The TSR Palestinian Society Watch

filastini
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#1701
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#1701
If you bothered to read the source I provided, you'd see it's The case for israel - Alan Dershowitz.

Even by reading the title you can see he's pro-israeli and that he's writing for israel. Unless you think a pro-israeli would make up a court ruling that would seem against of what israelis would want.

You can look it up in his book, or not. Doesn't make a difference to me. I provided the source, the rest is your business.
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filastini
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#1702
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#1702
By the way, do you agree with Apagg that although it is more likely than not that an ambulance isn't carrying weapons or terrorist, it should be shot at "to be safe than sorry" for the security of israelis, even though it normally means that innocent Palestinians would die as a result of it?

Also, what are your views on the fact that so many Palestinians have died because of the security of israelis? Noting that most of the dead were of no threat to israel.

Thanks.
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Apagg
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#1703
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#1703
(Original post by 37927)
what stupid reasoning is that?

Have you even read my post properly? How many cases of the wrongful use of ambulances are there?

So you think they should shoot down every ambulance they see, just to be "safe than sorry"? You know, more Palestinians have died just for the "security of israelis".

That implies that you think israeli lives are more valuable than Palestinian lives. Please tell me I am wrong and explain how you don't think that.
No, I just used empathy - from an Israeli soldier's PoV, it is better not to take a risk with Israeli lives if they are uncertain whether or not the ambulance contains suicide bombers.
I didn't say that they should shoot every ambulance, but if they believe it may contain suicide bombers, what else are they to do? As I asked before, what would you do in their situation?
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filastini
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#1704
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#1704
(Original post by Apagg)
No, I just used empathy - from an Israeli soldier's PoV, it is better not to take a risk with Israeli lives if they are uncertain whether or not the ambulance contains suicide bombers.
I didn't say that they should shoot every ambulance, but if they believe it may contain suicide bombers, what else are they to do? As I asked before, what would you do in their situation?
It's better not to take a risk with israeli lives at the expense of Palestinian lives, yes?

Let's see, the majority of Red Crescent ambulances do not carry terrorists or weapons, so no, I wouldn't do anything. Moreover, the ambulance had already been coordinated, so there's no concern over the ambulance and it being a threat to anything.

Again, the ambulance had been coordinated in advance, and the only way soldiers should shoot is if they recieve orders to shoot, otherwise how would they know if an ambulance has terrorists or weapons inside?
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Evil-Tuna
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#1705
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#1705
(Original post by [ A Y A Z ])
#pal#
You beauty.
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*titanium*
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#1706
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#1706
(Original post by 37927)
It's better not to take a risk with israeli lives at the expense of Palestinian lives, yes?

Let's see, the majority of Red Crescent ambulances do not carry terrorists or weapons, so no, I wouldn't do anything. Moreover, the ambulance had already been coordinated, so there's no concern over the ambulance and it being a threat to anything.

Again, the ambulance had been coordinated in advance, and the only way soldiers should shoot is if they recieve orders to shoot, otherwise how would they know if an ambulance has terrorists or weapons inside?
The fact is its Israels responsibility to look after its civilians, its nothing to do with palestinians, and if some ambulances even if a minority, are a threat, then its is their duty to check them. If this ambulance was given the all clear before hand and the sodliers on the ground where not informed, and they see an ambulance speeding towards them and is not about to stop, they will open fire.

Are you trying to say that because the majority of ambulances are ok, they should not be allowed to check them, even though some are a threat, thats like an airport not checking passengers because most are not a hijackers or smugglers. If there where no people like this, we wouldnt need security checks, but the fact that there are some means that we all need to be checked. Israel isnt going to go to all the effort of trying to stop terrorists from attacking it just to let them in in ambulances.
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Evil-Tuna
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#1707
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#1707
Farhan put up 2 posts that are directly related to you, instead you answer a post that is not in response to you and ignore the others. :confused:
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Invocation
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#1708
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#1708
(Original post by *titanium*)
The fact is its Israels responsibility to look after its civilians, its nothing to do with palestinians, and if some ambulances even if a minority, are a threat, then its is their duty to check them. If this ambulance was given the all clear before hand and the sodliers on the ground where not informed, and they see an ambulance speeding towards them and is not about to stop, they will open fire.
There is no evidence for that, and you know it.
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Apagg
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#1709
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#1709
(Original post by 37927)
It's better not to take a risk with israeli lives at the expense of Palestinian lives, yes?

Let's see, the majority of Red Crescent ambulances do not carry terrorists or weapons, so no, I wouldn't do anything. Moreover, the ambulance had already been coordinated, so there's no concern over the ambulance and it being a threat to anything.

Again, the ambulance had been coordinated in advance, and the only way soldiers should shoot is if they recieve orders to shoot, otherwise how would they know if an ambulance has terrorists or weapons inside?
And if it transpired that the ambulance DID contain suicide bombers?
If the soldiers knew it had been coordinated, they would not have fired on the ambulance. They must have been told that the ambulance did not have permission to leave, or at least had not been told it had been given permission. Despite what you may think, Israelis are not bloodthirsty monsters, they are as human as anyone else.

The soldiers exist to defend their nation, so obviously they will value Israeli lives over Palestinian lives, in the same way that the armed forces of any nation will give precedence to their own people.
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Invocation
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#1710
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#1710
Maybe we should shoot all brown people with bags on the underground. Works by the same rules right ? After all "it is better not to take a risk with British lives if they are uncertain whether or not the Muslim has bombs"
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abu_afak
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#1711
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#1711
Fifteen Palestinians killed in clashes across Gaza

Arab Times (Kuwait)
GAZA, Jan 26

Reuters - Rival Palestinian factions clashed in the Gaza Strip on Friday, killing 15 people including a two-year-old child, and a Fatah-linked group said it had captured 24 Hamas hostages.

The death toll in a wave of bombings and shootings is the highest in internal Palestinian fighting in a single day of violence since Hamas's rise to power exactly a year ago.

In Jabalya in the northern Gaza Strip, Hamas gunmen besieged and later stormed the house of senior Fatah militant Mansour Shalayel, who they accused of shooting a Hamas supporter.

Security forces said they managed to regain control of the house and drive away the attackers and free Shalayel and other people who were holed up inside the house unharmed.

Hamas disputed Fatah's claim of success and said they were in control of the house. Shalayel had not been seen late on Friday and his whereabouts or condition were not known.

Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades said it had seized 24 Hamas supporters in Gaza and the West Bank and threatened a "severe response" if Hamas gunmen harmed Shalayel.

Residents said gunfire echoed across Gaza late on Friday and both Hamas and Fatah forces deployed on the streets. Two rocket-propelled grenades were fired at Fatah's Preventive Security headquarters in Gaza City.

A rocket-propelled grenade was also fired at the house of Foreign Minister Mahmoud al-Zahar of Hamas and caused extensive damage, a Hamas official said. He added that Zahar's family members were inside the house at the time but were unharmed.

The mounting violence prompted Hamas to call off the talks over forming a coalition government which could ease a U.S.-led boycott imposed after Hamas won a parliamentary poll a year ago.

"The Fatah movement continues to give a factional, political and media cover to the killers. Hamas has therefore decided to suspend all talks with Fatah," spokesman Fawzi Barhoum said...."

"...At least eight Hamas supporters, a militant from Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades, five others and the young child who died in crossfire in southern Gaza, fell victim after the violence began with a bombing on Thursday.

Hamas vowed revenge for the killing of their members and of the leader named Zuhair al-Mansi which spokesman Barhoum described as a "grave crime".

The fighting coincided with a rally by thousands of Hamas supporters to mark the first anniversary of the Islamist group's election victory over the once-dominant Fatah last year.

In the occupied West Bank city of Nablus, Al Aqsa Martyrs Brigades paraded a group of nine youths it had captured and threatened revenge if Shalayel was hurt. The youths were later freed unharmed. In Gaza, 15 hostages were still being held.

In the West Bank town of Tulkarm unknown gunmen shot and critically wounded a Hamas official as he left evening prayers.

PALESTINIAN INFIGHTING

Around 40 Palestinians have been killed in fighting between rival groups since President Mahmoud Abbas of Fatah called last month for presidential and parliamentary elections after a previous round of unity talks broke down..."

http://www.arabtimesonline.com/arabt...sp?msgID=13198
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Apagg
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#1712
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#1712
(Original post by Invocation)
Maybe we should shoot all brown people with bags on the underground. Works by the same rules right ? After all "it is better not to take a risk with British lives if they are uncertain whether or not the Muslim has bombs"
Well, no, because you can stop people who carry bombs in bags, and it's hardly a daily occurrence. If Britain changed to a country where bombings of that kind were common, then yes, I'd expect increased security, though shooting wouldn't be necessary.
Making poor analogies is unhelpful
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Invocation
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#1713
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#1713
Palestinian everyday misery in refugee camps.
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Apagg
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#1714
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#1714
Ooh, linking stories, fun

Palestinian Infighting Continues

Suicide attacks on Israel used to end civil war
30 Palestinians killed by their own people
Ceasefire broken, tempting Israeli retaliation

and yet the Palestinian society has no comment. I wonder why
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Invocation
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#1715
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#1715
(Original post by Apagg)
Suicide attacks on Israel used to end civil war
^o)
30 Palestinians killed by their own people
A sad story. But campaigning won't help anything.

Ceasefire broken, tempting Israeli retaliation
Carpet bombing Palestine really won't breed more suicide bombers :rolleyes:
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Apagg
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#1716
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#1716
Read the first few sentences of the story
Campaigning to stop Palestinian Civil War won't help? But you think campaigning to stop the Israeli-Palestinian war will?
Letting them bomb with impunity will help, naturally
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Invocation
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#1717
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#1717
(Original post by Apagg)
Read the first few sentences of the story
There was one attack.
Campaigning to stop Palestinian Civil War won't help? But you think campaigning to stop the Israeli-Palestinian war will?
Israel cares about it's image and PR a lot more.
Letting them bomb with impunity will help, naturally
In probably the most densely populated area in the world, bombs will affect everyone. And when I say "affect" I don't mean in a nice way.
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Apagg
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#1718
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#1718
(Original post by Invocation)
There was one attack.

Israel cares about it's image and PR a lot more.

In probably the most densely populated area in the world, bombs will affect everyone. And when I say "affect" I don't mean in a nice way.
Pedantry, fun.
So, to go back to what you've said on another thread - Israel has something to preserve, unlike its uncivilised Arab neighbours?
What's the point you're making in your last couple of sentences, exactly?
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Evil-Tuna
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#1719
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#1719
(Original post by Apagg)
Pedantry, fun.
So, to go back to what you've said on another thread - Israel has something to preserve, unlike its uncivilised Arab neighbours?
What's the point you're making in your last couple of sentences, exactly?
Would it be pedantic to say your use of adjectives is either antagonistic or a joke?
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Invocation
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#1720
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#1720
(Original post by Apagg)
Pedantry, fun.
No seriously, there was one attack. why you don't seem to accept that is beyond me.
So, to go back to what you've said on another thread - Israel has something to preserve, unlike its uncivilised Arab neighbours?
What's the point you're making in your last couple of sentences, exactly?
Bombing Palestine will move them one step towards isolating themselves in the ME.
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