Turn on thread page Beta
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Elles)
    but i don't really think it should be a 'versus' or 'either or' type of situation..
    Yes, this thread should be in the H&R section, there is really not much to debate about these two.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Elles)
    the 8 minutes is only the standard allocated GP time
    True that you can get a slightly longer appointment if necessary, but I always feel that the doctors I go to are in a rush to get me 'over with'. My doctor is very hurried and impatient.

    ideally the GP & patient have already built up a rapport & some of the history is already known, so you don't need to entirely start from scratch each time
    Ideally being the key word. My doctor doesn't even remember my name after seeing me for over 10 years! In addition he never seems to know what is wrong with his patients and constantly looks things up in a big book he keeps on his desk which doesn't project confidence. And in spite of looking everything up, his diagnosis success-rate seems to be low. By no means are all doctors like this, but perhaps it explains why I am slightly disillusioned by doctors right now. I've been looking to replace him. Anyone know where I can find a good one? lol

    i don't really think it should be a 'versus' or 'either or' type of situation..
    when it comes down to it, both types of treatment could benefit from one another and be used together in harmony
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mittal)
    there is really not much to debate about these two.
    I think there is. I really think that more people should be aware of complementary medicine, and that more research should be invested in it and publicised.

    That lecturer I was talking about before was saying that conventional medicine has been overpowered by the pharmaceutical companies. He claimed that greed for money is causing mis-use of drugs. He used the example that Neurofen (Ibuprofen) which is marketed as a painkiller, is actually an anti-inflammatory drug. Its only marketed as a painkiller because this is more profitable than if it were to be marketed as its actual use.

    I've also read scandalous accusations about medicines being discovered for previously uncurable diseases, but the cure is suppressed because if it were available it would mean less money is made in total (eg from scans, chemotherapy, or whatever methods are used). I don't know how true any of this is!

    I know I'm moving slightly off-topic, but I thought it was interesting.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tweetsy85)
    True that you can get a slightly longer appointment if necessary, but I always feel that the doctors I go to are in a rush to get me 'over with'. My doctor is very hurried and impatient.


    Ideally being the key word. My doctor doesn't even remember my name after seeing me for over 10 years! In addition he never seems to know what is wrong with his patients and constantly looks things up in a big book he keeps on his desk which doesn't project confidence. And in spite of looking everything up, his diagnosis success-rate seems to be low. By no means are all doctors like this, but perhaps it explains why I am slightly disillusioned by doctors right now. I've been looking to replace him. Anyone know where I can find a good one? lol
    That is very true, the majority of Doctors are in a hurry and always rush the patients, my Doctor does that

    But when I was refferred to this Maxillo surgeon for my braces, the surgeon was a very good female doctor, knew my name and once I told her my interests and hobbies, she remembered them after a 6 month later appointment.
    I was very impressed and intrigued, how different the Doctor was
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tweetsy85)
    I think there is. I really think that more people should be aware of complementary medicine, and that more research should be invested in it and publicised.

    That lecturer I was talking about before was saying that conventional medicine has been overpowered by the pharmaceutical companies. He claimed that greed for money is causing mis-use of drugs. He used the example that Neurofen (Ibuprofen) which is marketed as a painkiller, is actually an anti-inflammatory drug. Its only marketed as a painkiller because this is more profitable than if it were to be marketed as its actual use.

    I've also read scandalous accusations about medicines being discovered for previously uncurable diseases, but the cure is suppressed because if it were available it would mean less money is made in total (eg from scans, chemotherapy, or whatever methods are used). I don't know how true any of this is!

    I know I'm moving slightly off-topic, but I thought it was interesting.
    Yes these issues are interesting, sadly not many Doctors will want to get involved and research and won't have much up-to-date knowledge of current issues due to their busy lives.

    There was also a shocking, or several shocking TV programmes which explained how drugs are replicated with inactive ingredients and sold of, and the truth of such replica drugs is never known. These drugs mostly exported from India and China can cause deaths and serious concerns amongest hosiptals as they are inactive and cause no differnce in the patients.

    Unfortunately, this is a very shocking side to medicine, which cannot be helped much.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Mittal)
    a very good female doctor, knew my name and once I told her my interests and hobbies, she remembered them after a 6 month later appointment.
    impressive! you were lucky you found her! yes, it does go to show how much doctors can vary.
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    Q: What do you call someone who uses alternative medicine?
    A: A corpse.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Weejimmie)
    Q: What do you call someone who uses alternative medicine?
    A: A corpse.
    lol, nice entry into this thread, anything you want to say about modern medical practice?
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    as an ex health service paramedic who's needed a lot of medical attention over the last few years I've seen both sides and I'd say that the one advantage the complementary medicine practitioners have is that they pay attention to the patient. The orthodox medical people tend to look at a case [an interesting word to use] as a medical condition with a person attached; the dippy hippies pay more attention to the person than the disease, so the person feels better- except that they get more ill. Perhaps we ought to train Official Quacks for the NHS who will provide psychological reassurance while the allegedly cold-blooded cold-hearted professionals cure the actual illnesses.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Weejimmie)
    as an ex health service paramedic who's needed a lot of medical attention over the last few years I've seen both sides and I'd say that the one advantage the complementary medicine practitioners have is that they pay attention to the patient. The orthodox medical people tend to look at a case [an interesting word to use] as a medical condition with a person attached; the dippy hippies pay more attention to the person than the disease, so the person feels better- except that they get more ill. Perhaps we ought to train Official Quacks for the NHS who will provide psychological reassurance while the allegedly cold-blooded cold-hearted professionals cure the actual illnesses.
    some good points, Orthodox medicine has the advantage of developing medical techniques to diagnose and cure, but disadvantage that Doctors have an inability to distinguish between the body and the person when practising medicine.
    Offline

    17
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tweetsy85)
    He used the example that Neurofen (Ibuprofen) which is marketed as a painkiller, is actually an anti-inflammatory drug. Its only marketed as a painkiller because this is more profitable..
    i haven't researched this specific example - but do you know much about pain pathways? it's entirely possible that anti-inflammatories also act as 'painkillers' due to shared mediators e.g. aspirin = acts non-specifically on COX, this is directly an anti-inflammatory but also seems to reduce nociceptor sensitisation, thus is commonly taken for certain types of pain.

    if something's marketed as a painkiller, i imagine it does act to kill pain - wouldn't be very successful & make anyone any profit otherwise would it. & being realistic here - of course big pharm companies are profit driven, but they also fund research, which ultimately needs to have some demand, thus of some use, or no one would bother in the first place!

    specific examples of "bad" conventional Drs due to their bedside manner.. fine. (you are aware you can change your GP until you get one you're happy with? or report them if you think they've behaved inappropriately/unprofessionally.) but there are also the examples of 'natural medicine' quacks who exploit people for profit with 'treatments' that aren't even evidence based or proven to be safe..

    your complaints about lack of time from conventional doctors are structural ones. i don't think the NHS is perfect either, but the apparent lack of staff or funding is hardly the inherent fault of "conventional medicine". & if people are prepared to pay more at the point of service, then perhaps they can have their "hour of time" regardless of what's actually necessary, that all wonderful natural practitioners are "trained to provide".

    & i don't think discussing conspiracy theories as to secret suppressed research probably won't be very fruitful in a serious discussion.

    (Original post by Weejimmie)
    ...who will provide psychological reassurance while the allegedly cold-blooded cold-hearted professionals cure the actual illnesses.
    the 'doctors of tomorrow' should be able to manage both apparently. lots of "communication skills" practise & psychology/sociology. :p:
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    Remember, there is no such thing as 'Natural Medicine'. If we use something naturally derived to treat an illness, such as a herbal remedy, I can gurantee that herb isn't around for our benefit. It didn't grow to be a medicine, we just use it as one.

    And as these herbal remedies aren't designed for a specific ailment unlike conventional drugs, the effects are gonna be less predictable and less effective.

    Also, I don't see how homeopathy and especially accupuncture can be considered natural at all. There's nothing natural about sticking needles into yourself.

    He said that Conventional Medicine treats the symptoms rather than getting down to the root of the problem as Natural Medicine does.
    Of course, some conventional medicine treats symptoms simply as there's nothing else doctors can do or you're gonna get over the disease anyway (lemsip anyone?). However I gurantee most succesful modern treatments try their best to target the root causes of illness. But I guess that all depends what your view on the cause of illness is.

    If you think it's something caused by a scientifically shown problem such as bacterial or viral infection then you'd agree convential, modern medicine, is the way to go. If you think it's down to some scientifically unsound and antiquated ramblings about imbalances in energy then you're gonna say something like accupuncture is a better treatment.

    He also said that Conventional Medicine uses drugs which are difficult for the body to metabolise and often leads to more problems in the longterm and harmful side effects.
    It's true some drugs do have a range of side effects, but that's merely down to the inherent complexity of the body meaning the results of introducing a chemical can't always be predicted. Whereas targetted conventional drugs attempt to limit side-effects by being as targetted as possible herbal remedies do not, and my belief of why you see so little side-effects is because the drugs don't do much to start with.

    His view on Conventional Medicine was: If there's something wrong with you, take drugs. If that doesn't help you gotta operate and cut something out
    And what is his approach?

    Afterall, Conventional Medicine has only been around for 150 years whereas Natural Medicine has been around for over 5000 years.
    That is a poor argument. People in the past have been ignorant of bacteria, viruses, mutations and various other causes of disease that we know about today. Just because something has been around for a while doesn't mean it has more credability.

    However, I would like to close on the fact that a lot of medicines have come from nature, and it'd be wrong to right off nature as an important source of healing chemicals. However, treating the body like some kind of mystical device that goes wrong when we get 'bad energy' is defiantley wrong when science has shown us exactly what happens.
    • Thread Starter
    Offline

    1
    ReputationRep:
    as these herbal remedies aren't designed for a specific ailment unlike conventional drugs, the effects are gonna be less predictable and less effective.
    good point!

    I don't see how homeopathy and especially accupuncture can be considered natural at all. There's nothing natural about sticking needles into yourself.
    Well, it's natural in the sense that you don't use any SYNTHETIC chemicals etc.

    If you think it's down to some scientifically unsound and antiquated ramblings about imbalances in energy then you're gonna say something like accupuncture is a better treatment.
    Science is not complete. We don't know everything. Especially in the field of Medicine. Science has not yet explained exactly what it is that makes us alive. I believe that there is a whole undiscovered science waiting to be discovered which explains what give us life - probably some kind of life-giving energy. How else can one explain the life-force in us all?

    Just because something has been around for a while doesn't mean it has more credability.
    I disagree. Surely if something had no value and didn't work, it wouldn't have lasted as long. Also, the longer a subject has been around the longer its had to be perfected.
    Offline

    18
    (Original post by tweetsy85)
    I recently went to a lecture on Natural Medicine (eg Homeopathy, Herbal Medicine, Nutrition, Chinese Medicine, Acupuncture etc...) and the lecturer I had had a REALLY strong view that Conventional Medicine should be avoided at all costs.

    He said that Conventional Medicine treats the symptoms rather than getting down to the root of the problem as Natural Medicine does. He also said that Conventional Medicine uses drugs which are difficult for the body to metabolise and often leads to more problems in the longterm and harmful side effects. His view on Conventional Medicine was: If there's something wrong with you, take drugs. If that doesn't help you gotta operate and cut something out :eek:

    This lecturer was really convincing in his arguments and it really made me wonder if we are trusting Conventional Medicine more than we should be. Afterall, Conventional Medicine has only been around for 150 years whereas Natural Medicine has been around for over 5000 years.
    the lecturer should bear in mind that until 150 years ago the age expectancy was less than 50 years of age.

    conventional medicine is based entirely on natural medicine.
    The anti-malarial drugs you take? based on quinine - a chemical found in indian tonic water - soemthing they drank tostave off malaria.
    Aspirin? a tablet form of the active chemical in willow bark that treated headaches for so many years.


    natural medicine was fantastic in its day - the monks new natural remedies that would astound us in their ingenuity. But no one who does natural medicine these days has an iota of the skill or knowledge that these people had hundreds of years ago.
    Offline

    18
    (Original post by Mittal)
    That is very true, the majority of Doctors are in a hurry and always rush the patients, my Doctor does that

    But when I was refferred to this Maxillo surgeon for my braces, the surgeon was a very good female doctor, knew my name and once I told her my interests and hobbies, she remembered them after a 6 month later appointment.
    I was very impressed and intrigued, how different the Doctor was
    hmmm, would it disappoint you to know you were tricked somewhat..?
    how cana doctor possibly remember personal details of one out of hundreds of people they see a month..?
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by tweetsy85)
    Well, it's natural in the sense that you don't use any chemicals etc.
    Fair in the case of accupuncture, but it can't be said of the other treatments you suggest.

    Science is not complete. We don't know everything. Especially in the field of Medicine. Science has not yet explained exactly what it is that makes us alive. I believe that there is a whole undiscovered science waiting to be discovered which explains what give us life - probably some kind of life-giving energy. How else can one explain the life-force in us all?
    Who says we even have a life-force? It's okay you have your believes, sure, but they shouldn't undermine fact.


    I disagree. Surely if something had no value and didn't work, it wouldn't have lasted as long. Also, the longer a subject has been around the longer its had to be perfected.
    Not necessarily. Plant extracts have been used in medicine, sure, and they do have value. But they are no where near as potent, as purified, tested and designed as modern drugs. I mean, just look how average lifespans have skyrocketed, how mortality from disease has decreased rapidly. You can't say drugs haven't had a better effect. Also the placebo effect has a value of its own.
    Offline

    18
    (Original post by frost105)
    There was an interesting artcle on the use of alternative methods after the treatment of cancer that seemed to have very good results. personally I think there is room for convential and natural treatments in medecine and that a patient whould have a choice however in serious illnesses like cancer then convential treatments have had a considerable benefit in survival rates.
    like the coffee enema one..? HA!
    alot of natural medicine 'rememdies' are a fad going on about toxins and rubbish like that.

    i hate it sooooo mcuh.
    liek that damned dr gillian woman.
    toxin TOXIN!? name one ruddy toxin in the body woman!
    Dr my arse...
    Offline

    0
    (Original post by Mittal)
    knew my name and once I told her my interests and hobbies, she remembered them after a 6 month later appointment.
    I was very impressed and intrigued, how different the Doctor was
    On your 1st visit, the assistant typed your interests and hobbies into your file .

    Then, on your next visit, 5 minutes before you walk into the office, the doctor says to the assistant "What's this *******'s 1st name, and what are his hobbies and interests".
    Offline

    18
    (Original post by Douglas)
    On your 1st visit, the assistant typed your interests and hobbies into your file .

    Then, on your next visit, 5 minutes before you walk into the office, the doctor says to the assistant "What's this *******'s 1st name, and what are his hobbies and interests".
    pretty much.
    like i said its a trick. when you take the history you ask (in the social history part) wyhat sports/activities they enjoy.

    in the same way if u are checking for allergies you ask about pets.

    hence if the doc says 'hows your labrador' they didn't remember you had a dog because you are O so such a memoable person and they are soooo nice because they have a ridiculously good memory. they know it because when you were asked about pets for animal allergies you said you had a labrador.
    Offline

    0
    ReputationRep:
    (Original post by Douglas)
    On your 1st visit, the assistant typed your interests and hobbies into your file .

    Then, on your next visit, 5 minutes before you walk into the office, the doctor says to the assistant "What's this *******'s 1st name, and what are his hobbies and interests".
    damn you careless fool, always analysing for reasons.

    Now why the hell would a Doctor want to note down my interests and hobbies? My name yes, but interests and hobbies? :rolleyes: and if thats so, she must be doing it for many pateints which would not be possible.

    The Doctor is well trained and I'm sure she has a very good memory.
    To mention further, while she was looking at my teeth and X-rays, she explained precisely what each thing on the X-ray showed, and how the braces will be fit in and the reason for all the procedures ... now that, I suspect, all Doctors won't do.
 
 
 
Poll
Black Friday: Yay or Nay?
Useful resources

The Student Room, Get Revising and Marked by Teachers are trading names of The Student Room Group Ltd.

Register Number: 04666380 (England and Wales), VAT No. 806 8067 22 Registered Office: International House, Queens Road, Brighton, BN1 3XE

Write a reply...
Reply
Hide
Reputation gems: You get these gems as you gain rep from other members for making good contributions and giving helpful advice.