May God bless you with success and may you be granted the martyrdom you deserve." (http://www.timesonline.co.uk/section/0,,176,00.html)

Bombers' families also receive approximately $15,000 from Iraq through Hamas, as well as food, blankets, and an all-expense-paid trip to Mecca for the annual pilgrimage.

A Palestinian public health worker even admitted that results from a survey from Palestinian universities showed the students who committed terrorist attacks to be the "best and the brightest."

Quite a difference from the picture you painted Farhan. :smile:
Reply 1537
woo links. Present some comments or opinions and I might bother looking at them.
first link
"The report shows that Israel has effectively stolen privately-owned Palestinian land for the purpose of constructing settlements and in violation of Israel's own laws regarding activities in the West Bank," the movement said.


FFS
second link
A 19-year old Swedish human rights worker had her cheekbone broken by an Israeli settler in Hebron today. Tove Johansson from Stockholm walked through the Tel Rumeida checkpoint with a small group of human rights workers to accompany Palestinian schoolchildren to their homes. They were confronted by about 100 settlers in small groups, who started chanting in Hebrew “We killed Jesus, we’ll kill you too!”, a refrain the settlers had been repeating to internationals in Tel Rumeida all day.

After about thirty seconds of waiting, a small group of very aggressive settler men surrounded the international volunteers and began spitting at them, so much so that the internationals described it like “rain.” Then settler men from the back of the crowd began jumping up and spitting, while others kicked the volunteers from the back of the crowd and from the side. The soldiers who were standing just a few feet behind the internationals at the checkpoint just looked on as the internationals were being attacked.


Wow. I thought that was a taboo in Israel ?

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